Classical Civilization

Jo O

I'm thinking about taking classical civilization in arts, can anyone tell me what its like?

Ballisong

Check out this webcast from some of the staff, I found it helpful.

http://www.nuigalway.ie/faculties_departments/arts/webcasts.html

spinandscribble

prof brian arkins ftw. legend just wait for his 'sexual love'!!! stansbury, mr cheerful, one of nicest fella's thats ever taught me. Herring, great lecturer, always there for a chat if theres a problem and he's got a sense of humour.

I miss the classics already *sigh*

Lockstep

I started it last year thinking it would be all Greek mythology, Roman warfare etc.

I was quickly relieved of that notion, far more about Classical culture.
just a heads up.

leninbenjamin

kickoutthejams wrote: »

I started it last year thinking it would be all Greek mythology, Roman warfare etc.

I was quickly relieved of that notion, far more about Classical culture.
just a heads up.

would the clue not be in the name?

Lockstep

leninbenjamin wrote: »

would the clue not be in the name?

Not really, I figured "civilization" would involve a lot on the importance of their military and religion, rather than plays and writing.

spinandscribble

those come up in the other years.

Lockstep

Aye, but a year of their culture wouldn't be much fun.

I thought it would be about their "civilization", y'know, expansion and rule etc.

spinandscribble

depends on your definition of the word i guess. I do know the culture is very important in being able to understand the civilisation.

medeame

kickoutthejams wrote: »

Aye, but a year of their culture wouldn't be much fun.

I thought it would be about their "civilization", y'know, expansion and rule etc.

when dr herring got passed over for head of dept, altho he held acting head for 18 months, capably and wonderfully, a new guy named clark came in and the classics dept ceased almost.
all u get now is medievilism, nothing to do with 5th century Athens or the roman republic and empire.
dr peacock got dropped to, but went to history, so thankfully, you can still get this excellent hisorical content of classical civilisations if you chose history.

i do not beleive there is any classics anymore, Brian arkins is the last great classicist, and he retires next year. even stansbury only teaches medievil latin, again, nothing whatsoever to do with classical latin, past taught by now retired prof john madden, who was a gent and a scholar. Indeed. Herring, Peacock, Madden and Arkins were the last of the great classical teachers. What is left is a skellaton crew teaching medievilism and pretending it is classical civilisation.

my advice is take history, because, how on earth can the classics dept call poems of gilgamesh and medievil approx 300 to 600 AD latin anything whatsoever to do with classical era that would have been 800 - dark ages to 500 BC classical greek and 300 bc to mid 100 AD, julioclaudian era? It is a total disgrace that NUIG lets this dept do this, teach this and blatently abolish classic civilisations without consulting staff who gave years and dedication to the Classics dept, and without consulting students, especially last years final year and second year, who got this medievilism dumped on them.
Fancy doing 1st year foundation greek and roman, 2nd year greek then missing the roman empire and republic out!! ridiculous.
Now many final year students are having to leave for new universities to complete and MA, because how can you have classical civilisations without an ancient historian of this period and without a classical civilisations latinist of this important period

As for the beginning and very foundation of the classical period, 5th century Athens, time of Pericles and the Spartan, Greek wars, literature of sophocles, euripides etc, and the language and general ancient history of the Greeks, which is imperative to any classical studies, has been dropped altogether. Ancient Greece was the starting block, early history of homer and thucydides, battles with the Persian empire, the start of Hellenism with Alexandser the great - all gone!!!!!!

in short:
THERE IS NO CLASSIC CIVILISATIONS AT NUIG ANYMORE.

Lockstep

spinandscribble wrote: »

depends on your definition of the word i guess. I do know the culture is very important in being able to understand the civilisation.

I figured the approach would be far more on the civilization: how people lived, social, political life etc, rather than the culture. For me, culture is a secondary aspect.

spinandscribble

medeame wrote: »

when dr herring got passed over for head of dept, altho he held acting head for 18 months, capably and wonderfully, a new guy named clark came in and the classics dept ceased almost.
all u get now is medievilism, nothing to do with 5th century Athens or the roman republic and empire.
dr peacock got dropped to, but went to history, so thankfully, you can still get this excellent hisorical content of classical civilisations if you chose history.

i do not beleive there is any classics anymore, Brian arkins is the last great classicist, and he retires next year. even stansbury only teaches medievil latin, again, nothing whatsoever to do with classical latin, past taught by now retired prof john madden, who was a gent and a scholar. Indeed. Herring, Peacock, Madden and Arkins were the last of the great classical teachers. What is left is a skellaton crew teaching medievilism and pretending it is classical civilisation.

