Dublin Trains - Mad Strict

BogWog

I had no idea how serious they were about not having a ticket on the train in Dublin. I took the train for the 3rd time in my life to go to Balbriggan and I didn't even know they had ticket machines these days so I just walked in since there was nobody selling tickets and the ticket inspector came on the train and instead of letting me pay the fare the ****er gave me a 50 euro fine.

I thought I could sneak my way out of it by not showing him any ID but he called the Gardai to get them to verify my address. The Gards already knew my address so its a good thing I didn't give him the ticket inspector a fake address. Ireland isn't the laid back easy going country it used to be.

L1011

There are MASSIVE signs telling you not to board trains without tickets in any station with ticket machines - they've had machines since the 1980s in some places.

Its strict because thats the only way to prevent freeloaders. And its the same train company in the entire country, not just Dublin...

BogWog

The 80's? I never saw any ticket machines in Connolly station when I was there a few years ago. Yea I suppose your right. Nobody would pay if they weren't strict about it. I know I'll never get on a train without a ticket again.

L1011

Maynooth had TVMs (well, one TVM - that rarely worked) in 1988. Connolly had them in the 1990s... The current ones are huge and orange, the old ones were missable.

Tipsy Mac

What station did you board the train at?

As far as I know there's no station left that you can board the train without jumping over the turnstyles. Was this not an indication that you needed a ticket like the rest of the civilised commuters?

Red Alert

Look, you didn't pay for your ticket. You wouldn't think of doing that for a 1.99 breakfast roll and you expect to get let off a fare that other people on the train have had to pay. Get over it and pay the fine honestly.

L1011

Tipsy Mac wrote: »

What station did you board the train at?

As far as I know there's no station left that you can board the train without jumping over the turnstyles. Was this not an indication that you needed a ticket like the rest of the civilised commuters?

Broomebridge!

But no, he didn't get on there...

Run_to_da_hills

BogWog wrote: »

I had no idea how serious they were about not having a ticket on the train in Dublin. I took the train for the 3rd time in my life to go to Balbriggan and I didn't even know they had ticket machines these days so I just walked in since there was nobody selling tickets and the ticket inspector came on the train and instead of letting me pay the fare the ****er gave me a 50 euro fine.

I thought I could sneak my way out of it by not showing him any ID but he called the Gardai to get them to verify my address. The Gards already knew my address so its a good thing I didn't give him the ticket inspector a fake address. Ireland isn't the laid back easy going country it used to be.

And this is all before CIE introduces the widespread use of chipped smart cards. In the near future your smart card will be your formal ID and will be necessary for all public transport. you will also have designated transit police enforcing law and order just like London or any other European city.

The next generation Oystercard is now promoting free bus and rail journeys for those who wish to have their photo incorporated on this card. https://photocard.tfl.gov.uk/tfl/showLogon.do

The days of getting booted off the train at the next stop for bunking are long gone.

L1011

Oyster cards are, by default, *anonymous* before you launch off on one about them being ID. You can *optionally* register them, just like Luas cards.

Run_to_da_hills

MYOB wrote: »

Oyster cards are, by default, *anonymous* before you launch off on one about them being ID. You can *optionally* register them, just like Luas cards.

For the moment yes you can purchase an anonymous oyster card for £3 but most in station touch pads and top up machines have CCTV pointing directly down on them just like ATM machines. They also use CCTV at turn styles with touch pads so that they can easily match cards with faces and track movements. The London Metropolitan police made over 800 enquiries alone from LRT regarding Oyster cards records in 2005.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/4800490.stm

Anyway back on topic, CIE in modern times has the technology to detect and track fare evaders that they did not have twenty years ago. They have also ways of gathering evidence such as the widespread use of CCTV in stations, trains and busses. Every new bus that enters service has a total of seven CCTV cameras on board including a foreword one facing the road, the dart and Luas would also have similar. If they knew of a regular fare dodger they could easily go through records.

One of the reasons CIE wants to push for smart card use is that they can run stations unmanned right into the early hours. With several portal touch pads, there is no excuse for evading them. As the system will eventually become cashless there is less fear of machines being vandalised for cash as you can also top up a smart card over the phone or online..

Nostradamus

MYOB wrote: »

they've had machines since the 1980s in some places.

Da Ticket Yoke Down Dere by the Jacks

The ministerial opening was some craic, ended up with a senior minster being flown to the Mayo Clinic (not the one in Castlebar) to have a liver transplant. A total of two people at the time used it before it was converted to stationary boiler for the signal cabin in Enfield. It was a customer failure but a moral victory.

