Carry on of RDF personnel

eroo

This is a rant,and solely a rant.I haven't been this enraged by something I've seen on the internet in quite some time.

I was looking around on bebo and found some very interesting stuff.Now,I was under the impression that posting up photos of yourself and your mates in uniform was prohibited,no?

What I found literally makes me twitch with anger,and I actually feel ashamed to be in the same organisation as those that caused my rage.

I came across a page dedicated to recruit camp.I'm not providing links,but if you want to see it,just search for it on bebo.

There are entire albums of RDF personnel posing and laughing for camera in uniform.I genuinely would have thought that it was an Irish college photobook were the uniforms not so obvious.One photo showed them hanging out with ear muffs around their necks,obviously just off the range.Now,if these photos are for your personal photo books at home,for you to get all nostalgic over in 20 years time,fine.But,to put them up on one of the most popular internet sites,for all to see takes the ****ing biscuit and eats it.

After seeing this,I find myself agreeing with all those who say RDF is more a social club than military organisation. I never believed that until now.I honestly believe that this sort of bull**** is the root cause that the vast majority of RDF will NEVER be held in high regard by anyone.It might as well be the FCA,because it hasn't changed.Equipment and SOP's etc may have,but the people that make it up have not.It was a joke in my Dad's time when he served with it,unfortunately it seems,it still is.:(:mad:

King Ludvig

Post like this dont help it either though

I know what you mean, ive seen it on bebo too, and I just hope its something that'll be cracked down on at some stage. I dont think theres a problem with people having pictures of themselves in uniform, provided a certain etiquette is retained. Its all about public image IMO, some people have no cop on and should be discharged from the DF.

kermit_ie

That would be all well and good if there weren't entire photo albums of PDF personnel doing exactly the same thing, on the same site.

eroo

King Ludvig wrote: »

Post like this dont help it either though

I know what you mean, ive seen it on bebo too, and I just hope its something that'll be cracked down on at some stage. I dont think theres a problem with people having pictures of themselves in uniform, provided a certain etiquette is retained. Its all about public image IMO, some people have no cop on and should be discharged from the DF.

There should be no photos whatsoever imo.You don't see PDF posting up pics of ''us and da boyz'' in uniform and looking like bags of ****!

As regards my post,no it doesn't help.But neither does the carry on of some RDF personnel.I believe Mairt once posted that himself and some of his colleagues were annoyed to see RDF personnel on way into barracks with smock open or beret not worn.Same thing applies here really,except everyone can see it over and over.

eroo

kermit_ie wrote: »

That would be all well and good if there weren't entire photo albums of PDF personnel doing exactly the same thing, on the same site.

Well I don't see them creating 'group' pages full of those sort of photos or pages dedicated to 'Fianoglach' etc

minidazzler

Maybe this should be merged with Mairt's thread of a similar nature.

The FCA was created on 1 April 1946. Obviously an elaborate April Fool's joke. The RDF carries the same mentality, and you know what. There is nothing that a lowly 2/3* can do about it. You will be branded an outsider and ostrasized(sp) if you speak up about it.

Really don't go back to your Unit complaining to others because you will not enjoy the outcome. I have witnessed something similar and did nothing to stop it straight after I finished my 2* training and I did nothing to stop it. Worst thing was it was done by my bestfriend who was trying to be one of the lads by mocking this particular fella who treated the organisation like it was something resembling a military.

Now that I am in it 2 years I won't stand by and watch that type of thing happen again. The guy who it happened to originally transferred out and the same sh1t happened in the next unit he went to because some of the lads in my unit told buddies in that unit.

BTW the people who carried out all this ****e were all in it the same length of time as me and consider themselves proper hard military men.


To the person on here in my Unit, you know who you are, DO NOT REPEAT THIS!

concussion

Eroo, I fully agree with you. Posting photos of 'da lads' or whatever messin about (and usually pointing rifles at eachother) does nothing for the reputation of the RDF :mad:

Snakes

eroo wrote: »

I honestly believe that this sort of bull**** is the root cause that the vast majority of RDF will NEVER be held in high regard by anyone.

Wouldn't say this is the root cause of the problem. BEBO and the likes have only been around 3 years, FCA wasn't held in a very high regard by many well before that. Granted it doesn't make it look any more professional, but to say it's the root cause of the disrespect the rdf recieves in some quarters is overstepping the mark a bit.

