How do others calculate maintenance?

Shelli

Hi all,

It's a fairly vague question, because I know that what works for some people won't work for everyone, but I'm just trying to go about finding out the varied ways that work for you.

In my mind the fairest way is to calculate the childs living expenses (as best you can) and split them 50/50, provided both parents can afford that.

Let me give you a little background:

My ex and I are seperated just over two months, he moved in with a friend and I moved in with my parents with our son while I got myself together. It's now time I got myself and my son an apartment.

Now in my mind (and please feel free to tell me if you think otherwise), because I have my son I need a two bedroom apartment. In my area the rough cost for a decent 2bed is €1200. That would mean if I was to share with anyone else each persons rent would be €600. So if we share our sons portion equally it would be €300 each.

My ex won't hear of this, I have even offered to pay slightly more, taking into consideration the 4-5 nights a month he has him. But no budge, he says that it's my apartment and he's not paying for it.

He'll split everything else with me, his food, his childcare, and his clothing.

But not rent or bills.

We both earn quite a good salary and work full time. My mother has been minding our son full time for 7 mths now, and he is starting creche part time next week. I know he can afford it, he's on slightly more money than me, I wouldn't push for equal shares otherwise.

I told him to go away and think about it and make a proposal of his own, but I'm really scared this is going to turn into a struggle and we've been getting on so well until now, I really don't want any rows, or god forbid for this to go legal.

BTW, it was his choice to leave, I really wish it was different, but I'm trying my best to be reasonable when it comes to our son and not to use money as a way of getting at him.

Please give me your opinions or suggestions, any help is greatly appreciated.

Kildrought

Child maintenance is based on both parents income and expenditure (total expenditure and not just related to the child).

For an excellent spread sheet on calculating child maintenance see www.solo.ie (and in case any of the mods are concerned, this is a not-for-profit site set up by a lone parent as a source of information for others in the same situation).

Whilst it is always preferable to negotiate an agreement, regardless of how you reach the figure, it is better to have this backed by a court order.

Getting a maintenance order is pretty straight forward and shouldn't cause friction if the figure is already agreed between you. You can complete the documentation yourself at your local district court; you'll find the court clerks very helpful but they cannot of course give legal advice.

Nevyn

solo.ie is listed in the stickie for good links

littlebitdull

I am not now nor ever have been in your situation. But it would seem to me that you are not being unreasonable. I would feel as the childs father he has some sort of duty towards providing a home for the child, and you seem to be acting fair about it by not asking him to totally fund it.

MojoMaker

Shelli wrote: »

because I have my son I need a two bedroom apartment. In my area the rough cost for a decent 2bed is €1200. That would mean if I was to share with anyone else each persons rent would be €600

??
If you get a 2-bed apartment and wish to have your ex help you with the housing cost for you and your child you can leave the tenant idea at the front door. So which is it? 2 bed apt, a room for you, a room for the child, or a lodger in and around your son all the time while the ex pays for this scenario? Hmmm. Seems to me the child is almost incidental here.

January

MojoMaker wrote: »

??
If you get a 2-bed apartment and wish to have your ex help you with the housing cost for you and your child you can leave the tenant idea at the front door. So which is it? 2 bed apt, a room for you, a room for the child, or a lodger in and around your son all the time while the ex pays for this scenario? Hmmm. Seems to me the child is almost incidental here.

That would mean if I was to share with anyone else each persons rent would be €600. So if we share our sons portion equally it would be €300 each.

You missed the part in bold, if she were to have a someone in a room it would be 600€ therefore she is asking her ex for 300€ to pay for half her sons rent.

Sounds reasonable enough to me!

Ludo

For the situation you describe, €300 seems very reasonable to me (as a father). You say he is willing to split food, childcare and clothing costs but in fairness if your child is living with you most of the time, you are going to get stung for more incidental payments every now and again than the father is. Between sweets, days out etc etc you will be forking out a lot more.

