Stolen cheque

Nobrow

A blank cheque belonging to our business was lost/stolen and used to pay for some expensive stuff with a fake signature. What are our rights here? Is the bank at fault for paying the cheque or is it all on us for loosing the cheque (actually we are not even sure we received the book that the cheque came from).

Thanks.

Carlow52

Nobrow wrote: »

A blank cheque belonging to our business was lost/stolen and used to pay for some expensive stuff with a fake signature. What are our rights here? Is the bank at fault for paying the cheque or is it all on us for loosing the cheque (actually we are not even sure we received the book that the cheque came from).

Thanks.

You had better get the answer to that piece in bold above pronto. I cant believe the casual approach implicit here because if more turn up the bank will take a much harder line

There is a big scam on at present with CC's/ cheques books/PIN numbers/ being intercepted in the post: massive problem.

Re the fake sig, bank has an obligation to 'cheque':D the signature against the specimen sig which is held electronically and can be called up on screen by the teller/clearing dept

Nobrow

Carlow52 wrote: »

You had better get the answer to that piece in bold above pronto. I cant believe the casual approach implicit here because if more turn up the bank will take a much harder line

There is a big scam on at present with CC's/ cheques books/PIN numbers/ being intercepted in the post: massive problem.

Re the fake sig, bank has an obligation to 'cheque':D the signature against the specimen sig which is held electronically and can be called up on screen by the teller/clearing dept

We have spoken to the bank so anymore dodgy cheques that are paid out will definitely be on their head. We can't find the book with the stolen (or surrounding) numbers, so we are not sure we ever had it, but it seems unbelievable that it could have been taken from the bank or the post so ...

Anyway, what you said about the signatures being checked is reassuring. The name on the cheque wasn't even correct! Thanks.

Lizzykins

In a former life I worked for one of the big two banks and I can tell you that the people who accepted the cheque for the goods are the ones liable. The onus is on them to make sure the cheque is legit before releasing goods.

okidoki987

Nobrow certainly isn't liable.
The Bank should have checked the signature so they are at fault but all they do is return the cheque to the shop with "unpaid or refer to drawer or something like that" stamped on it.
Why would a business accept a cheque for expensive goods unless they knew the person presenting it?
Most places won't even accept a bank draft until they check it with the bank first.

Carlow52

Nobrow wrote: »

We have spoken to the bank so anymore dodgy cheques that are paid out will definitely be on their head. We can't find the book with the stolen (or surrounding) numbers, so we are not sure we ever had it, but it seems unbelievable that it could have been taken from the bank or the post so ...

Anyway, what you said about the signatures being checked is reassuring. The name on the cheque wasn't even correct! Thanks.

no probs, however the bank will have a record of what cheques have been printed on your 'account' so they should be able to stop the whole book or books: if they claim they have not printed them then there is a rogue cheque printer out there, something not completly unexpected.

Lizzykins: re

In a former life I worked for one of the big two banks and I can tell you that the people who accepted the cheque for the goods are the ones liable. The onus is on them to make sure the cheque is legit before releasing goods.

As a matter of interest, and I dont doubt you,:What is the legal basis, under what legislation, that creates this 'onus'?

stepbar

1st point - The bank will have a record of what chq books were printed and posted to the customer. Each book represents a sequence (i.e 1 - 50) and each chq is numbered as such. So it should be fairly easy to see if you have the chq book in the company. You need to find out the chq number before you go any further.

2nd point - Banks have thousands of business customers and an equal amount of chq's to process each day. To physically check each and every signature would take an outrageous amount of time. That's why amounts over a certain limit are examined for sigs and spot checks are done. Gangsters know this and that's why chq fraud can be so attractive. However in saying all that staff would pick up on good amount of dodgy chqs either by knowing the sigs are incorrect or by physically checking them under a scanner (more so drafts).

3rd point - Whose liable? Depends. If it was found that the bank had done a check on the chq and everything looked good and followed procedure etc, then it would be questionable whether the bank would be liable or not. At this point it would be a case for the Guards because an act of fraud was commited (mind you the Guards should be involved in any event). Then you would be looking at the person / company who accepted the chq and the fraudster (I'll get back to the fraudster). In most B2B transactions, the parties involved would know each other and already have a working relationship. I seriously doubt that a business would accept a business chq from another first time customer until a good working relationship was created. However, I'm sure there are some desperados out there. As for the fraudster, this would be a case from the Guards to investigate mainly from evidence taken from the recipient of the chq and / or the victim of the fraud.

If it was found that the bank had not done a check, then it could be said that the bank would be liable. However I would imagine that the bank would be well in their right to go after the recipient of the chq / fraudster for any amounts that they are out.

How in ever, lets remember the company involved could be at fault (e.g a dodgy member of staff).

So all in all it really depends.

4th point - In this day and age all this chq malarky would be rectified by using online banking. It seems to me a lot of businesses rely on the chq book as artifical cash flow. Crazy stuff when you think about it.

Lizzykins

Good post Stepbar. You've explained it well. I used to have the job of checking the cheques in the "morning letter" as they called it and I would have gone through the cheques over a certain amount looking for correct signatories and dates etc. Sometimes you might catch a cheque even before the customer had realised there was a problem. Beats me how anyone gave out goods without some kind of guarantee on the cheque.