Rew

The PDF do it as well its not just an RDF thing.

Poccington

Rew wrote: »

The PDF do it as well its not just an RDF thing.

We don't dedicate whole pages to it.

Or talk about how good the craic is going on camp getting pissed with the lads. Of course ya can't beat the good old stuff along the lines of "I'm in the Army part time and get paid to shoot guns and drink, it's bleedin deadly!" that you'll find on Bebo :rolleyes:

minidazzler

Poccington wrote: »

We don't dedicate whole pages to it.

Or talk about how good the craic is going on camp getting pissed with the lads. Of course ya can't beat the good old stuff along the lines of "I'm in the Army part time and get paid to shoot guns and drink, it's bleedin deadly!" that you'll find on Bebo :rolleyes:

Worst thing is they are too dumb to tell the difference between a Gun and a Rifle and refer to all firearms as "Guns"

Feckers unless they are Arty or ADA they are not shooting Guns!!

bunny shooter

eroo wrote: »

........It might as well be the FCA,because it hasn't changed.Equipment and SOP's etc may have,but the people that make it up have not.It was a joke in my Dad's time when he served with it,unfortunately it seems,it still is.:(:mad:

I doubt you even served in it when it was the FCA so therefore, shut the f**k up :mad: My old "FCA" unit, now demobilised in the re-org was much better than the load of sh**te there now, and yes I'm still serving, although f**k knows why cause the last few years have seen the orgainsation descend into a complete and utter farce. The standard of recruits we're expected to train is a joke.

christophicus

I'vs not seen the photos you are on about, but if they are just taking photos of people posing thats not too bad imo, and certainly not limited to the RDF, I know sound lads in the TA that do the same.

martinr5232

eroo wrote: »

This is a rant,and solely a rant.I haven't been this enraged by something I've seen on the internet in quite some time.

I was looking around on bebo and found some very interesting stuff.Now,I was under the impression that posting up photos of yourself and your mates in uniform was prohibited,no?

What I found literally makes me twitch with anger,and I actually feel ashamed to be in the same organisation as those that caused my rage.

I came across a page dedicated to recruit camp.I'm not providing links,but if you want to see it,just search for it on bebo.

There are entire albums of RDF personnel posing and laughing for camera in uniform.I genuinely would have thought that it was an Irish college photobook were the uniforms not so obvious.One photo showed them hanging out with ear muffs around their necks,obviously just off the range.Now,if these photos are for your personal photo books at home,for you to get all nostalgic over in 20 years time,fine.But,to put them up on one of the most popular internet sites,for all to see takes the ****ing biscuit and eats it.

After seeing this,I find myself agreeing with all those who say RDF is more a social club than military organisation. I never believed that until now.I honestly believe that this sort of bull**** is the root cause that the vast majority of RDF will NEVER be held in high regard by anyone.It might as well be the FCA,because it hasn't changed.Equipment and SOP's etc may have,but the people that make it up have not.It was a joke in my Dad's time when he served with it,unfortunately it seems,it still is.:(:mad:

Eroo your in the reserve a wet week and nearly everything you have posted is putting the reserve down if your not whinging about fittness your giving out about lads putting pictures on bebo or whatever.

If your that worried about the pictures bring it to the attention of your cadre staff through the chain of command dont be highlighting it on a public forum.

I personally have no problem with pictures on forums as long as they dont break any laws if it shows a few lads having a bit of craic so be it as long as there is no messing with weapons or security breaches.
And before you say im soft I have reported people before for breaking rules.

So basicaly if you dont like the reserve LEAVE if not shut up whinging or grow a pair and do something about it.:mad:

eroo

martinr5232 wrote: »

Eroo your in the reserve a wet week and nearly everything you have posted is putting the reserve down if your not whinging about fittness your giving out about lads putting pictures on bebo or whatever.

If your that worried about the pictures bring it to the attention of your cadre staff through the chain of command dont be highlighting it on a public forum.

I personally have no problem with pictures on forums as long as they dont break any laws if it shows a few lads having a bit of craic so be it as long as there is no messing with weapons or security breaches.
And before you say im soft I have reported people before for breaking rules.

