Catholic Church demands to be part of new schools

mike65

clicky

But why?

If the Catholic Church wants Catholic schooling shouldn't they fund and run said institutes?

It would nice to see the Dept of Ed take a stand on this, and take the opportunity to begin a programme of genuine state run schools 'by the poeple, for the people'

Mike.

Why? Because they like to control the indoctrination of children.

lostexpectation

education always take precedence over catholic education

brianthebard

All schools should be nationalised.

ChocolateSauce

What an unusually strong statement from the dying Church. I guess they weren't afraid of secularism as long as they could brainwash our children.

SeanW

I was lucky enough to go to a secondary school that was run by a VEC (I think) but Religion was on the timetable. Fortunately, it was only there on paper: they had the good sense not to actually teach it: the time went to more LCVP work, do-your-homework time and so on.

But my primary school education was pathetic, I know in the U.S. there's a long and protracted debate about whether to teach Creationism or Evolution, but IIRC I was only ever given the lame and logically insolvent "Adam and Eve" story. Along with a LOT of religious instruction.

I can quite understand why a lot of people would want to see the back of the Church in public funded education, and I don't think they should have any control, influence or teachings in schools they do not run.

Does anyone know for sure if non-Church schools are still teaching "Religion?"

Nevyn

Educate together schools have a religious education program which endeavours to teach children something about all the different religions in the world rather then a program of religious instruction.

Victor

SeanW wrote: »

I can quite understand why a lot of people would want to see the back of the Church in public funded education, and I don't think they should have any control, influence or teachings in schools they do not run.

Does anyone know for sure if non-Church schools are still teaching "Religion?"

Children have a constitutional right to religious education.

Bottle_of_Smoke

SeanW wrote: »

I was lucky enough to go to a secondary school that was run by a VEC (I think) but Religion was on the timetable. Fortunately, it was only there on paper: they had the good sense not to actually teach it: the time went to more LCVP work, do-your-homework time and so on.

But my primary school education was pathetic, I know in the U.S. there's a long and protracted debate about whether to teach Creationism or Evolution, but IIRC I was only ever given the lame and logically insolvent "Adam and Eve" story. Along with a LOT of religious instruction.

I can quite understand why a lot of people would want to see the back of the Church in public funded education, and I don't think they should have any control, influence or teachings in schools they do not run.

Does anyone know for sure if non-Church schools are still teaching "Religion?"

My little brother's doing it as a leaving cert subject. He learns about different religions and evolutionary theory.

The_Minister

SeanW wrote: »

But my primary school education was pathetic, I know in the U.S. there's a long and protracted debate about whether to teach Creationism or Evolution, but IIRC I was only ever given the lame and logically insolvent "Adam and Eve" story. Along with a LOT of religious instruction.

The Catholic Church accepts evolution so I'm going to have to call shenanigans on this.

Fratton Fred

Victor wrote: »

Children have a constitutional right to religious education.

Do children have a right to a non religious education as well, or even a non Catholic one? because in some areas that is not possible.

seamus

Victor wrote: »

Children have a constitutional right to religious education.

However, the state is not obliged to provide this religious education.
To elaborate, there are only two articles which mention religious education:

Article 42
1. The State acknowledges that the primary and natural educator of the child is the Family and guarantees to respect the inalienable right and duty of parents to provide, according to their means, for the religious and moral, intellectual, physical and social education of their children.

Or in other words, the state will not override a parent's right to bring up their child in the way that they see fit.

Article 42
4. The State shall provide for free primary education and shall endeavour to supplement and give reasonable aid to private and corporate educational initiative, and, when the public good requires it, provide other educational facilities or institutions with due regard, however, for the rights of parents, especially in the matter of religious and moral formation.

The state will make sure that primary education is available for all, for free, without undermining parents' right to educate their children in religious and moral matters.

These two items basically guarantee that the state will never force a child to learn or endure something which is contrary to their parent's religious and moral beliefs.

It does not require the state to provide any religious education.

Hobbes

I wouldn't have a problem with the schools teaching religious education, as long as it was all religions equally.