Joins the list of CIE "might have beens" along with 'Lynch's 2020 Boosters' and the 'Galway Trolley Trams' which had wheels like a bus but were not buses.

pwp

you also notice that some people when they buy a ticket, once they get through the barriers throw the ticket in the bin. common on the bus too. it is comical to see people being asked by inspectors to show their ticket.

Run_to_da_hills

pwp wrote: »

you also notice that some people when they buy a ticket, once they get through the barriers throw the ticket in the bin. common on the bus too. it is comical to see people being asked by inspectors to show their ticket.

I did that in the UK once without thinking and was asked for it again on the train, luckily I got away with purchasing a replacement rather than getting a fine. .

Rawr

I don't know if this is an issue at other stations, but at Leixlip Louisa Bridge you'll often find yourself at a loss when trying to purchase a ticket in the evenings and many weekends.

Once it gets to a to a certain hour, and/or day, the station becomes un-manned. No problem, you'd think, I'll grab a ticket from the automatic machine...well...alas mostly no...you can't do that, because often when the ticket office is closed, so is the station building (containing said machine).

I myself have moved away from Dublin, and thus I don't use the season tickets anymore. However I will find myself back home for various weekends, holidays and such, and during that time I will often want to train into the city centre. But alas, I find myself unable to purchase a single-ticket.

Those of you who don't know Louisa Bridge, should imagine a very interesting 'flattened-tube' shape building suspended over the tracks like a bridge. Pheonix Park station is of similar design. Often when staff leave it, all access doors are locked shut, leaving no way to reach the ticket hall and it's machine. A visitor to the city, such as myself, has only one other access route to the city-bound platform, which is a long wheel-chair ramp which is not connected to the building. There are no ticket machines on these platforms. Nor are there any nearby shops, who might issue tickets. (I don't know if shops ever issue IE tickets?)

Now, this hasn't been a problem for me so far. I'd often go to Connoly, go to the staff at the barrier, tell them I've come in from Lousia Bridge (and that the ticket hall was closed) and hand them my fare before leaving. I'd often find myself with a gang of fellow Leixlupians doing exacly the same thing for the same reason.

What I'm wondering is...upon seeing tales of people getting fined for arriving at the gate without a ticket, will my next evening/weekend visit to Connolly be very unpleasant?

murphaph

pwp wrote: »

you also notice that some people when they buy a ticket, once they get through the barriers throw the ticket in the bin. common on the bus too. it is comical to see people being asked by inspectors to show their ticket.

Strange thing to do. I can't think of any transit system in the world where this is the done thing. Lots of stupid people out there I suppose.

paulm17781

Rawr wrote: »

What I'm wondering is...upon seeing tales of people getting fined for arriving at the gate without a ticket, will my next evening/weekend visit to Connolly be very unpleasant?

No, it's only if you had the chance to buy a ticket which in this case you didn't. If the station was open and you didn't have a ticket it's a fine. If it's closed, there was nothing you could do.

KC61

Rawr wrote: »

I don't know if this is an issue at other stations, but at Leixlip Louisa Bridge you'll often find yourself at a loss when trying to purchase a ticket in the evenings and many weekends.

Once it gets to a to a certain hour, and/or day, the station becomes un-manned. No problem, you'd think, I'll grab a ticket from the automatic machine...well...alas mostly no...you can't do that, because often when the ticket office is closed, so is the station building (containing said machine).

I myself have moved away from Dublin, and thus I don't use the season tickets anymore. However I will find myself back home for various weekends, holidays and such, and during that time I will often want to train into the city centre. But alas, I find myself unable to purchase a single-ticket.

Those of you who don't know Louisa Bridge, should imagine a very interesting 'flattened-tube' shape building suspended over the tracks like a bridge. Pheonix Park station is of similar design. Often when staff leave it, all access doors are locked shut, leaving no way to reach the ticket hall and it's machine. A visitor to the city, such as myself, has only one other access route to the city-bound platform, which is a long wheel-chair ramp which is not connected to the building. There are no ticket machines on these platforms. Nor are there any nearby shops, who might issue tickets. (I don't know if shops ever issue IE tickets?)

Now, this hasn't been a problem for me so far. I'd often go to Connoly, go to the staff at the barrier, tell them I've come in from Lousia Bridge (and that the ticket hall was closed) and hand them my fare before leaving. I'd often find myself with a gang of fellow Leixlupians doing exacly the same thing for the same reason.

What I'm wondering is...upon seeing tales of people getting fined for arriving at the gate without a ticket, will my next evening/weekend visit to Connolly be very unpleasant?

The rules are very simple indeed:

If it IS possible to purchase a ticket at the station that you board the train, then you MUST do so at that station.

If it is NOT possible to purchase a ticket at the station that you board the train, then you pay at your destination.