So basicaly if you dont like the reserve LEAVE if not shut up whinging or grow a pair and do something about it.:mad:

Well,I tend to get annoyed when I see some of the eejits who form RDF disrespecting the organisation they serve in.I'm not on about anyone in my unit tbh.Look at RDF personnel on Bebo or if you meet one of them on a night out.They couldn't give a **** about it.''Oh it's great craic altogether,2 weeks piss up and you get paid and get to shoot!''.Nothing would fill me with anymore pride than to put on the uniform of my country.That matters very little to most,but it means a lot to me.

Maybe the mods might consider amalgamating this with 'Should we scrap the RDF' thread?

Why should I leave?Also,I'm not whinging.I am complaining about an issue.I put this issue up for discussion with a rant thrown in;just want to see what people think and how or if they think things can be changed.

eroo

bunny shooter wrote: »

I doubt you even served in it when it was the FCA so therefore, shut the f**k up :mad: My old "FCA" unit, now demobilised in the re-org was much better than the load of sh**te there now, and yes I'm still serving, although f**k knows why cause the last few years have seen the orgainsation descend into a complete and utter farce. The standard of recruits we're expected to train is a joke.

Where did I once say I served in the FCA?I didn't,so don't tell me to 'shut the **** up' please.

I'm going on what my dad told me about his years in FCA,as well as my grandads 3 years in it as an NCO during it's first 3 years in operation.I'm also going on what other people who were in the FCA told me;some of them are still in RDF.I don't claim to be nor am I an expert on FCA,but from what I've been told the attitude of most people hasn't changed.It's still seen as '2 weeks drinking during the summer'. That's why my dad left,and my grandad too.

concussion

eroo wrote: »

Well,I tend to get annoyed when I see some of the eejits who form RDF disrespecting the organisation they serve in.I'm not on about anyone in my unit tbh.Look at RDF personnel on Bebo or if you meet one of them on a night out.They couldn't give a **** about it.''Oh it's great craic altogether,2 weeks piss up and you get paid and get to shoot!''.Nothing would fill me with anymore pride than to put on the uniform of my country.That matters very little to most,but it means a lot to me.

Well said. The majority of stuff on Bebo is 'Im in da RDF, da reserves...i luv shootin da steyr and goin on de piss every nite. Dis is me and the boyz havin a smoke and hidin from da sarjant'.

Quite a lot also have links to paramilitary pages aswell, quite disturbing.

arybvtcw0eolkf

concussion wrote: »

Quite a lot also have links to paramilitary pages aswell, quite disturbing.

I don't use BEBO or any of those site, but if I did and found serving members of the Irish Defence Forces linking anything proscribed in this country I'd report them ASAP.

In fact, if you PM me links to a BEBO (owned by a serving member) with paramilitary links it would give me the greatest pleasure in reporting it myself.

bunny shooter

eroo wrote: »

Where did I once say I served in the FCA?I didn't,so don't tell me to 'shut the **** up' please.

I'm going on what my dad told me about his years in FCA,as well as my grandads 3 years in it as an NCO during it's first 3 years in operation.I'm also going on what other people who were in the FCA told me;some of them are still in RDF.I don't claim to be nor am I an expert on FCA,but from what I've been told the attitude of most people hasn't changed.It's still seen as '2 weeks drinking during the summer'. That's why my dad left,and my grandad too.

Well if YOU weren't in it don't talk about it to those who were. OK ?

Poccington

martinr5232 wrote: »

Eroo your in the reserve a wet week and nearly everything you have posted is putting the reserve down if your not whinging about fittness your giving out about lads putting pictures on bebo or whatever.

If your that worried about the pictures bring it to the attention of your cadre staff through the chain of command dont be highlighting it on a public forum.

I personally have no problem with pictures on forums as long as they dont break any laws if it shows a few lads having a bit of craic so be it as long as there is no messing with weapons or security breaches.
And before you say im soft I have reported people before for breaking rules.

So basicaly if you dont like the reserve LEAVE if not shut up whinging or grow a pair and do something about it.:mad:

The lad has a genuine problem with the carry on of some RDF folk... Not all of them.

For you to tell him he should leave just because he conducts himself properly and expected others to do the same, really doesn't paint you in the best light.

martinr5232

Did you not happen to read the rest of my post.

Poccington

martinr5232 wrote: »

Did you not happen to read the rest of my post.

