Estate Agents lieing through their teeth?

kormak

I recently was negotiating the sale of a house. (no names mentioned, etc...)
It was advertised as a "5 deb dormer bungalow" and when we seen it we really really liked it.
It did require some minor upgrading but if we got it at the right price we were gonna move with it, which we did.
before signing over I asked the Estate Agent was there anything major I should know about?? to which he answered a couple of things but nothing too serious.
The house was a former 3 bed with converted attic holding 2 more bedrooms and a family bathroom.
before signing off we decided to get my partner's dad who's a builder to have a look at it.
He pointed out to us that the attic could not be legally called habitual bedrooms as they did not comply with the regulations (2.4 mtres height, etc...)
We got a surveyor to give the house a look over too and low and behold along with a number of other issues he told us that was NOT a 5 bed but a 3 bedroom with converted attic.
I phoned back the EA a few days later and began to discuss this with him.
Immediately he went on the defense and became somewhat aggresive to the fact I was telling him his company was falsely advertising!!
I hadn't even mentioned the price or negotiating the price and he spouted out that
"there's no point even thinking about negotiating the price as the sellers will not accept it!!!"
he then blamed my father-in-law for "talking nonsense" and "ruining the sale of the house"
even though he has over 30 years building experience with his own contracting business and everything he pointed out was further backed up with the following surveyors report!!!
The EA amazingly became hugely defensive, sighting he "didn't know" they weren't certed as bedrooms, neither did the seller... and how dare you accuse him of false advertising. (even though it's as plan as day it is).
he then went on to say that they were re-advertising the house a 3 bed with converted attic space.
He never offered to take any more lower offers of me, instead got more and more annoyed on the phone, telling me they have other people looking at it anyway!!!
So we ended pretty abruptly to my sheer amazement!!
the house is on the market over 18 months now, the price has dropped to 75,000 and still no buyers.
I'm happy to let it go and forget about the house, but i'm still scratching my head in disbelief at the behaviour of the EA??! (and honestly would love to approach the actual sellers and advise him what a f*ckin moron he is!!!)
like a rat cornered in a very unstable market if you ask me....

Gareth37

kormak wrote: »

I recently was negotiating the sale of a house. (no names mentioned, etc...)
It was advertised as a "5 deb dormer bungalow" and when we seen it we really really liked it.
It did require some minor upgrading but if we got it at the right price we were gonna move with it, which we did.
before signing over I asked the Estate Agent was there anything major I should know about?? to which he answered a couple of things but nothing too serious.
The house was a former 3 bed with converted attic holding 2 more bedrooms and a family bathroom.
before signing off we decided to get my partner's dad who's a builder to have a look at it.
He pointed out to us that the attic could not be legally called habitual bedrooms as they did not comply with the regulations (2.4 mtres height, etc...)
We got a surveyor to give the house a look over too and low and behold along with a number of other issues he told us that was NOT a 5 bed but a 3 bedroom with converted attic.
I phoned back the EA a few days later and began to discuss this with him.
Immediately he went on the defense and became somewhat aggresive to the fact I was telling him his company was falsely advertising!!
I hadn't even mentioned the price or negotiating the price and he spouted out that
"there's no point even thinking about negotiating the price as the sellers will not accept it!!!"
he then blamed my father-in-law for "talking nonsense" and "ruining the sale of the house"
even though he has over 30 years building experience with his own contracting business and everything he pointed out was further backed up with the following surveyors report!!!
The EA amazingly became hugely defensive, sighting he "didn't know" they weren't certed as bedrooms, neither did the seller... and how dare you accuse him of false advertising. (even though it's as plan as day it is).
he then went on to say that they were re-advertising the house a 3 bed with converted attic space.
He never offered to take any more lower offers of me, instead got more and more annoyed on the phone, telling me they have other people looking at it anyway!!!
So we ended pretty abruptly to my sheer amazement!!
the house is on the market over 18 months now, the price has dropped to 75,000 and still no buyers.
I'm happy to let it go and forget about the house, but i'm still scratching my head in disbelief at the behaviour of the EA??! (and honestly would love to approach the actual sellers and advise him what a f*ckin moron he is!!!)
like a rat cornered in a very unstable market if you ask me....