my advice is take history, because, how on earth can the classics dept call poems of gilgamesh and medievil approx 300 to 600 AD latin anything whatsoever to do with classical era that would have been 800 - dark ages to 500 BC classical greek and 300 bc to mid 100 AD, julioclaudian era? It is a total disgrace that NUIG lets this dept do this, teach this and blatently abolish classic civilisations without consulting staff who gave years and dedication to the Classics dept, and without consulting students, especially last years final year and second year, who got this medievilism dumped on them.
Fancy doing 1st year foundation greek and roman, 2nd year greek then missing the roman empire and republic out!! ridiculous.
Now many final year students are having to leave for new universities to complete and MA, because how can you have classical civilisations without an ancient historian of this period and without a classical civilisations latinist of this important period

As for the beginning and very foundation of the classical period, 5th century Athens, time of Pericles and the Spartan, Greek wars, literature of sophocles, euripides etc, and the language and general ancient history of the Greeks, which is imperative to any classical studies, has been dropped altogether. Ancient Greece was the starting block, early history of homer and thucydides, battles with the Persian empire, the start of Hellenism with Alexandser the great - all gone!!!!!!

in short:
THERE IS NO CLASSIC CIVILISATIONS AT NUIG ANYMORE.

just so everyones aware, arkins was on a sabatical last year and has will returnthis year. at least thats what he told us he'd be doing.


Clarke is taking the department in a new direction which most of the classical world has been doing for the last few years, thats what i was warned.

i don't like it either but its believed by most that the nuig classical dept, due to the dropping numbers, are being made into a ancient studies course along with celtic civ. sad now

and everyone misses peacock best lecturer ever.

spinandscribble

kickoutthejams wrote: »

I figured the approach would be far more on the civilization: how people lived, social, political life etc, rather than the culture. For me, culture is a secondary aspect.

that definition of civilisation would be my definition of culture. its all the same to me

Lockstep

spinandscribble wrote: »

and everyone misses peacock best lecturer ever.

He's in history now.
Great man, comes into the lecture with a gladius
"Right, this is my overcompensating Freudian yoke"

"Sexual deviance, powerlust and avarice....but enough about me, let's get onto the Roman Empire.

spinandscribble wrote: »

that definition of civilisation would be my definition of culture. its all the same to me

It'd differ for me. I'd view the army/religion etc as aspects which would influence culture but would be the backbone of the civilization.

brianthebard

I disagree kotj, what you are describing is military history, when we talk about politics, society, etc, as a single entity, we call it culture.

spinandscribble

kickoutthejams wrote: »

He's in history now.
Great man, comes into the lecture with a gladius
"Right, this is my overcompensating Freudian yoke"

"Sexual deviance, powerlust and avarice....but enough about me, let's get onto the Roman Empire.

yeah but my lectures clashed with his this year. at least i had him for two years *sigh*

what was great about him was that he really could make anything interesting and put you in a good mood because he had a good humour. but he didn't dumb down the course, he wasn't a ease marker but a fair one. he was definitely the easiest lecturer i've ever had to talk to. all round good chap. i'll always remember him wearing the sign we made for him "will do classics for pies" after he left the dept at the end of year party lol

peacock not being kept on as staff made alot of people angry and dishearted. Many lost their fate in nuig classics and the new regime. It was a plain injustice that the lecturer that increased the student acount by 40% was tossed aside. theres a lot of nitty gritty involved in what happened that isn't right to go into online but lets just say it would make you sick.

but with the likes of arkins, herring and stansbury if i was in first year again, i'd still study classics. i'm just glad and proud to among the final students to study under Madden, Peacock, Arkins and Herring.

medeame

spinandscribble wrote: »

just so everyones aware, arkins was on a sabatical last year and has will returnthis year. at least thats what he told us he'd be doing.


Clarke is taking the department in a new direction which most of the classical world has been doing for the last few years, thats what i was warned.

i don't like it either but its believed by most that the nuig classical dept, due to the dropping numbers, are being made into a ancient studies course along with celtic civ. sad now

and everyone misses peacock best lecturer ever.