I did indeed.

Is there some brilliant point in it that I missed?

martinr5232

Three options leave shut up or report it quiet simple really.

Seems fairly simple to me.

If he doesnt want to report them PM me a link and i will report them if needs be.

Rew

Poccington wrote: »

We don't dedicate whole pages to it.

Or talk about how good the craic is going on camp getting pissed with the lads. Of course ya can't beat the good old stuff along the lines of "I'm in the Army part time and get paid to shoot guns and drink, it's bleedin deadly!" that you'll find on Bebo :rolleyes:

Not true at all look at the clowns in Libera who staged shooting the locals? Plenty of PDF lads with bebo profiles and youtube vids. Known PDF lads doing tactics in their back gardens with airsoft guns etc. There are stories of pictures of lads getting up to all sorts overseas (that I wouldn't repeate in public) stuck up online or physical copies lying around for all to see.

The PDF think their **** doesn't stink sometimes and they can be the worst offenders. Look at the building sites, airsoft and paint ball sites and you will find plenty of PDF and RDF acting the mick in uniform.

As for that idiotic comment about guns and rilfles, I think you will find 99.999% of the population of the planet says that not just the RDF. Alot of the shoting commuinty in civvie land does the same and they know alot more about rifles/guns then 95% of the PDF and RDF.

The youtube/bebo thing is a generation of younger people who are hitting the ranks of the Army over the last 2 years and im sure the worst is still to come.

bunny shooter

Rew wrote: »

Not true at all look at the clowns in Libera who staged shooting the locals? Plenty of PDF lads with bebo profiles and youtube vids. Known PDF lads doing tactics in their back gardens with airsoft guns etc. There are stories of pictures of lads getting up to all sorts overseas (that I wouldn't repeate in public) stuck up online or physical copies lying around for all to see.

The PDF think their **** doesn't stink sometimes and they can be the worst offenders. Look at the building sites, airsoft and paint ball sites and you will find plenty of PDF and RDF acting the mick in uniform.

As for that idiotic comment about guns and rilfles, I think you will find 99.999% of the population of the planet says that not just the RDF. Alot of the shoting commuinty in civvie land does the same and they know alot more about rifles/guns then 95% of the PDF and RDF.

The youtube/bebo thing is a generation of younger people who are hitting the ranks of the Army over the last 2 years and im sure the worst is still to come.

Well said !

i-digress

concussion wrote: »

Well said. The majority of stuff on Bebo is 'Im in da RDF, da reserves...i luv shootin da steyr and goin on de piss every nite. Dis is me and the boyz havin a smoke and hidin from da sarjant'.

Quite a lot also have links to paramilitary pages aswell, quite disturbing.

Quite scary that

Manic Moran

Oh, the horrors of posting a picture of yourself in a uniform. Heaven forbid, Ireland's enemies may discover that Ireland's Army actually has people in it.

The dividing line as far as I would suggest is if it brings the forces into disrepute. If they're drunk and acting the ass, that's one thing. If they're positive and good PR, leave them be.

This applies both to the DF and RDF. Indeed, given that the RDF is reliant on the units for doing their own recruiting, it would be utterly hamstringing for them to not allow their own photos to be placed on public websites.

NTM

Leadership

Lads,

Its all a bit heavy and there is a bit to much finger pointing.

From my service days I always had the motto "Work hard play harder!". Those who serve or have served know that this kind of thing goes on so what is the problem??????

My god if bebo was around in my day then the stories would be off the wall!

m5ex9oqjawdg2i

eroo wrote: »

After seeing this,I find myself agreeing with all those who say RDF is more a social club than military organisation. I never believed that until now.I honestly believe that this sort of bull**** is the root cause that the vast majority of RDF will NEVER be held in high regard by anyone.It might as well be the FCA,because it hasn't changed.Equipment and SOP's etc may have,but the people that make it up have not.It was a joke in my Dad's time when he served with it,unfortunately it seems,it still is.:(:mad:

I resent that statement. I will always hold the organisation and it's people in high regard. The RDF gets bashed by people like you all the time, for what reason I do not know. There is a certain negative aura that has been created about the RDF which simply is not fair. So the training is not year long, nor may it be as intence, but you forget one thing mister, these people take holidays from their fulltime jobs to train from 2-6 weeks. Have a little respect will you?

