Zeroing a rifle

Mellor

Help Needed.

Hoping somebody can help me.
I've only got shotgun expierence.
From reading on boards, i've grown a keen interest in rifles, both target and hunting.
I find myself more and more interest in rifles lately, the other day I was knocking about the internet and relised that I had spent the last hour reading stats and spec on various rifle rounds, from .22lr, various .220 CR rounds, right up to military/sniper rounds. I also relised this wasn't the first time.
My, uncle has a .22lr, and I could probably get a lend of it and go to the range to try before I buy. But, I have zero practical expierence.
So I have a few questions, I am hoping that somebody here can help, or point me to where I can find out.

I know the basic working of a rifle, at least I think I do. Basic Iron sights are straight forward. I fall down alot on the scope
I understand the idea of parabolic flightpath and the principle of a rifle being zero'd at a set range (of a paticular round)
But I don't know how to zero a rifle. Nor do I know how to use the elevation and windage turrets (correct names?). I understand the basics, that the elevation turret adjusts the angle to alter the zero'd POI. I just don't know how to use it practically,

Any help guys?

IRLConor

I haven't zeroed a scope in years, but in general "sighting in" for me means:

1. Hit the paper target, anywhere is OK, just so long as you can see where your shots are landing.
2. Aim at the centre of the target and put 3+ rounds into it. See if you get a recognisable group somewhere on the paper. If you don't get a group all the zeroing in the world won't help, you need to improve your technique to the point at which you can shoot predictably.
3. Once you have a group, adjust the sights in the appropriate direction to move the group towards the centre and shoot another group. Repeat until the group is approximately in the centre. If you're just starting out, it might be easier to adjust the windage and elevation completely independently. In other words, get the group at the right height on the target first and then move it left/right or vice-versa.

Hagar

Simplest explanation I ever head was as follows:

Shot a group then move the cross hairs till they coincide with the point of impact.

Mellor

Thanks, i guessed that was the way to do it
Is it just a case of remembering where zero is after that, say if I adjust elevation for a shot, to turn it back to position X for zero at 75m

IRLConor

Mellor wrote: »

Thanks, i guessed that was the way to do it
Is it just a case of remembering where zero is after that, say if I adjust elevation for a shot, to turn it back to position X for zero at 75m

Best sort out zeroing for a fixed distance first and then move on to adjusting for different distances.

jaycee

Not a difficult job at all and essential for both your enjoyment , accuracy and safety .

In fairness , any range worth its salt will have trained range officers present on the firing line that will be only too glad to help zero for you , and explain the process in detail .

It is in everyones interest .. to see you shooting where you are aiming and safely enjoying your sport .

Ring in advance , or at least on arrival request that someone check your zero BEFORE you shoot . You will gain respect and peace of mind in return .

Sparks

And in case you don't know what boresighting is, that'd be a sign that you need to ask for help. Don't let your ego lead you into a bad accident, just ask. You might learn something new.

Vegeta

Hagar wrote: »

Shot a group then move the cross hairs till they coincide with the point of impact.

Nicely put.

meathstevie

Mellor, invest in a boresighter. They're not too expensive and it will get you on paper from the start. After that you'll be doing mainly a bit of fine tuning getting your point of impact and view through the scope to coincide.

The beauty of those boresighters isn't only that. Once your rifle rifle is zeroed you can stick the boresighter back op the spout, note the exact spot on the grid where your crosshairs are pointing and rezeroing ever after is as simple as dialing the crosshairs back to the same spot on the grid.

macnab

Just a few observations here, a standard .22 lr scope will be set to zero and not touched again unless the zero is off, it sounds to me like you are thinking of resetting your scope in the field for different distances, thats what they do in the movies not in real life, unless you are spending maga bucks on a sniper type scope...you zero your rifle for say 60 yards, that will leave you about 1" high at 20 yards, 1.5" low at 70 yards, 3" low at 90 yards, 7" low at 100 yards etc. I usually zero my .22 CZ452 with a sub sonic round at 20 yards, ie it should fire 1" high at this range. After that its up to the shooter to estimate the distance and "hold over" if the target is over 60 yards. I am not an expert but this works for me. Have a look at the link for some reading.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.22_Long_Rifle

riflehunter77

This might be of some help to you Mellor

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HF3LCwrN3HY

Screaming Eagle

Hagar wrote: »

Simplest explanation I ever head was as follows:

Shot a group then move the cross hairs till they coincide with the point of impact.