I honestly don't know much about this area (and hope I never need to) but I would imagine if you had to go the legal route, he will have to pay a lot more to cover utility bills. Heating is damn expensive and he should contribute towards this also I would have thought.
The request to pay some of the rent is perfectly reasonable and your reasoning for the figure you mentioned also sounds fair enough. You are certainly not trying to shaft him and he should realise this.

Shelli

Thanks guys, if it comes to it I may just show him this thread!

MojoMaker

adrieanne__x wrote: »

You missed the part in bold, if she were to have a someone in a room it would be 600€ therefore she is asking her ex for 300€ to pay for half her sons rent.

Sounds reasonable enough to me!

How much exactly do you thnk the father should be hit for given that he sees & interacts with his son 10% of the time, if even? Everybody wants it to be equitable when money's concerned but when a 50% slice of day to day parenting is suggested it's suddenly not so cool eh?

Maybe slightly different in situations where the father has elected to back away and makes his own choice not to get involved etc (in this case), but where a father is genuinely trying to help, wants to be involved, and is restricted to a tiny slice of monthly child responsibilities it's unfair to suggest that everything is split 50/50 yet only get minimal contact in return.

Ludo

Well you seem to be automatically assuming that the mother is denying the father time with the child. In that case I can see your point to a degree and it may change the things to be considered. But also in that case I would assume things would go "legal" automatically if the father had a problem with it.

But from reading the original post, this does not seem to be the case (comment about them getting on well and not wanting to ruin it). In this situation I believe it is up to both parties to live up to their responsibilities to do the best for their child and a fathers responsibilities to a child do not end when the couple split up no matter who has "custody". If you can afford it why would you deny your child the best possible environment in which to live just to spite your ex-partner? Seems a bit selfish to me. As I said already I don't know much about this kind of thing so maybe I am talking ****e here but that is my initial reaction anyway for what it is worth.

MrPudding

MojoMaker wrote: »

How much exactly do you thnk the father should be hit for

Should be hit for? He is being asked to help to raise his own child, who he has just walked out on. I don't think "being hit for" is an appropriate term.

MojoMaker wrote: »

given that he sees & interacts with his son 10% of the time, if even?

We are not talking about going to the cinema or go karting here. It isn’t pay as you go. The child still needs to be raised when the father is not around.

MojoMaker wrote: »

Everybody wants it to be equitable when money's concerned but when a 50% slice of day to day parenting is suggested it's suddenly not so cool eh?

Not sure where you are coming from here. Is a 50% split not fair? What is a father percentage responsibility for a kid? How many other people were involved in the conception? 50% seem pretty reasonable when you are talking about 2 people being interesting.

MojoMaker wrote: »

Maybe slightly different in situations where the father has elected to back away and makes his own choice not to get involved etc (in this case), but where a father is genuinely trying to help, wants to be involved, and is restricted to a tiny slice of monthly child responsibilities it's unfair to suggest that everything is split 50/50 yet only get minimal contact in return.

Whether the father is genuinely trying to help or not he has a 50% responsibility to the child, at least. If the mother were not working I would expect him to pay more. I am not sure what access has to do with the amount of money a person should pay. he is not being asked to pay a pro rata fee for access to the child. He is being asked to help pay for the raising of a child he is 50% responsible for. To say that his financial responsibilities, at least in this case, are less than 50% is actually pretty retarded.

MrP

John Mason

You really need to take into consideration how much money you each earn.

The father needs to be able to live as well, many men have ended up homeless but they cannot afford to keep to families going. i am not saying that you are trying the fleece the guy or anything like that but income and expenditure of both parents have to be taken in to consideration before you can decide how to split the maintenance costs.

Shelli

He is on a substantial amount more than me, and I can manage. As stated above, I would not push for it if I thought he could not afford it.