I also notice how you are completely ignorant towards the PDF doing the exact same thing on bebo and facebook. Before you go on a "rant" make sure you talk about every one and not use this to target specific groups within an organisation. I think you need to chill out.


*EDIT*

Posting photos to a certain degree is completely acceptable. A section in uniform, where is the wrong in that? Nowhere is the answer. Photo's of a tac aid, or videos of tactical exercises is against regulations as far as I can remember. You know, I could understand you getting pissed, OP, if the pictures were of military personel that were completely intoxicated swinging out of lamposts... but they are not.

Also:

eroo wrote: »

Where did I once say I served in the FCA?I didn't,so don't tell me to 'shut the **** up' please.

I'm going on what my dad told me about his years in FCA,as well as my grandads 3 years in it as an NCO during it's first 3 years in operation.I'm also going on what other people who were in the FCA told me;some of them are still in RDF.I don't claim to be nor am I an expert on FCA,but from what I've been told the attitude of most people hasn't changed.It's still seen as '2 weeks drinking during the summer'. That's why my dad left,and my grandad too.

Recruits are not permitted to drink on camp, regardless of age. There is nothing wrong with having a few pints every few nights in the mess with the lads. It is most definately not a 2 week session. I am not sure what company your father served in, but I can tell you that after a days training most people are just happy to hit the sack.

Manic Moran

Paloma Flabby Palate wrote: »

IRecruits are not permitted to drink on camp, regardless of age.

Must be a relatively new rule, then. I remember hitting the Private's Mess in Aikens Barracks when I went on my Eastern Command Recruit Camp back in.. oh.. 1997 or so. As long as you were in a fit condition to be yelled at by the Corporal at Stupid-O'-Clock the next morning, there were no problems. I always thought it an eminently reasonable policy.

NTM

Poccington

Paloma Flabby Palate wrote: »

Recruits are not permitted to drink on camp, regardless of age. There is nothing wrong with having a few pints every few nights in the mess with the lads. It is most definately not a 2 week session. I am not sure what company your father served in, but I can tell you that after a days training most people are just happy to hit the sack.

I've seen a fair few Recruit platoons drinking in the mess.

There's a hell of a lot wrong with a "few pints with the lads" if it's in a training environment, especially Recruit Training. Recruits should be far too busy with getting their kit ready, UIE as well as being too bolloxed to even entertain the thoughts of drinking. Even 2 Stars and 3 Stars should have limited access to the mess if they're in a training environment. As you know, the RDF has a limited amount of FTT.... Far too much of it is wasted in trying to instruct hungover Privates who are more interested in boozing than learning how to soldier. Attitudes like "There's nothing wrong with a few pints with the lads" does nothing to improve your organisation.

r3nu4l

I've looked at some of these photos. There are a few where RDF personnel in uniform are giving the finger to the camera, there are also a couple with lads with jumpers wrapped around their heads making 'ninja' poses with the caption 'durka durka' underneath.

Not very professional. Keep those photos out of the public domain imo.

m5ex9oqjawdg2i

Well there is absolutely nothing wrong with it, whatsoever... when I say a few, I MEAN a few. Do not twist my words to work for you. I did not say binge drinking. I am not sure with who you trained, but a "training environment" in a mess? That's not right

We all know it doesn't take you half a day to get your kit sorted. It's not exactly rocket science to put it together and in most cases it is sorted before you go to camp. I know I always had my kit sorted with plenty of time to do other things.


Yes that rule is relatively new, it came into effect in '03 I think. One or two recruits will slip under the radar and get boozed up, although if they are caught they will get booted out. You say you seen a platoon of recruits drinking? Are you 100% it was alcohol? If so, there is something very wrong with that platoon and their CO. It surely wasn't tolerated in my company.

Poccington

I trained with the 5th Battalion

They're in a training environment, they shouldn't be in the mess unless they're picking up a bar or soft drink. Alcohol should be a no no, simple as.

Half a day? They shouldn't be finishing until late at night, then they should be getting their kit sorted i.e. boots polished, uniform ironed, CEFO cleaned if it's been used, their lines cleaned for inspection as well as studying. How you do all that before you go on camp is beyond me.

Yes I'm sure it was a platoon.