That is pretty much what I do. But I use a vice in the back of a van to hold the rifle to get my grouping first, at a set distance. Works very well.

Mellor

macnab wrote: »

Just a few observations here, a standard .22 lr scope will be set to zero and not touched again unless the zero is off, it sounds to me like you are thinking of resetting your scope in the field for different distances, thats what they do in the movies not in real life, unless you are spending maga bucks on a sniper type scope...you zero your rifle for say 60 yards, that will leave you about 1" high at 20 yards, 1.5" low at 70 yards, 3" low at 90 yards, 7" low at 100 yards etc. I usually zero my .22 CZ452 with a sub sonic round at 20 yards, ie it should fire 1" high at this range. After that its up to the shooter to estimate the distance and "hold over" if the target is over 60 yards. I am not an expert but this works for me. Have a look at the link for some reading.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.22_Long_Rifle

you misunderstood.
For the 22lr, it just to know how how to zero,

but I also want to know the theory behind adjusting for elevarion and windage. Not for use with e 22lr, but just to know (might use it with much longer range rifle, but baby steps first)

jaycee

Mellor wrote: »

you misunderstood.
For the 22lr, it just to know how how to zero,

but I also want to know the theory behind adjusting for elevarion and windage. Not for use with e 22lr, but just to know (might use it with much longer range rifle, but baby steps first)

Then it is all the more important you sit beside someone who fully understands the theory and its practical application as i said earlier .

There is also a difference between a bore sighter , and bore sighting ...
One ( a boresighter ) ...is a device of variable reliability which requires a good understanding of how it works and what your supposed to be doing with it .

Bore sighting , is the first safe step in making sure that your scope and barrel are roughly pointed in the right direction, it is accomplished by having the rifle on a rock steady rest , and having removed the bolt , looking down the inside of the barrel to make sure it is aligned with your target . You then , without moving the rifle, lift your head so you can see though the scope to check before you ever fire a shot that the crosshairs are pretty close to where your barrel is pointing . Its not a difficult skill , but an important one which requires practice to get right .

There are many steps before you even get to bore sight a rifle , making sure your scopemounts are fitted properly and the correct way around , fitted securely , and of good quality.

Often when you fit a scope in the rings they can be slightly out of alignment , this can damage the scope badly . Over tightening can also cause damage , too loose and your zero will shift . The cross hairs need to be absolutely vertical to the centerline of the bore or it will cause all sorts of errors from canting .

Knowing how to find the optical center of your scope before fitting it is important as is choosing the correct mount height and eye relief or shooting will be uncomfortable and unsteady.

Even reputable brands of scopes have been known to be faulty , even when new , it happens , and you need a little experience to spot it sometimes.

Then you can have your scope zeroed ....!!


As to the issue of vertical adjustments and windage , it depends on the calibre , the firearm being used , the conditions and the manner in which your scope is calibrated , some turret clicks are 1/4 inch , or more correctly 1/4 min of angle . A minute of angle roughly translates to being an inch at 100 yards , 2 inches at 200 and so on .. So a 1/4 min adjustment will move the poi .. a quarter of an inch at 100 yards , half an inch at 200 and so on..

Rifles are best sighted in on calm days where you would set the windage adjustment to zero . Wind reading and estimating how much you need to compensate left or right in gusting winds is a whole different set of skills on which many books are written and many tears shed .
Long distance competitions are won or lost on the skill of making those estimates and it takes a long long time to start to get a feel for it .

None of this is intended in any way to sound overly complicated , in fact it is a pretty simplified outline of the things to be considered . Therefore I hope you can see the sense of sitting beside someone with training and experience to make sure you start off on the right foot .

Best of luck with your shooting .

Vegeta

Mellor wrote: »

you misunderstood.
For the 22lr, it just to know how how to zero,

but I also want to know the theory behind adjusting for elevarion and windage. Not for use with e 22lr, but just to know (might use it with much longer range rifle, but baby steps first)

Ok right jaycee has made a decent post above but I think what you are after is some sort of ballistic edu-macation and how to use the scope to tie this all together.

Its hard to put it simply without leaving something out and I am by no means an expert in longe range shooting, ballistics or terminology.

