TV License

FX Meister

Not sure if this is the right place but I'll go ahead. Been getting threatening letters as we haven't paid the tv license in our apartment this year. We don't have a TV in the living room anymore and the only TV is in my bedroom which I use to watch DVD's and not any broadcast TV. I know the rules state that if it's capable or receiving a tv signal you have to have a license but I don't agree with this which is why I don't want to pay. I can't understand why I have to run TV channels that I have no interest in watching. So what's my best course of action? Do I ignore the letters or reply that we no longer have a TV. What powers does the inspector have to search my apartment? I've heard he can only enter one room but maybe this is just urban legend. Any help appreciated.

Mossy Monk

FX Meister wrote: »

I know the rules state that if it's capable or receiving a tv signal you have to have a license but I don't agree with this which is why I don't want to pay. I can't understand why I have to run TV channels that I have no interest in watching. So what's my best course of action?

I don't agree with many laws either but I still have to live with them. Best course of action is to watch them on a PC and get rid of your TV.

FX Meister

I'm not going to ditch the tv. I'll just hide it every time there's a knock at the door.

Elmo

I'm not going to ditch the tv. I'll just hide it every time there's a knock at the door.

Get a solicitor to bring the TV licence people to court.

watty

If the DVD player has no tuner and you destroy the tuner in the TV or get a Security camera Monitor you don't need a licence.

But if a TV has a working tuner or the DVD player or VHS or PC has a tuner then you must have a licence.

It's a tax on having a TV tuner, not on actually watching RTE.


(My DVD player has a tuner )

Elmo

It's a tax on having a TV tuner, not on actually watching RTE.

I know this discussion comes up constantly. But.....

If I have sky/cable and my TV has no tuner do I still have to pay the licence fee? (Lets say I watch my TV from my set top box)

I am sure others have asked this question.

Mossy Monk

Yes you do as the Sky/Cable box will have a tuner.

Elmo

Yes you do as the Sky/Cable box will have a tuner.

But can I tune in TV with out the cable or satellite? I mean to they have a technical definition of what a tuner is in the act because a Network connect is now a tuner effectively. If I get magnet do I need a licence if I dont have a tuner? They are providing RTE 1, 2, TV3, TG4 and Bubble Hits online for free, when you subscribe :rolleyes:

watty

A tuner is anything that provides LIVE feed of Broadcast channels.

Thus a Webcam, while live is not TV.

Repeat of Friends from a US Website is not TV.

Live FoxNews via IP is TV as FoxNews is Broadcast.

Magnet is just cable TV via UDP digital. Sky, UPC digital and Terrestrial Digital use MPEG2-TS as format rather than UDP. Like UDP on IP, the Broadcast MPEG2-TS is stream that can contain any kind of info, not just video.


The act does not specify the delivery/broadcast technology.

Live Mobile TV of BBC or Sky1 via UDP on HSDPA needs a TV licence. Replay of recorded sports or news does not.

Elmo

Do www.tg4.tv and www.rte.ie/live automatically make networkcards/broadband connections Broadcast tuners under the act? Meaning that a TV licence is required for a Network Card?

Sorry I am being thick on purpose on this one.

watty

A TV licence is not generally needed for a Network card.
But if your PC + Network card can connect to a LIVE Broadcast TV quality stream such that you can watch TV, you need a TV licence.

A low resolution youTube type resolution feed is a slightly grey area, but technically if it is LIVE TV of a Broadcast channel, then you need a TV licence.

Hence a suggestion last year to specifically amend the act that ANY mobile phone or Computer that can connect to the Internet require a TV licence. That idea was dumped.

Watching live feed in resolution only suitable for a small window (even though it can be upscalled ) to my mind is hardly TV. But under the current act, technically it is.

Remember the onus is on you to prove you don't watch "real" TV, ever.

I agree that "ordinary" Broadband and Web feed is not real TV. The act is under review and no doubt it needs to more clearly define what is and isn't TV reception. At the minute it is deliberately vague so as to be be a catch all for anything they didn't think off. They don't want loopholes such as Magnet/Smart/Eircom/Homevision IPTV.

watty

A TV licence is not generally needed for a Network card.
But if your PC + Network card can connect to a LIVE Broadcast TV quality stream such that you can watch TV, you need a TV licence.

A low resolution youTube type resolution feed is a slightly grey area, but technically if it is LIVE TV of a Broadcast channel, then you need a TV licence.

Hence a suggestion last year to specifically amend the act that ANY mobile phone or Computer that can connect to the Internet require a TV licence. That idea was dumped.

Watching live feed in resolution only suitable for a small window (even though it can be upscalled ) to my mind is hardly TV. But under the current act, technically it is.

Remember the onus is on you to prove you don't watch "real" TV, ever.

I agree that "ordinary" Broadband and Web feed is not real TV. The act is under review and no doubt it needs to more clearly define what is and isn't TV reception. At the minute it is deliberately vague so as to be be a catch all for anything they didn't think off. They don't want loopholes such as Magnet/Smart/Eircom/Homevision IPTV.