Whatever happened to that National Property Regulations Authority? :rolleyes:

What a Government we have!!! A disgrace!!!

How do you expect EAs not to con people when our entire Goverment and opposition parties are full of conmen. Fine Gael are no better than FF imo.

astrofool

To be fair, it's not up to the EA to do a survey, but the purchaser, rather than accuse them of false advertising you should have just said that after getting a surveyor to look at the property there were <insert here> problems, so on that basis, you feel you can only offer €X and leave it at that.

kormak

astrofool wrote: »

To be fair, it's not up to the EA to do a survey, but the purchaser, rather than accuse them of false advertising you should have just said that after getting a surveyor to look at the property there were <insert here> problems, so on that basis, you feel you can only offer €X and leave it at that.

maybe so, but this guy went on the defensive straight away. and told me that if i'm thinking of re-negotiating the price, there's no point as the sellers won't agree.
also he's maintaining that the sellers "had no idea these couldn't been classed as legal habitual bedrooms" and as far as he was aware these were already certed.
but now he's gonna re-advertise the house as a 3 bed with atic conv.
just after I called it!!!
now call me silly, but this guy would know a little more than the average lay-man about bedrooms, attics, regulations, etc...
you would presume that he seen the rooms and thought to himself "these may not comply with regulations?" but sure f*ck it i'll advertise it as a 5 bed anyway and wait for some fool to come along and buy it...

EKRIUQ

Yawn, another bash the EA again,

The estate agent's job is to market the house in as positive light as possible and achieve the best price for the sellers. As he's not a builder or architect he may not be up to all the current building regulations and was not purposely telling lies and purely saw your accusations of his company as your way negotiating the price to an even lower amount.

Its your decision to buy the house, you either want it or you don't It was good idea to have a survey done now you have the facts, the price the condition etc.. and your the one who have to make up your mind weather your going to buy it not to expect the EA to be begging you. Remember the estate agent works for the seller not the buyer and has no contract with you.

he then blamed my father-in-law for "talking nonsense" and "ruining the sale of the house"

I've seen sales were the parties buying the house were perfectly happy until other family members had put seed of doubt into their minds

My advice is walk away from this house your after finding so many things wrong it's probably because you don't really want it.

Flame away every one (small smiley)

Morgans

Namesco wrote: »

Yawn, another bash the EA again,

The estate agent's job is to market the house in as positive light as possible and achieve the best price for the sellers.

It was good idea to have a survey done now you have the facts, the price the condition etc..

Isn't this the OP point. You seem to suggest that the estate agent doesn't have to present the 'facts' about the house in order to achieve the best price for the sellers. It is the sellers who the EA has the contract with after all.

Would it be fair to say that a reputable EA would know the 'facts' about the house they are selling, while those less reputable EA would wait to see if an independent survey was taken out before uncovering the facts?

Victor

Namesco wrote: »

The estate agent's job is to market the house in as positive light as possible and achieve the best price for the sellers.

Sure, he can market it in a positive light, but he can not lie and not realising something like this is negligent.

As he's not a builder or architect he may not be up to all the current building regulations and was not purposely telling lies and purely saw your accusations of his company as your way negotiating the price to an even lower amount.

Estate agents are required to know enough to think "Hmmm, thats a low ceiling, I wonder if it complies with the building regulations?".

Compalints to www.asai.ie and www.iavi.ie

ScouseMouse

When I bought my house in Tallaght, I got my brother (who is highly placed in a building company) to snag it. He looked at the head clearance coming down the stairs and thought it looked a bit low. He challenged the site foreman about it and he denied there was anything wrong with it. My brother told him it was in the building regs that it had to be so much from stair step to ceiling, and the foreman said he was wrong.

So, the bro went to the boot of his car and took out a copy of the building regs. He pointed out section K1 and the foreman went quiet.

I faxed the builder, Kelland Homes in Tallaght this info, and they were out the next day sorting it.

the_syco

kormak wrote: »

So we ended pretty abruptly to my sheer amazement!!
the house is on the market over 18 months now, the price has dropped to 75,000 and still no buyers.
I'm happy to let it go and forget about the house, but i'm still scratching my head in disbelief at the behaviour of the EA??! (and honestly would love to approach the actual sellers and advise him what a f*ckin moron he is!!!)
like a rat cornered in a very unstable market if you ask me....