New direction 'my left foot' !! numbers down, bumbs on seats, yes very much down since clark arrived, full and boyant and interesting when messrs peacock, herring, arkins and madden teaching.
Ancient studies bhaaa humbug!!
Go to any university of note, take our own UCD, and see what an excellent classics department they have, with REAL classic era being taught, covering everything, military, artistic, cultural, literature etc about the ancient Greek and Roman civilisation (the very foundation of classical studies) or indeed, look at the prospectus in the UK universities, where classics is not only holding its own, but making a come back.

I have no problem with ancient history, but i do if you do not have an ancient historian to teach it !!! ridiculous set up all together at nuig, just simply medeivil studies masked as classics.

My humble opinion of course.

medeame

spinandscribble wrote: »

yeah but my lectures clashed with his this year. at least i had him for two years *sigh*

peacock not being kept on as staff made alot of people angry and dishearted. Many lost their fate in nuig classics and the new regime. It was a plain injustice that the lecturer that increased the student acount by 40% was tossed aside. theres a lot of nitty gritty involved in what happened that isn't right to go into online but lets just say it would make you sick.

I think people have every right to go into it online, as the university ignored official letters from the students via the classics society, when they dumped herring, and, all the complaints to clark in writing via student union went practically unheaded as he all but terrorised the students into owning up for going about it the right way and putting their concerns in writting.
NAMES!! he demanded of who? had complained about the lack of classical studies on his course.
So, why should we not voice our opinions online, we have free will or a democracy, haa u would think so wouldnt u... read on macduff...

Clark was a disgrace forcing people to put their hands up in the classroom and declaire, who? signed the letter, even the gards wouldnt ask u that. In my opinion i think he should have been diciplined for bullying.

So much for democracy, NUIG a student centred university and fair play, after that, the poor students concerened were probably too scared they would get bad marks that they dropped the whole thing.

I would take a bet not one of them stayed on for an MA.

spinandscribble

i don't like the new direction either and like i said its just a excuse to break the dept down to get rid of it. nuig DID need language as part of the course but they needed beowulf instead of alexander like a bullet to the head!

i was among those final year students that had to go to the student union over the "name taking and i'm fully aware of what happened with regard to THAT. i've been told by members and ex members of the dept that what exactly went on with peacocks kicking out, and it makes me sick but as a faceless person on the internet i'm not going to spread stories as that just seems a bit stupid and i wouldn't be taken seriously. really, noone would, its so shocking.

yes, none of the final years took up the ma. unsurprisingly....*sarcasm*

were you in my class or DCU? I'm confused?

medeame

hi spinand...
I stand by everything i said about the classics dept good and bad, i would b preparred 2 swear in a court room, let that tell you how involved i was in classics at NUIG.

i dont do tell tales, or repeats, i know first hand as you do and a little more besides. I would never put in writing anything that was not true.

The good of this is, peacock is still available in history, and arkins is back from his sebatical, the bad news is, some history clashes with classics topics, and arkins is the last of the great classicists, i really hope a big collection and party are on the cards for him, he deserves it.

spinandscribble

i'm 99% sure i know who you are and i know you know me too

i don't doubt what you've written for one moment but as you're aware, there are things that went on in the dept that was quite serious and unjust and personally, i feel unease about talking about them online:o. if things are said in confidence, under the understanding that they're not suppose to be spread around, i'm not going to talk about them in person or on the net:cool:. we certainly havn't said anything that was a secret anyway though so nothing to worry about ! lol

medeame

spinandscribble wrote: »

i'm 99% sure i know who you are and i know you know me too

i don't doubt what you've written for one moment but as you're aware, there are things that went on in the dept that was quite serious and unjust and personally, i feel unease about talking about them online:o. if things are said in confidence, under the understanding that they're not suppose to be spread around, i'm not going to talk about them in person or on the net:cool:. we certainly havn't said anything that was a secret anyway though so nothing to worry about ! lol

As you say, nothing said that isnt true

clirion

First week of real lectures, and i can say I did more classics in Philosophy than I did in classics.

I did classics for the leaving cert so I thought I had a good idea of what would be coming up for the classics course.

The last classics lecture I was at, Clarke spent 40min(i actually made it my business to check this) comparing the tower of nuig with oxford one, then eventually medieval comparisons. Eventually it did get to classics, but for me, i found the focus was defiantly more on ancient studies.

Stuff like Epic of gilgamesh, Táin bo and having to learn latin/greek are what turn me off classics, so i'll prolly only do it for first year even tho Im very passionate about it(well the leaving cert style).

