Is this expensive for head gasket, timing belt, water pump on Rover 45?

Esel

Friend in work has a 2002 Rover 45, 38K miles, head gasket gone. She has been quoted €1,200 by F1 Pitstop on Finglas, job to include timing belt and water pump (presume tensioner etc. also). Seemed dear to me!

I'd be interested to hear what others think of the price quoted.

cabbott

no offense but is the car worth that. im a mechanic ive done those head gaskets, they are guaranteed to go, and they will go again, the gasket cuts a very deep groove in the head. only repair what needs to be repaired, spend as little as possible to keep it going, €1200 sounds a bit steep.

cabbott

cabbott wrote: »

no offense but is the car worth that. im a mechanic ive done those head gaskets, they are guaranteed to go, and they will go again, the gasket cuts a very deep groove in the head. only repair what needs to be repaired, spend as little as possible to keep it going, €1200 sounds a bit steep.

+ 1

Price for repairs is about right, you may be able to get it done cheaper elsewhere. If it were me I'd just get a different car.

bazz26

She could buy a whole spare Rover 45 for a little bit more money:
http://www.carzone.ie/used-cars/Rover/45/car/1165680/

Get a quote from a different garage.

FearDark

Rovers are notorious for running head gaskets, i got caught years ago myself with a Rover 220 and again with a 75. Yes it can be fixed, yes it will be expensive, 1200 is about right for that kind of work but believe me it could possibly run a head gasket again. Lesson, stay well away from Rovers and if I was in your mates position id sooner buy a 1200 euro corrola or carina and believe me it will be still going long after the Rover is dead.

Bobo78

I have a Rover 45 year 2000 and on mine head gasket failed last December and I had it fixed for 320 €.
The garage only did what was necessary to do.
They replaced the hole gasket kit, fitted new timing belt (just the belt) new oil and oil filter and coolant.
So the cost was 120 € for the parts and 200 for the labour.
Although on my Rover there was no obvious sign that the gasket has failed.
Since I was aware of this problem with this car when i got it, i was checking the oil level and coolant level few times a week.
When then last November I noticed sludge like a mayo on the coolant tank walls, and i knew it was the gasket so i had it replaced as soon as i could.
But the thing is the engine wasnt overheating at all, when you drive it you would think that theres nothing wrong with it at all.
Becouse everything seemed fine and the car was going perfect.

So many people who never do random checks under the bonnet would never know about this untill the engine would overheat and then you would probably need new engine.

Back to the subject, OP i d go and get different quotes for that reapir becacuse that seems too expensive.

kuro_man

My sister had a rover 214 and had constant head-gasket problems. Eventually, after thousands spent, she gave up and got rid of the car, I would suggest you do the same and save yourself the hassle. She said she wouldn't even call a dog "Rover" now!
It might be a good time to trade it in, as the dealers has a lot of stock they want rid of, and they can send the Rover to the scrapyard where it belongs.

Mailman

get the landrover headgasket with steel spacers and it will not go as quickly again.
inspect for source of problem - may be thermostat which caused gasket to fail.
Quoted price is too high.

Darragh29

esel wrote: »

Friend in work has a 2002 Rover 45, 38K miles, head gasket gone. She has been quoted €1,200 by F1 Pitstop on Finglas, job to include timing belt and water pump (presume tensioner etc. also). Seemed dear to me!

I'd be interested to hear what others think of the price quoted.

Sounds OTT to me to be honest.

Wolverine_1999

Very high alright.. seeing the parts cost around €60 - €80 for the Timing Belt and Tensioners, and around €50 for the Head Gasket.. But the head gasket has to be skimmed as well which must be done professionally and properly, otherwise you'll have the same problems again a few months down the road..

I'd have to go with the "time to buy a new car" idea as well!

omb0wyn5ehpij9

That sounds expensive. But if i was in your friends position, i would just change the car!