As the lads have pointed out already there are generally 2 approaches to zeroing and using scopes.
A lot of hunters used the fixed zero and point blank method. Most hunting is very dynamic so you don't always get time to unscrew caps, do some quick calculations in your head, twist some knobs and then shoot. So they never adjust their scopes after the initial zero (unless of course they change ammo brand or the rifle/scope lose zero).

Now what you are talking about is more akin to how target shooters or long range varmint hunters would use a scope/rifle
To do this properly you need to know your ammo inside out and backwards. For elevation it aint too bad. Get out and shoot your rifle (safely) and make some drop charts.
Lets say your rifle is zeroed at 100 yards (which you know how to do). Assuming the range is flat and the weather is very still, without using any hold over or under then shoot at say 200 yards. You bring in your target and see the rounds are 2 inches low. That's approx 1moa (200 yards divided by 2inches, ease calculation for sake of discussion :P) which depending on your scope could be four clicks (1/4moa adjustment turrets) or it could be eight clicks (1/8 moa adjustment turrets). So you can twist the turrets in the correct direction the appropriate number of clicks and then shoot at 200 again and see is it correct. When your satisfied with this then record everything in a little notebook and twist the turrets back so you are again at your known 100 yard zero.

So now you know your scope is zeroed for 100 yards. If out in the field or at a competition and someone asked you to shoot at 200 yards you know how many clicks up it would take to get you bang on at 200.

You rinse and repeat using what you have learned already for all the other ranges you will have to shoot. Then you have a written record of how your ammo perfroms at various ranges and how many clicks from your initial 100 yard zero to get you on target at those ranges.

There are software ballistic calculators which do this using characteristics of your round but they are not as certain as getting out there and doing it yourself but they can be a good starting point. Few things to note here, you need a good scope. Some scopes have turrets which when zeroed, the turrets can be loosened with an alan key or similar and set in a 0 position and then retightened. This way if you forget to dial back in your original zero you can simply twist it back to the 0 position. Also you need a scope with enough moa adjustments. Say if someone asked you to shoot at 1000 yards, the scope may actually physically run out of clicks trying to twist it up that far. That's why some scope mounting rails come with a few moa built in.


Windage is much more difficult and as jaycee points out needs more experience. Some people hold left and right for the wind and some people use the turrets. Its not as clean and clinical as the science behind a dropping bullet in known conditions. Shoot and observe

I would not for one second suggest I can do this accurately. My performace at a steel plate recently at 470 yards with the .223 is prime example, couldn't hit it for love nor money........and it was a big plate.

Clear as mud?

Mellor

Thanks lads, its helps alot.
Vegeta, you're right long range varmint and steel palte was what I was thinking of.

I was thinking of balistic data, (i'm a maths fiend), but on seconds thought, you're right, there are way too many variables.
Trial, error, and note book sounds best.

I'll forget about windage for now, only starting to get ahead of myself. An expeirance approach is probably best. Besides, the wind at the shooter, the halfway point, and the target may all be different sppeds at directions (at longer ranges), so all the calcs in the world wont help

Thnaks again,

tiny-nioclas

That midway usa youtube channel has some great videos for general gun questions people have

Vegeta

Mellor wrote: »

I'll forget about windage for now, only starting to get ahead of myself. An expeirance approach is probably best. Besides, the wind at the shooter, the halfway point, and the target may all be different sppeds at directions (at longer ranges), so all the calcs in the world wont help

I would be doing this type of shooting much more regularly if it would just stop bloody raining.

One of the biggest issues is getting a steady supply of decent ammo. Come on reloading (crosses fingers)

Sparks

Vegeta wrote: »

I would be doing this type of shooting much more regularly if it would just stop bloody raining.

Rain damps down wind because wet air is lighter than dry air per unit volume (I know, counterintuitive, but that's gases for you). So stop whinging and get out there ye big girls blouse

Vegeta

Sparks wrote: »

Rain damps down wind because wet air is lighter than dry air per unit volume (I know, counterintuitive, but that's gases for you). So stop whinging and get out there ye big girls blouse

The problem is my blouse just doesn't keep out the rain as well as it used to. Its mainly the gear getting wet that I hate.

Rifle, cases, ammo boxes. Everything I bring really.

I can wrap up and stay bone dry but its tough on the gear. (yes it can take it but the cleaning work tripples and its less fun)

I may do something about this. hmmmmmmm