And wtf is with getting rid of alexander? I know alot of ppl find him boring and all, but im fairly sure he had more of a impact on history than the likes of Tain bó, and would be much more classics orientated

clirion

all this talk of creepy secrets is kinda scary....makes me wonder what i've gotten myself into lol

medeame

clirion wrote: »

all this talk of creepy secrets is kinda scary....makes me wonder what i've gotten myself into lol

there are no secrets, it is all in the open, as you said in your post, there are no classics being taught in nuig and my previous posts supports that too.

why dont u try history where you can at least get the roman stuff.

and yes, Alexander the Great had a huge impact on the hellenistic world that followed 5th century Athens classical civilisations period, his generals devided up every country, and land he had conquered, and that was the start of the ptolomay's in Egypt that Cleaopatra descended from, thank God at least you can go to the library and read the extensive classics literature there.

clirion

I was lucky enough to have a fantastic classics teacher for secondary school, first time i did alex i hated him soooo much. But on revising em(and actually reading plutarch/arrian instead of pretending to) I kinda fell inlove with the whole story.

I' made a pact with myself that someday i have to at least attempt his trek from Macedonia, to thebes hellespont etc. I was hoping that classics would kinda help me with studying him in more detail, but seems i'll have to do that on my own time.


on side note, maybe i'll learn more about the gothic style of the UCG quad part of the uni, on monday!

medeame

clirion wrote: »

I' made a pact with myself that someday i have to at least attempt his trek from Macedonia, to thebes QUOTE]

Wow that is an a great dream, hope u do it one day.

i have Alexander literature and books u can borrow if u pm me and promise to look after them.

clirion

That is like the second nicest thing someone on boards.ie has said to me, tyvm I wish i was a really avid reader and all that, but im a poor reader ;;

atm im reading antigone, then i have to read the republic again(oh dear god save me now....) then i have to get good at psychology to be top 100.... stupid long first year of like...8 year path to stupid career /grumble /grumble

medeame

clirion wrote: »

That is like the second nicest thing someone on boards.ie has said to me, tyvm I wish i was a really avid reader and all that, but im a poor reader ;;

atm im reading antigone, then i have to read the republic again(oh dear god save me now....) then i have to get good at psychology to be top 100.... stupid long first year of like...8 year path to stupid career /grumble /grumble

clirion, if u think u can trek thru macadonia you can get thru antigone, great play, av notes on it 2 if u need them. keep at it, am sure you will do well

clirion

I got this really fancy book(almost regret that i bought it as a present for someone, and the fact that it was 25 euro lol) in Charlie byrnes, its got all the big greek tragedies, in this really cool green book. Just at the part of Antigone where Creon's son goes on about how hes leaving forever and what not.

Merci beaucoup for the notes, that would be great

Lockstep

brianthebard wrote: »

I disagree kotj, what you are describing is military history, when we talk about politics, society, etc, as a single entity, we call it culture.

Military history as an aspect of the civilization. Given the prevalence of the army and empire in both Greek and Roman history I'd view it as important.

Writing and drama, which seemed to make up the bulk of the course from the intro lecture, would be smaller aspects, in my mind of civilization.

medeame

kickoutthejams wrote: »

Military history as an aspect of the civilization. Given the prevalence of the army and empire in both Greek and Roman history I'd view it as important.

Writing and drama, which seemed to make up the bulk of the course from the intro lecture, would be smaller aspects, in my mind of civilization.

You are both correct, the past most excellent Classic Civilisations dept covered all, both military which was an all important and equally tied up with daily society apect and also the art, archaeology and literature, equally what made these people who and what they were.......
sadly, all but gone now, Classic Civ had died a death at NUIG, beaten, downtrodden and destroyed, just like the Greeks and ancent Romans with not a triumph insight.

Messers Arkins, Madden, Peacock and especially Herring, should be given medals at least for all the shape and sucess of classic civ before it was annihilated by Gilgamesh!!!!!!!!!!!

Lockstep

medeame wrote: »

the past most excellent Classic Civilisations dept covered all, both military which was an all important and equally tied up with daily society apect and also the art, archaeology and literature, equally what made these people who and what they were.......

Damn, that's exactly the kind of thing I'd be interested in.

medeame

kickoutthejams wrote: »

Damn, that's exactly the kind of thing I'd be interested in.

I know Kickout, you and hundreds off others.

Well, you could all write to Kevin Barry Dean of Arts and ask him to reinstate Classic Civilisations as it has been run very successfully for many years.

It is YOUR uni, and it is YOUR education.

Do it through the education officer or president at the students union if you wish, no names are needed it is in confidence. It gives you a good voice without being victimised.