Esel

Thanks to all for the opinions. I have passed on all your comments.

klaus23

There are a lot of myths and untruths surrounding the K-Series engine which itself is actually an impressive lump still being used in motorsport and kit car applications. Think Lotus Elise and Caterham 7 which both used K-Series engines.

In a nutshell, HG failure on the larger K-Series engines (1.6 upwards) can be quite common and when new was happening on 18,000 mile cars. While the smaller engines in the Metro and 45 are thought to be more dependable, issues were pinpointed towards a few things.

Initially, the engine was developed in the smaller capacities but when it was expanded to 1.4+ the block was redesigned which ultimately resulted in less block stiffness, allowing movement across the gasket plate making the HG design unstable. Also, the dowels connecting the head to the block were made of plastic which contributed to the movement, and finally the cooling system had quite a small capacity which meant that even a small leak would rapidly lead to overheating.

The most directly relevant question the OP has to ask is how the repair is going to be carried out, if not done correctly it will simply suffer failure again. If done correctly it will be as reliable as any other engine.

The best thing I recommend you can do is get on octane.ie, go into the Lotus section and ask forum member Hag for the contact number for a Rover K-Series specialist he used with great success, who did the repair correctly and was reasonably priced.

Otherwise you risk paying for a job which will only happen again in the future, and this is where the experience kuro_man described comes from.

Crosshair

Autodata quotes 4.8 hrs to replace gasket
Max 1hr extra for pump replacement
Call it 6 Hrs
Call it €300 for pump/belt/antifreeze/gasket/skim/oil/filter
rest is €150/hr Labour
I'm in the trade and the last one one i did only recently got belt and pump so wasnt reqd. For skim/gasket/oil change & fitting €350
So unless 150/hr is acceptable rate where you are you're being ripped off.
FYi it is better to use old style gasket if liners and block are slightly off level as modified gasket will not deform as well into the liner void.

galwaytt

Crosshair wrote: »

Autodata quotes 4.8 hrs to replace gasket
Max 1hr extra for pump replacement
Call it 6 Hrs
Call it €300 for pump/belt/antifreeze/gasket/skim/oil/filter
rest is €150/hr Labour
I'm in the trade and the last one one i did only recently got belt and pump so wasnt reqd. For skim/gasket/oil change & fitting €350
So unless 150/hr is acceptable rate where you are you're being ripped off.
FYi it is better to use old style gasket if liners and block are slightly off level as modified gasket will not deform as well into the liner void.

who in God's name pays 150/hr for labour???

Going rate for labour here is Eur35-40hr (2 local garages0.

It'd be cheaper to ship/drive it to Athenry to fix it, at that rate....

Esel

She has decided to go with F1 Pitstop. "Too much trouble to find someone else." I gave her the info below, and advised her to insist on the job being done as specified. Whether she will or not is another story!

This is a reply I got from Sterling Automotive in Eastbourne, as mentnioned by Honest John.

Thank you for your e-mail and enquiry. From what you say, your friend
has a number of options:

1) Replace the failed gasket with the original design of head gasket -
we would not recommend this as it is not very strong when subjected to
overheating and could well fail again in the future.

2) Replace the failed gasket with the new modified type known as the MLS
gasket kit which includes a multi-layer shim gasket and strengthened
lower oil rail which improves rigidity in the construction of the engine
which features long bolts that go straight through from the top of the
head to the lower oil rail located in the sump under the engine block.
The part number for this is ZUA000080 and the most competitive way of
sourcing one of these would be to visit www.xpart.com, click the link
for parts distributors and use the locator function to find the nearest
XPart wholesaler to your postcode.

3) The premium option would be to go for our own 5 year guarantee
package which includes the above modified parts along with a thorough
inspection of the whole cooling system and replacement of other known
weak areas which can cause head gasket failure. As far as I am aware, we
are the only specialist in the world to offer such a guarantee which
also comes with 5 years fixed priced genuine Rover servicing (a
condition of the guarantee to be done by us) and 5 years free Interim
Lubrication Services between annual services to thank you for your
loyalty and to help extend the life of your car's engine.