FX Meister

watty wrote: »

If the DVD player has no tuner and you destroy the tuner in the TV or get a Security camera Monitor you don't need a licence.

If the TV is broken you still need a license as it it possible to have the TV repaired.

FX Meister

Charter of Fundamental Human Rights for the European Union states in section 4 paragraph 1 that it's the right of any human to lie to a Television Licence Inspectors at any/all times!

Elmo

Charter of Fundamental Human Rights for the European Union states in section 4 paragraph 1 that it's the right of any human to lie to a Television Licence Inspectors at any/all times!

Doesn't that go againist his human rights?

Thoie

I had a similar argument about TV license last year - I was sick at the time so just gave in and bought one. Basically I don't have a TV in my house, or anything with a tuner. I do have a monitor in my sitting room that I can hook up to a DVD player/games console. I mailed the DCENR about it, and here's the response I got (emphasis is mine).

"The position is that a television set constitutes apparatus for wireless telegraphy as defined in the Broadcasting and Wireless Telegraphy Act 1988. In the Act "Television set" means any apparatus for wireless telegraphy, capable of receiving and exhibiting television programmes broadcast for general reception (whether or not its use for that purpose is dependent on the use of anything else in conjunction therewith) and any assembly comprising such apparatus and other apparatus.

Most computers do not fall into the definition of a television as defined above. They are therefore exempt from any provisions of the television licencing requirements. In your particular circumstance, I’m also unable to say from your description if your PC is capable of receiving a signal so I can’t say for definite if you require a licence.

An Post is an agent of this Department for television licence. The decision of what constitutes a television rather than a PC will rest with An Post. What you should do is email your TV licence Service Office. Ask them for a declaration form to fill in that declares you don’t have a television set as such, explain your dilemma and ask them for a judgement."

Essentially I'm expected to trust a bunch of people who can't even deliver my mail properly to decide on whether my monitor is secretly a TV.

Elmo

Essentially I'm expected to trust a bunch of people who can't even deliver my mail properly to decide on whether my monitor is secretly a TV.

I would contact An Post. They have a separate section for the licence fee. You should have taken the fine and had them bring you to court.

Thoie

Well it's due up again now (end of August) and I haven't paid - that mail was from a few months ago. I wasn't really in any position to do much last year, but I've already started sending some mails.

FX Meister

I got that declartion thing in the post and we sent it off. See what happens now I guess

thebadbuzz

Ok. First of all let me say that I strongly disagree with the whole idea of the current TV licence. It has no place in 21st centaury Ireland and is currently being used to keep afloat a woefully ill-managed company and in particular to pay certain completely talentless TV hosts and presenters obscene salaries. We all know who I mean

In fact I believe it is corruption that still allows the TV licence to exist. It is a topic that no politician is willing to tackle which is exactly how certain officials want to keep it. The increase year after year is approved by government without question.

While I do not agree with this TV licence, I do not condone any person who refuses to pay for one and thus breaks the law. We must obey our own laws but this does not mean we should not try to change them. This is our country after all and we have the right and obligation to change it according to our own beliefs. So get typing to your local representatives. Do not consider this to be an evil tax that simply exists and must be paid. We can and should change this.

And to all the shams who reply with the likes of 'just get one you sponger' or 'if you don’t want to pay then throw out your TV' we all know you just licence inspectors trying to fueling the propaganda.

Finally, those licence ads!!!! It is completely insulting, patronizing and enraging to watch these attempts at scaremongering.

Elmo

thebadbuzz wrote: »

Ok. First of all let me say that I strongly disagree with the whole idea of the current TV licence. It has no place in 21st centaury Ireland and is currently being used to keep afloat a woefully ill-managed company and in particular to pay certain completely talentless TV hosts and presenters obscene salaries. We all know who I mean

In fact I believe it is corruption that still allows the TV licence to exist. It is a topic that no politician is willing to tackle which is exactly how certain officials want to keep it. The increase year after year is approved by government without question.

While I do not agree with this TV licence, I do not condone any person who refuses to pay for one and thus breaks the law. We must obey our own laws but this does not mean we should not try to change them. This is our country after all and we have the right and obligation to change it according to our own beliefs. So get typing to your local representatives. Do not consider this to be an evil tax that simply exists and must be paid. We can and should change this.

And to all the shams who reply with the likes of 'just get one you sponger' or 'if you don’t want to pay then throw out your TV' we all know you just licence inspectors trying to fueling the propaganda.

Finally, those licence ads!!!! It is completely insulting, patronizing and enraging to watch these attempts at scaremongering.

Firstly this is kind of off the topic. Secondly I would really like to know how you suggest funding television production in Ireland. and Finally
I don't see how it is corput do you think the ministers get a back hander from RTE???? They don't do it without question they look for certain criteria before giving it, it is only recently that it was indexed with inflation previously it hadn't had an increase in 10 years AFAIK. (Pre 2002)

We don't have a right or an obligation as good citizens to change the laws according to our own beleives, we all have different beleifes, that is why we have elections and referdums. I mean there are several more important issues that I can think of that only the government can change.

You will also find that RTE is not considered a wowful ill managed company around Europe.