Duffers

I don't know about the Reservists, but for lads in full time recruit training need an outlet, and to bond socially, it's good for morale and good for team work.
Obviously not on a 'school night' though. There are lads from my old Troop who have all sorts of phots from nights out posted on various websites, from bebo to facebook, it does no harm if it is within reason.
There is a difference between that and being a **** and letting the organisation down though.

Poccington

Duffers wrote: »

I don't know about the Reservists, but for lads in full time recruit training need an outlet, and to bond socially, it's good for morale and good for team work.
Obviously not on a 'school night' though. There are lads from my old Troop who have all sorts of phots from nights out posted on various websites, from bebo to facebook, it does no harm if it is within reason.
There is a difference between that and being a **** and letting the organisation down though.

EDIT: Nevermind, different Forces.

m5ex9oqjawdg2i

That is true Duffers, there is a limit to what should be taken on photo. Acting the maggot or sensitive information should not be displayed to the public.

Poccington: The RDF train year long, although it may only be 2 hours on a thursday night with the odd weekend here and there in various locations, young minds can soak up a lot of information. So as for studying? There isn't as much to ne studied. Remember, for the two weeks you will do one course, be it GPMG, mortar or first aid. In some cases a lot of the information and training is done throughout the year, for example the TOET's. People will go over notes, but not to the extent that some may think.

As for boots, most would have two pairs. Your boots for on the "ground" and your parade boots. I know I always kept one top notch. If boots are kept in any way good shape it is not hard to spit shine them up to an acceptable condition (mirror like, that is).

CEFO is not issued in my company. Only the night before you go out on the "ground" and I can assure you, when it is issued people do not sleep until they have their kit 100% perfect. That's a really buzzing night

I also didn't mention half days, although it has been known to happen. The mess is for everyone, not just the PDF and retired PDF but all military personnel, if they are training or not. It's never going to change, I can guarantee you that.

Poccington

Oh of course, the RDF train all year but us PDF folk very rarely train. How silly of me :rolleyes:

So when they're on camp they don't learn anything new? Nothing that would involve them studying? I find that quite hard to believe. How in the name of Allah does it take 2 weeks to do the GPMG?

During Recruit Training the troops should only have 1 pair of boots.... Gives them a lot more work to do then

I never said the mess was for PDF personnel. I said troops that are in training shouldn't be using the mess for drinking.

m5ex9oqjawdg2i

Aren't all troops in a constant state of training?

"Oh of course, the RDF train all year but us PDF folk very rarely train. How silly of me"

Again your ignorance is getting the better of you. Like I said before, stop twisting my words, you are failing very hard at this. I never mentioned anything about the PDF training.

On camp a lot of practice throughout the year is put to use. I learnt a lot from my first two camps, but after that? Sorry, but you would need to be as thick as ditchwater if you need to study a lot for these courses.

Poccington

Paloma Flabby Palate wrote: »

Aren't all troops in a constant state of training?

"Oh of course, the RDF train all year but us PDF folk very rarely train. How silly of me"

Again your ignorance is getting the better of you. Like I said before, stop twisting my words, you are failing very hard at this. I never mentioned anything about the PDF training.

On camp a lot of practice throughout the year is put to use. I learnt a lot from my first two camps, but after that? Sorry, but you would need to be as thick as ditchwater if you need to study a lot for these courses.

So you covered everything in the first 2 camps you took part in? After that it was all just handy?

The way you phrased your sentence made it seem like you were saying RDF are constantly training whilst the PDF aren't. I obviously misunderstood you, my apologies.

m5ex9oqjawdg2i

No I didn't cover everything, but all the basics we did cover. You would learn something new at every camp, but the first two camps I attended were the most intense. I can only speak from experience as others may have differant views on this.

Anyway. If the dept of defence were to take action against people posting photos on bebo and videos on you-tube... christ, there would be a lot of sh!t hitting the fan if you ask me.

Poccington

The way it was explained to us in the job was that it's anything portraying the DF in a bad light.

The display of photo's isn't outlawed, just the ones showing bags of ****e or lads acting the bollox. Which is common sense really.... Something the DoD isn't used to using

eroo

Paloma Flabby Palate wrote: »

I resent that statement. I will always hold the organisation and it's people in high regard. The RDF gets bashed by people like you all the time, for what reason I do not know. There is a certain negative aura that has been created about the RDF which simply is not fair. So the training is not year long, nor may it be as intence, but you forget one thing mister, these people take holidays from their fulltime jobs to train from 2-6 weeks. Have a little respect will you?