It's as simple as that, with no ifs, no buts and no maybes!!!

So, in your example, if the station building at Leixlip Louisa Bridge is closed and locked up, you pay at Connolly. If it is open however, you must buy a ticket at Leixlip Louisa Bridge before boarding a train.

patrickc

often in carlow if the ticket office is really busy, the person in the office will just say get one on the train, I've never had a problem doing this either, nothing ever been said to me by the inspector.

paulm17781

patrickc wrote: »

often in carlow if the ticket office is really busy, the person in the office will just say get one on the train, I've never had a problem doing this either, nothing ever been said to me by the inspector.

It is illegal though. I know it happens but they aren't allowed do that. You must have a ticket to travel on the train and you are liable if you don't.

murphaph

paulm17781 wrote: »

It is illegal though. I know it happens but they aren't allowed do that. You must have a ticket to travel on the train and you are liable if you don't.

aye, didn't some lad in Balbriggan (or out that way) go to court over something similar? Think it was common practice to board there when the ticket office was busy and the guy got stung for penalty fare and decided to make an issue of it.

BogWog

I got on the train from Washington DC to New York and it was 3 in the morning when the train was leaving and there was no ticket vendor open and I didn't have a credit card to use the machine so I just got on the train and when they guy came to check my ticket I told him the situation and he just let me buy a ticket then and there. No fine or anything like that.

Cool Mo D

There is one exception to the ticket rules. If the ticket office is closed, but the machines are open, you are not obliged to use the machine. The machines can't give out some tickets an actual person can, and some people, especially elderly people, can't work them. So, if you don't pay, the window in the station was closed, but the machine was working - you can pay at your destination. You might have to argue about this, but it's in the bylaws.

L1011

Eldery people can't work them - but they also get free travel and the machines are unable to issue the ticket chits for free travel... definately don't have to use them if they're the only option!

Carawaystick

KC61 wrote: »

The rules are very simple indeed:

If it IS possible to purchase a ticket at the station that you board the train, then you MUST do so at that station.

If it is NOT possible to purchase a ticket at the station that you board the train, then you pay at your destination.

It's as simple as that, with no ifs, no buts and no maybes!!!

So, in your example, if the station building at Leixlip Louisa Bridge is closed and locked up, you pay at Connolly. If it is open however, you must buy a ticket at Leixlip Louisa Bridge before boarding a train.

Can you provide a link to these simple rules on Irish rails website?

Surely if they were so simple they would clearly explain this.

BendiBus

Carawaystick wrote: »

Can you provide a link to these simple rules on Irish rails website?

Surely if they were so simple they would clearly explain this.

http://www.irishrail.ie/home/faq.asp?faq_id=6#6

http://www.irishrail.ie/home/faq.asp?faq_id=46#46 which links to http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/1984/en/si/0109.html

Section 4

Where the Board gives notice that a station is unattended or the booking office is closed, or where any person is instructed by an authorised person to board a train at a station without purchasing a ticket at the booking office so as not to delay the departure of the train from the station, any person not in possession of a valid ticket entitling him or her to travel may enter a vehicle at that station for the purpose of travelling but that person must obtain a ticket or other authority from an authorised person on the train as soon as practicable after entering any vehicle or from an authorised person on arrival at the station to which such person is travelling by the train.

Easy

Cool Mo D

Exactly. The rules are simple:

If the booking office is open, you must buy a ticket at the station.

If the booking office is closed, you may buy a ticket at your destination.

Run_to_da_hills

MYOB wrote: »

Eldery people can't work them - but they also get free travel and the machines are unable to issue the ticket chits for free travel... definately don't have to use them if they're the only option!

The elderly are expected to carry a valid ticket / concession card at all times even though they travel free. Pensioners (and some on disability) will be the first in the country to be issued with the national ID card which will be compatible with all transit touch pads. This will be "convenient" for them as they will eventually have this card on them at all times anyway, i.e. Medical / Post office pension card.

Glenageary Dart station is another station that is regularly closed to attendants and automatic machines after certain hours.

Carawaystick

Q. Can I purchase tickets on the train?
A. Tickets can only be purchased on the train if the ticket office is un-staffed or closed.

This seems to imply that you can buy tickets on the train if the ticket office s closed. If you were to get the 23:40 from Donabate to Rush and Lusk, there is no facility to buy a ticket on the train.

Also the answer does not allow passengers from Broombridge to buy tickets on the train as there is no ticket office to be closed.


What happens if the Board haven't given notice that
"a station is unattended or the booking office is closed," but the station was unattended or the booking office was closed?


The SI quoted states you only have to get a ticket from an open booking office, if it is closed, then there is no obligation to use a machine, which can't sell all tickets anyway.


which is not what KC61 said.