I would be more than happy for my ex to have my son for half the month. He doesn't want him, he chose the 4 nights a month, I asked for him to even take 6, he replied "sure then I'd have no social life!".........

I'm getting angry even typing this, I'm bending over backwards to keep things amicable for the sake of my son, and he's taking all he can get.

Nevyn

If he has your son for at least 1 nigth a year he can claim single parents tax allowance
does he know that ? That might make him reconsider.

John Mason

have you tried family mediation?

i worked for many years in family law, and it is is so horrible watching a family being ripped apart over the cost of a mcdonald's big kiddie meal - trust me it happens.

you should try mediation and try to sort this out as amicably as possible

Shelli

He laughed at me when I suggested mediation, but if we cannot agree that will definately be the road we go down, I hate the idea of this getting as far as court.

It's very strange, because apart from the money issue, we get along great, we see each other out and have drinks together. I suppose it's good that we can keep these things seperate.

The Corinthian

Shelli wrote: »

He laughed at me when I suggested mediation, but if we cannot agree that will definately be the road we go down, I hate the idea of this getting as far as court.

Legally, you may have little option than to do things 'amicably'.

Unless he is earning a very good salary and has few major outgoings, you will realistically only be able to bring him to the circuit court where the limit that can be imposed for maintenance is €150 p.w.

The rent you're looking for is already €70 p.w. and if you add to this the other expenses, it might quickly add up over that maximum, and a circuit court judge will not be able to impose that or may even argue that what he's paying already is generous (depending upon his financial situation).

How much does he earn? Does he have major outgoings (mortgage, car, etc.)?

The Corinthian

MrPudding wrote: »

He is being asked to help to raise his own child, who he has just walked out on.

Unless I missed something, Shelli said that she had broken up with her, nothing about him walking out on the child.

K-9

Shelli wrote: »

Hi all,

It's a fairly vague question, because I know that what works for some people won't work for everyone, but I'm just trying to go about finding out the varied ways that work for you.

In my mind the fairest way is to calculate the childs living expenses (as best you can) and split them 50/50, provided both parents can afford that.

Let me give you a little background:

My ex and I are seperated just over two months, he moved in with a friend and I moved in with my parents with our son while I got myself together. It's now time I got myself and my son an apartment.

Now in my mind (and please feel free to tell me if you think otherwise), because I have my son I need a two bedroom apartment. In my area the rough cost for a decent 2bed is €1200. That would mean if I was to share with anyone else each persons rent would be €600. So if we share our sons portion equally it would be €300 each.

My ex won't hear of this, I have even offered to pay slightly more, taking into consideration the 4-5 nights a month he has him. But no budge, he says that it's my apartment and he's not paying for it.

He'll split everything else with me, his food, his childcare, and his clothing.

But not rent or bills.

We both earn quite a good salary and work full time. My mother has been minding our son full time for 7 mths now, and he is starting creche part time next week. I know he can afford it, he's on slightly more money than me, I wouldn't push for equal shares otherwise.

I told him to go away and think about it and make a proposal of his own, but I'm really scared this is going to turn into a struggle and we've been getting on so well until now, I really don't want any rows, or god forbid for this to go legal.

BTW, it was his choice to leave, I really wish it was different, but I'm trying my best to be reasonable when it comes to our son and not to use money as a way of getting at him.

Please give me your opinions or suggestions, any help is greatly appreciated.

Personally, I'd start from the point that he has to pay rent and you have to pay rent.

So, how much would a 1 bed apt. cost? Say €900. That means a 2 bed costs €300, 1/2 that, it costs €150 each for a 2 bed apt.

He's being fair enough on childcare, food and clothing. However a portion of bills should be included, otherwise he doesn't want to share light & heat for his child! :eek:

Anyway, I often think mediation, solicitors or last resort judges, are the best to decide maintenance. He'll always say it's enough or too much, you'll say it's not enough. Personally, let a 3rd party decide!

Both of ye can then blame the 3rd party!:D