Whilst I appreciate that travelling all the way to Eastbourne from
Dublin for this repair would not normally be economically viable, we do
specialise in helping long distance customers with our 'Service Tourism'
program. If you click on the 'Links' page of our website
(www.sterlingautomotive.co.uk) you will find a list of accommodation
providers and a link to the Visit Eastbourne website which includes a
wider selection of accommodation and a list of local events throughout
the year for those wishing to make it more of a holiday or mini-break.

If you intend to get the work done locally, here are some handy
additional bits of information:

A) Ensure that replacement cylinder head bolts are used during the
reassembly - the old ones can stretch and should not be re-used.

Replace water pump regardless of whether it is leaking now or not -
this is one of the most common causes of head gasket failure.

C) Ensure that all other parts of the cooling system are thoroughly
checked and any other weak points addressed at the same time.

D) Ensure that vacuum fill equipment is used to drain and refill the
cooling system with water and antifreeze. This was a dealer standard
from 2001 onwards and is essential to ensure that all air is removed
from the system. If the repairing garage does not know what this
equipment is or does not appreciate the importance of using it during
the repair - do not leave the car with them as air locks can also lead
to repeat failures and incur un-necessary expense.

E) Ensure that when head the is removed, it is checked for warping or
overheating damage - refitting a head in bad condition will lead to
continued coolant loss.

F) Ensure that when the head is removed, the cylinder block and liners
are checked to ensure that the head will reseal perfectly when
reassembled.

Some of the above sounds pretty scary but should not put you off keeping
the car. If the repairs are completed properly by an experienced
Technician, the car should be reliable for many more years.

If I can be of any further assistance, please do not hesitate to contact
me again.

Kind regards

Patrick Warner
Managing Director

Sterling Automotive Limited.
4 Redward Business Park, Hammonds Drive, Eastbourne. East Sussex. BN23
6PW.

T. 01323 438754
F. 01323 417362
M. 07711 592904

Fishtits

klaus23 wrote: »

Initially, the engine was developed in the smaller capacities but when it was expanded to 1.4+ the block was redesigned which ultimately resulted in less block stiffness, allowing movement across the gasket plate making the HG design unstable. Also, the dowels connecting the head to the block were made of plastic which contributed to the movement, and finally the cooling system had quite a small capacity which meant that even a small leak would rapidly lead to overheating.

The most directly relevant question the OP has to ask is how the repair is going to be carried out, if not done correctly it will simply suffer failure again. If done correctly it will be as reliable as any other engine.

OK, so the reason the "HG" fails is due to inherent design issues - lack of stiffness, plastic dowels, etc.

So how does a mechanic fit a replacement gasket "correctly" and negate these issues?

Sounds like a lemon TBH

Mailman

Fishtits wrote: »

OK, so the reason the "HG" fails is due to inherent design issues - lack of stiffness, plastic dowels, etc.

So how does a mechanic fit a replacement gasket "correctly" and negate these issues?

Sounds like a lemon TBH

Are you trying to help the OP or just looking for reasons to re-enforce an existing prejudice?

klaus23

Fishtits wrote: »

So how does a mechanic fit a replacement gasket "correctly" and negate these issues?

If you read my post again, regardless of your level of mechanical knowledge, you could reason together that the original design and parts used were flawed, that an issue has been widely identified (OMG! Rover's blow headgaskets!!!) and that as posted below, you use a different gasket kit and get an experienced specialist to carry out the work, correctly.

To be honest, if the OP's friend is not 100% certain that the work is done correctly, then there's no point in doing it. There's a science to running old cars - Bangernomics - and FearDark also has a valid point, you could get a hold of a 200,000 mile Carina for €1200 and it will probably keep going long after a nuclear war.

All I'm saying is that the work can be done cheaper, must be done correctly and that for its time and in it's defence, the K-Series engine was a very advanced unit and certainly a very good one, as it's kitcar and motorsport pedigree shows.