The negative image is as a result of the 'carry on' of some personnel. RDF is supposed to be a serious military organisation. How can that image be upheld against bebo pages that have sections quoting the NCO's they had for camp, or showing them sitting around messing. It's not boy scouts. Also, I'm not bashing it, why would I wish to 'bash' a part of the Defence Forces of my country? I don't 'bash' the organistion that I joined a year ago, and wanted to join for years growing up. I am merely criticising the actions of some of it's personnel.

I also notice how you are completely ignorant towards the PDF doing the exact same thing on bebo and facebook. Before you go on a "rant" make sure you talk about every one and not use this to target specific groups within an organisation. I think you need to chill out.
Maybe they do. But I have yet to see any. I have also yet to see them start up UNOFFICIAL 'group' pages for their unit. As well as having links to 'I love Eire' pages, which are packed full of images of terrorists. So no, I won't ''chill out''.

*EDIT*

Posting photos to a certain degree is completely acceptable. A section in uniform, where is the wrong in that? Nowhere is the answer. Photo's of a tac aid, or videos of tactical exercises is against regulations as far as I can remember. You know, I could understand you getting pissed, OP, if the pictures were of military personel that were completely intoxicated swinging out of lamposts... but they are not.
Yes but they still look like Boy Scouts rather than a military organiastion
Also:



Recruits are not permitted to drink on camp, regardless of age. There is nothing wrong with having a few pints every few nights in the mess with the lads. It is most definately not a 2 week session. I am not sure what company your father served in, but I can tell you that after a days training most people are just happy to hit the sack.

''A few pints every few nights''? With that attitude, it's no wonder the organisation is the way it is. Keep your drinking to the weekends or for occasions in the mess imo.

...

Tribunius

Paloma Flabby Palate wrote: »

Well there is absolutely nothing wrong with it, whatsoever... when I say a few, I MEAN a few.

Yes there is if you are an instructor/NCO/Officer. Admittedly this only matters in a few cases i.e. recruit training, 2* to 3* training (to lesser extent).

Morpheus

So when they're on camp they don't learn anything new? Nothing that would involve them studying? I find that quite hard to believe. How in the name of Allah does it take 2 weeks to do the GPMG?

Okay lads, untwist yer knickers.

By two week course are we talking about the SF course?

Ive been trained on the weapon (not on a two week course, but over a couple of months training nights and then on camp) and in fairness all the training we (RDF) do on the GPMG is obviously not going to be to as high a level of detail and intensity that the PDF will do.

However it IS a DOD approved course and it DOES cover the basics quite well.

Im sure that the PDF will have to have the weapon down pat, their own versions of the same lessons will differ in SOME way and for the RDF guys we will just recieve notes, do as many classroom lessons as is possible on training nights and then have to study this stuff ourselves on our own time.

Im sure the PDF guys will also study outside of classrooms on the same course or be eaten alive for doing something wrong when being tested on their knowledge, handling etc.

PDF will probably get more range practice in, theres nothing can be done about that for the RDF.

Im guessing here but I'll bet my own front teeth that the PDF will train with this weapon in live fire exercises, the RDF wont, not yet anyway, maybe integrated do?

Im guessing again when I say im sure that the PDF gunners are trained to put down patterns of fire on different types of targets to assist in an attack or defence, types of bursts to use, tracer fire, night firing, ambush setup and reaction, setting up enfilades and defensive patterns with other sections eg when in patrol harbours etc, how to pick out the likely enemy approaches to your position, maybe how to carry out a low level anti aircraft role or how to attack moving vehicles and different battle scenarios. All of which the RDF simply wont get the time to do.

All of the above is just guessing on my part, ive never gotten to sit down and discuss this with a PDF gunner, I would love to have that conversation some day.

My training isnt as good as yours in respect of the above and could never hope to be, but I can point it in the direction you tell me to, range and shoot it effectively, clean repair, load, unload, safety and have done the RDF's version (under supervision of PDF cadre staff) of tactical training with the gun too.

I am also (unlike some guys) willing to carry, drag, pull, push the weapon through hell and back before I admit I cannot carry it and hand it off to someone else.