Send a letter to the seller. Sure they'd want to know why the EA hasn't sold their house yet.

mrgaa1

another good example of how useless estate agents are. They do not know, on the whole, what they are talking about and will spin a story to make everything look good. Avoid them when possible. Buy direct from the owner / developer.

EKRIUQ

mrgaa1 wrote: »

Avoid them when possible. Buy direct from the owner / developer.

Exactly, that's why all these "For Sale by Owner" companys are so popular, I see their signs everywhere. I'm sure they'll take over in a couple of years

Pat Mustard

Victor wrote: »

Sure, he can market it in a positive light, but he can not lie and not realising something like this is negligent.
Estate agents are required to know enough to think "Hmmm, thats a low ceiling, I wonder if it complies with the building regulations?".

Compalints to www.asai.ie and www.iavi.ie

Any good estate agent should know that if there is an attic conversion, that unless it was specifically converted with a view to fire/building regs, that it may well not comply. If the conversion/extension doesn't comply, then it should really be described as a storage area by the estate agent.

An attitude like that shown by that estate agent is going to put off buyers. Like somebody else previously suggested, a letter to the sellers will do them a favour by putting them in the picture, and may get this estate agent fired - which is what he deserves, by the sounds of it.

kormak

Namesco wrote: »

Yawn, another bash the EA again,

The estate agent's job is to market the house in as positive light as possible and achieve the best price for the sellers. As he's not a builder or architect he may not be up to all the current building regulations and was not purposely telling lies and purely saw your accusations of his company as your way negotiating the price to an even lower amount.

Its your decision to buy the house, you either want it or you don't It was good idea to have a survey done now you have the facts, the price the condition etc.. and your the one who have to make up your mind weather your going to buy it not to expect the EA to be begging you. Remember the estate agent works for the seller not the buyer and has no contract with you.



I've seen sales were the parties buying the house were perfectly happy until other family members had put seed of doubt into their minds

My advice is walk away from this house your after finding so many things wrong it's probably because you don't really want it.

Flame away every one (small smiley)

Namesco I don't understand one thing you've said there...
But I wouldn't be one bit surprised if you were an EA yourself?!
we were genuine interested sellers in this house and are now a bit pissed off it's turned out like this...
This EA has been trying to market this property for the past 18 months without success.
He claims that it was already surveyed and the issue of the attic bedrooms "did not show up"?? but only now he admits to it...
sorry but that's not selling a property in "a positive light" that's ****ing talking absolute rubbish and lieing through your teeth.
Even if he had of told me that he was unaware but the sellers knew.
but no, he's trying to make out that the sellers weren't aware, either was he or either was the other so called engineer that certed the house a year ago??
I would have absolutely no problem in writing a letter to the owners describing his actions, however I don't know their names and it's a country residence.
I may very well call up to their door though....

astrofool

As an aside, your surveyor should have requested the letter from the engineer that certed the house. The EA could be getting that engineer in a lot of trouble, or vice versa.

EKRIUQ

kormak wrote: »

I may very well call up to their door though....

Do that, because it's not worth losing a house if you really want it over an estate agents attitude, most sellers would be happy to discuss things with buyers but remember whether there real bedrooms or not the sellers must of agreed with the EA valuation for selling purposes so don't attack them over the price.(I can tell you the proper line to use if you want)

It's not really going to matter to the Esate Agents because he will claim he's the person who introduced the buyer to the seller. And if the Estate Agent was of any substance he would have informed the sellers of every conversation of the buyer.

(Might be better to ring first or leave a note some might not like cold callers but in all reality they should have your name and details already via the sale advice note from the estate agent)

kormak

The Mustard wrote: »

Any good estate agent should know that if there is an attic conversion, that unless it was specifically converted with a view to fire/building regs, that it may well not comply. If the conversion/extension doesn't comply, then it should really be described as a storage area by the estate agent.

This was my thinking exactly...
in fact he tried to argue with my father-in-law about whether they were legally bedrooms.
Then had the arrogance to tell me that "your father-in-law" was talking absolute nonsense even though everything he said came up a week later in the surveyors report...