Also what's a booking office? seeing as there are no reservations available on the majority of irish rails services, and many of their intercity services.


Also why do irish rail persist in their "No ticket No travel NO excuse ... customers must be in possession of a valid ticket when traveling" when as has been stated here by kc61, Cool Mo D, and BendiBus that this is not true?

Rawr

I remember travelling on a Maynooth-line train to the city, one Sunday years ago.

As Leixlip is usually closed on Sunday, I couldn't buy my ticket. But not long into my journey, to my complete surprise, an actual IE Conductor appears and sells me a ticket, for the usual price. The Ticket itself was very like it was from those books of tickets you would get for raffles and such. Except this one was slightly larger, had IE logos and bylaws printed, and two spaces titled "Zone From:" and "Zone To:" and the price at the bottom...all written in by the Conductor.

I've never seen this again on an IE train. But it would be good to have more of these folks in the evening and weekend to purchase tickets from.

As Carawaystick points out, IE have many posters saying - 'No Ticket, No Travel, No Excuse'. Which is part of the reason I was confused before.
Although I sometimes have no ticket (for reasons outlined before), I *can* travel, and my excuse appears to be backed up by IE byelaws.

I know they're just trying to scare fare-dodgers, but for the sake of those who don't know better, perhaps a sign outside the likes of Leixlip (when it's closed) would be helpful. Something like 'Purchase ticket at destination' or such?

Ham'nd'egger

Carawaystick wrote: »

This seems to imply that you can buy tickets on the train if the ticket office s closed. If you were to get the 23:40 from Donabate to Rush and Lusk, there is no facility to buy a ticket on the train.

Also the answer does not allow passengers from Broombridge to buy tickets on the train as there is no ticket office to be closed.

What happens if the Board haven't given notice that "a station is unattended or the booking office is closed," but the station was unattended or the booking office was closed?

The SI quoted states you only have to get a ticket from an open booking office, if it is closed, then there is no obligation to use a machine, which can't sell all tickets anyway. which is not what KC61 said.

Also what's a booking office? seeing as there are no reservations available on the majority of irish rails services, and many of their intercity services.

why do irish rail persist in their "No ticket No travel NO excuse ... customers must be in possession of a valid ticket when traveling" when as has been stated here by kc61, Cool Mo D, and BendiBus that this is not true?

The Si does mention...

"3. Except as provided in Bye-Law No. 4, no person other than an authorised person shall—
(1) enter any lift or pass any ticket barrier unless and until he or she or someone on his or her behalf shall have obtained from the Board or from an authorised person a ticket or other authority entitling the holder to enter such lift or pass such barrier; and such ticket or other authority shall be produced on demand to any authorised person; or

(2) enter any vehicle for the purpose of travelling unless and until he or she or someone on his or her behalf shall have obtained from the Board or from an authorised person a ticket or other authority entitling him or her to travel therein."

A ticket machine is provided by the Board and suffices in this regard; ditto for buying a travel card/ticket from a shop. Online bookings would also also be provided by the Board for booking.

4 is pretty matter of fact and covers a situation whereby a ticket booth is not open or available...

"4. Where the Board gives notice that a station is unattended or the booking office is closed, or where any person is instructed by an authorised person to board a train at a station without purchasing a ticket at the booking office so as not to delay the departure of the train from the station, any person not in possession of a valid ticket entitling him or her to travel may enter a vehicle at that station for the purpose of travelling but that person must obtain a ticket or other authority from an authorised person on the train as soon as practicable after entering any vehicle or from an authorised person on arrival at the station to which such person is travelling by the train."

When this applies, you either get a ticket on a train or at your destination station. An unattended station is one which doesn't have staff or booking office allocated to it and not actually a station that has closed the booking office for the day; there is a few of these still in existence.

Victor

Carawaystick wrote: »

If you were to get the 23:40 from Donabate to Rush and Lusk, there is no facility to buy a ticket on the train.

Its not your fault if they never collect the fare.

Pete4779

BogWog wrote: »

I had no idea how serious they were about not having a ticket on the train in Dublin. I took the train for the 3rd time in my life to go to Balbriggan and I didn't even know they had ticket machines these days so I just walked in since there was nobody selling tickets and the ticket inspector came on the train and instead of letting me pay the fare the ****er gave me a 50 euro fine.

I thought I could sneak my way out of it by not showing him any ID but he called the Gardai to get them to verify my address. The Gards already knew my address so its a good thing I didn't give him the ticket inspector a fake address. Ireland isn't the laid back easy going country it used to be.

Yeah it's strange to have to pay for a service that isn't free isn't it.