If you arent fit enough then you shouldnt be a MAG gunner, but I would never dream of imagining that I am the equal of the PDF guy beside me carrying his MAG.

I simply cant be because he has done more training, however, dont take me for granted. A good RDF guy will break his own bo**ox trying to prove he is as good however hopeless that attempt is. The respect an RDF gunner should get is from trying to apply the smattering of training and knowledge he has recieved in the best way possible, admit it, we all know the shortcomings of the RDF but were merely cogs in the machine and can do nothing about it, it has to change from the top down.

Ive been on exercises with the PDF before and we werent integrated and we recieved massive encouragement from the guys we were mixed in with, the officers and NCOs we were commanded by and YES we got our arses kicked and so did the PDF lads beside us but it was the effort that was important and the willingness to suck up the experiences and new knowledge imparted on us by our fulltime comrades that showed what the RDF could be.

Basically im saying that we arent all clowns and that we dont all imagine ourselves as some sort of military heroes who know just as much as the PDF but there are toolbags in the force with us who are like that, I believe they are in the minority but usually they shout louder and make bigger f*ckups than the guys who are there trying hard to prove themselves useful and willing.

I have witnessed these "holier than thou" RDF muppets first hand and wanted to wrap their steyr around their knecks myself.

I wouldnt expect you to do a 1 year course in computer programming and to be better than I am after 4 years doing a degree and 7 years programming full time, just as I wouldnt expect myself to be as well trained and effective a soldier as you are because thats YOUR fulltime job.

I hope after reading this that some PDF lads will at least consider having one single iota more respect for the RDF or at least those of us who are worth having it for. There are gobsh*tes in both forces but dont paint us all with the one brush.

Obviously all of the above goes for people who have done other courses too.

Evd-Burner

Well said..

Poccington

Morpheus, I think you misunderstood me.

I asked how it takes 2 weeks to cover the GPMG because it's a weapon that can be easily covered in a week. To try cover it in 2 weeks is a waste of training time that unfortunately the Reserve don't have a lot of. The other things you listed are covered in completely different lessons and most aren't exclusive to the GPMG.

I wasn't trying to speak down on Reservist members although I apologise if it seemed like that. I just don't understand the concept of 2 weeks learning about a weapon that can be easily covered in a week..... Especially when training time is hard to come by. It's a waste of a week that could be spent learning somethin else.

Leadership

Off topic but I was thrown a GPMG on my JNCO cadre final exercise, had about 20 minutes to grasp the basics and it then became my "friend" for the next 10 days. Fond memories......

Back on track though 2 weeks on a single weapon for a reserve force.........Sounds like a work hard play much, much harder course. You can learn an AFV plus weapons system in two weeks.

Morpheus

thanks, i totally misunderstood which is why i assumed it was the sf course. I thought you were laughing at the concept of us being taught the weapon in a week or there abouts.

our training would consist of 2 months of 2 hour lessons, so 8 * 2 hour lessons = 16 hours total and then maybe 3 or 4 days in the field on 1 weeks camp and TOETS and Firing. So really i guess it isnt that much different. also as i had assumed you meant 2 weeks wasnt long enough, I thought that you guys must be covering the other lessons as part of the specifically PDF GPMG course. apologies. The rest stands.

martinr5232

GPMG Light role is A one week coarse including TOETs.

GPMG SF is also a weeks coarse in the reserve.

And i have both done and have thaught on both aswell.

concussion

Poccington wrote: »

I just don't understand the concept of 2 weeks learning about a weapon that can be easily covered in a week..... Especially when training time is hard to come by. It's a waste of a week that could be spent learning somethin else.

As you know each weapon has is own syllabus to be followed and some extra time needs to be allocated in case of snags along the way. The content is the same whether it's being taught to PDF or RDF.
However, if you're training on PDF time it's just going to take longer. Typically, from everything I've seen, is that when you're on a course run by PDF it's 9 to 4.30 Monday to Friday while RDF is usually a few hours after dinner and working through Saturday and Sunday.

PDF train all year round and I understand why PDF instructors and students aren't going to bust their balls working non-stop for a week to facilitate Reserves. RDF on the other hand know all we have is one/two weeks and so we cram in all the training we can when we're working away from PDF.