You haven't seen the current set of TV Licence Ads.

watty

The tolls on roads is x20 more evil than TV licence. Motorists already pay 6,000,000,000 Euro in direct road related tax excluding tolls. If every household paid TV licence it would be still be less than 300,000,000. (The M50 Toll alone is over 60,000,000 and 30% is wasted in collection cost).

Why shouldn't there be a TV tax? Countries that don't have one (e.g. USA) typically have rubbish TV and even worse PSB outfits.

thebadbuzz

just to get back to ye elmo and watty:
you're correct, definately a bit off topic here alright.

how to fund them?: through advertising and good company management. Rte receive a licence fee aswell as have revenue from advertising. BBC for example have no revenue from advertising and they are successful from their licence fee. Some shows RTE produce I admit are good like prime time and sports coverage for example. However I think paying over 1600 euro over a ten year period is way to expensive for this kind of service.

There are definately more important issues of course, but I think the licence fee is a prime example of a law desperately in need of reform. The average homeowner has over 60 channels in their home these days and they are expected to pay a huge amount for 3 channels in particular? And no im not saying there are backhanders being given, but there are other ways to excert influence in politics. Sure we all have different beliefs and opinions but for policies to be changed/implemented common consensus needs to be formed from a grassroots level up. It just annoys me when people give out about things and think they cannot change anything.

Also Im pretty sure I have seen the new set. Is the one in the office one of them???

As for road tolls, im in favour of them actually. I think you should be taxed more the more you drive. However, I think the M50 is quite an evil toll alright, since there is no reasonable alternative parallel road. Also, Id love to know where your pulling those figures from!! im not saying they;re wrong or anything like....

Elmo

how to fund them?: through advertising and good company management. Rte receive a licence fee aswell as have revenue from advertising. BBC for example have no revenue from advertising and they are successful from their licence fee. Some shows RTE produce I admit are good like prime time and sports coverage for example. However I think paying over 1600 euro over a ten year period is way to expensive for this kind of service.

Oh no he/she mentioned the BBC. Tut tut tut. Here I go again. How commercial are the BBC? Well in a word ..... VERY. (

Do tell! <<<< sorry I am just getting a bit tired of the subject, nothing to do with you thebadbuzz.
1. The BBC own 50% of UKTV, they show adds during most of the BBC's back catalog of shows. (You know Dave etc.)
2. The BBC sell programming abroad (e.g. EastEnders to RTE etc)
3. The BBC own a huge amount of publications (e.g. Radio Times, Lonely Planet)
4. The BBC own a number of TV stations around the world which aid with their "Public Service" remit e.g. BBC America, Canada etc
5. They sell huge numbers of their shows on DVD.
6. www.bbc.co.uk sell advertising for people viewing the site outside of the UK.

Hugely commercial and on top of it all they have 20,000,000 homes paying a license fee.

Paying RTE under a 50c a day is value for money, it's always good to use your statistics to up your argument

RTE provide the following services: RTE ONE, RTE TWO, RTE RADIO 1, RTE 2FM, RTE LYRIC FM, RTE RNAG, RTE Cor na nOg, RTE NCO, RTE QUARTET, THE RTE GUIDE. and around 6,000,000 to TG4 and another 6,000,000 to the BCI.

I don't work for RTE but just don't compare RTE to the BBC.

Also Im pretty sure I have seen the new set. Is the one in the office one of them???

And the one in the student flat, I think they are quite good.

The tolls are totally of subject but ..... lol ...... Why don't they record your car going through the toll and at the end of the year add the years use of the toll to your road tax? and lets say you use it a lot then it would be cheaper then for someone who uses it rarely. Just a suggestion after all they have your details on file already. <<<< Answers on a post card to Noel Dempsey ...

thebadbuzz

ok fair enough, youre right i shouldnt have used bbc as a comparison but I just mentioned it to illustrate the point that on their main stream programming (disregarding dave) there is no advertising. probably if there was no licence fee there would be advertising i suppose. rte have major double revenue that way.

as i mentioned, i do like some of the stuff that rte do, anything that can help keep the irish language alive is good in my opinion. but largely i feel that i do not get value for money which is why i have a problem with the licence fee overall.

i do find the ads insulting though, they always depict the people who dont pay for their licence as fumbling idiots and try to force the image that you are somehow a social outcast or that its extreemly embarrasing if you dont pay up. very childish really i think.

i think the barrier free here is good in theory because as we said it charges more tax for those who actually use the roads more. in switzerland you have to pay a yearly charge to use the motorways but it does not defrenciate between the person who uses it daily and the person who uses it rarely as far as i know although i could be wrong on this.

tbb

Elmo

ok fair enough, youre right i shouldnt have used bbc as a comparison but I just mentioned it to illustrate the point that on their main stream programming (disregarding dave) there is no advertising. probably if there was no licence fee there would be advertising i suppose. rte have major double revenue that way.

All UKTV www.uktv.co.uk not just Dave.

RTE earn 300 million from license fees and advertising (not including radio advertising). They are not allowed sell as many minutes of adds as TV3.