Hobbes

Bottle_of_Smoke wrote: »

My little brother's doing it as a leaving cert subject. He learns about different religions and evolutionary theory.

Why would evolutionary theory be taught in religion class? One is a science, the other isn't.

BrenC

The Catholic Church is demanding? On what ground do they get to demand anything, Im Catholic and this is a bad idea.

thebman

Thaedydal wrote: »

Educate together schools have a religious education program which endeavours to teach children something about all the different religions in the world rather then a program of religious instruction.

I went to school in a Christian Brothers and we were taught about other religions a fair bit too.

Personally I didn't pay much attention and aren't religious at all now but overall I have to say religion classes have fook all influence on most kids.

I still don't agree with it but sure they can setup their own schools with all their near infinite wealth if they want to continue teaching.

genericgoon

Hobbes wrote: »

Why would evolutionary theory be taught in religion class? One is a science, the other isn't.

I'd assume LC religion would have a focus on conflicts between certain religious standpoints and science, but also how it has been reconciled with most major religions. I assume it would be more using evolution as an example of this kind of thing but I assume actually have a brief understanding of evolution and its evidence would be required to flesh out the subject.

Fratton Fred

brim4brim wrote: »

I went to school in a Christian Brothers and we were taught about other religions a fair bit too.

Personally I didn't pay much attention and aren't religious at all now but overall I have to say religion classes have fook all influence on most kids.

I still don't agree with it but sure they can setup their own schools with all their near infinite wealth if they want to continue teaching.

Religous Studies is a great way of teaching about other cultures. It can go a long way to explaining to kids why some Women wear headscarfes, or why some men wear a turban, even why their class mate can't/won't eat a bacon roll.

Regardless of whether or not a school is a Church based school, I still believe these studies should be held.

ShooterSF

Catholic Church has no right to be in schools. Luckily for me my religion teacher was also my history teacher and though it in a historical fashion. Which wasn't too bad. My lil sister just did her leaving and was in a church run school (we only have 2 girls schools in town and both are church run). Her principle was an elderly nun who spent more time giving out to girls for wearing make up or not dressing properly than caring about their education. She seems to still live in the day where women leave school and need to look well to find a wealthy husband to keep her in her house.

Those attitudes are ridiculous in this day and age. People know where the church is if the want religious questions answered.Why should they be forced to sit through church education?

djpbarry

ShooterSF wrote: »

She seems to still live in the day where women leave school and need to look well to find a wealthy husband to keep her in her house.

Hmmm....

Perhaps the catholic church is more enlightened than I had previously thought.

Bottle_of_Smoke

Hobbes wrote: »

Why would evolutionary theory be taught in religion class? One is a science, the other isn't.

It wouldn't be to the same extent as biology, and more focuses on the conflicts it causes/has caused with religion

lostexpectation

Victor wrote: »

Children have a constitutional right to religious education.

fixed first

Permabear

This post has been deleted.

Liam Byrne

Firstly, we're basing the use of the emotive word "demand" on ONE ARTICLE.....who's to say that they didn't "REQUEST", and that the Independent put their own slant on it ?

Not saying that they did (if it was the Sindo I'd be certain of it, but I don't think the Indo is quite as tabloidesque).

Secondly, it's not that long ago that Muslim schools taught Muslim children, Protestant schools taught Protestant children, etc.

So why are we singling out Catholicism ? Yet again, because it's the soft, easy target.

Ideally, schools would teach all aspects of religion or religious theory, and then let parents decide what religion their child should be part of (if any).

But bashing Catholicism without comparing it to the "demands" / requests made by other religions is unfair, and is typical "jump on the bandwagon" style rubbish.

Of the people here who jump on the Catholic church - how many support a Muslims' right to wear their head-dress, or whatever other requirements other religions make of their members ?

I lost interest in the Catholic church years ago (in fact, I lost interest in most religion because it's purely an excuse to single people out as different and excuse attacks and prejudices) but it galls me when people judge it by different standards to the others.

lostexpectation

Liam Byrne wrote: »

So why are we singling out Catholicism ? Yet again, because it's the soft, easy target.
.

cos we're in ****ING IRELAND and most of the schools are are controlled by the catholic church.