GE Force 9600

Biro

Any of you more experienced guys out there have an opinion on this?
http://www.dabs.ie/ProductView.aspx?Quicklinx=50WS&CategorySelectedId=11021&PageMode=1&InMerch=1

Good for the price or a bit of a dud card? Core clock speed and memory clock speed fair up well with the competition.

duridian

Nothing wrong as such with 9600GT, but the ATI HD4850 at around €30 more is significantly more powerful and I think is considered the best bang per buck in the midrange cards at the mo.
HD4850 on Dabs

from Anandtech's first look at HD4850

For starters, the Radeon HD 4850 looks to be the best buy at $199, even better than NVIDIA's price-dropped GeForce 9800 GTX. What's also unbelievable is that compared to the 4850, our beloved GeForce 8800 GT seems downright slow in a number of benchmarks - and the 8800 GT is only 8 months old.

9600GT is about the same performance as 8800GT, HD4850 is more comparable to 9800GTX, except it's a cheaper.

Biro

duridian wrote: »

Nothing wrong as such with 9600GT, but the ATI HD4850 at around €30 more is significantly more powerful and I think is considered the best bang per buck in the midrange cards at the mo.
HD4850 on Dabs

from Anandtech's first look at HD4850


9600GT is about the same performance as 8800GT, HD4850 is more comparable to 9800GTX, except it's a cheaper.

Thanks for the reply. It's stretching the budget a bit, but if it's better then I might make the jump!
Just another question - looking at your dabs link there, it lists 5 4850 cards. 4 of them are almost the same price with 2 @ 1gb and 2 @ 512mb. Seeing as the site doesn't seem to give much more details on any of them, which would be the pick of that lot?
Also, most I see require a 400w powersupply. Mine is 380w. Is it safe to assume this will be sufficient providing I don't have the PC filled with any other power draining perhiperals?

uberpixie

Biro wrote: »

Thanks for the reply. It's stretching the budget a bit, but if it's better then I might make the jump!
Just another question - looking at your dabs link there, it lists 5 4850 cards. 4 of them are almost the same price with 2 @ 1gb and 2 @ 512mb. Seeing as the site doesn't seem to give much more details on any of them, which would be the pick of that lot?
Also, most I see require a 400w powersupply. Mine is 380w. Is it safe to assume this will be sufficient providing I don't have the PC filled with any other power draining perhiperals?

If iti is a good quailty 380W you will get away with it. My brothers are getting away with a 350 FSP PSU on a core2duo + 8800GT.

In relation the the brand of the cards: only differenc will be warranties. All are bog standard are prob come with nothing more than cables and adaptors. No free game etc.. So Pick a brand you trust. Its all the one.

duridian

I'd be inclined to go for this 4850 if I was buying, simply because it is a factory overclocked edition (@700MHz core instead of the standard 625MHz). It also has the larger 1GB RAM and it seems to have a Zalman cooler fitted as well, which is also nice and should cool it well.

You are very much borderline with a 380W power supply, if it is a decent make you should be able to get by. (Some good makes for eg. Fortron, Antec, Seasonic, Tagan, Enermax, Corsair, Coolermaster, PCPower&Cooling, Akasa, Thermaltake, OCZ, Hiper, Gigabyte, Zalman ) If it is a generic model it can be hit and miss, some are okay, others aren't. Last of all if it is a Qtec power supply, you may as well just pour lighter fluid into the pc and crack a match off the motherboard

Seriously though, if you are fairly familiar with the components inside your pc, then try this online PSU requirements calculator and see what recommendation it gives you.
http://www.extreme.outervision.com/psucalculatorlite.jsp

Spunge

how come on dabs they have the gigabyte 512MB and 1GB 4850 but they are the same price (well 1GB is 1 euro cheaper).

Biro

duridian wrote: »

I'd be inclined to go for this 4850 if I was buying, simply because it is a factory overclocked edition (@700MHz core instead of the standard 625MHz). It also has the larger 1GB RAM and it seems to have a Zalman cooler fitted as well, which is also nice and should cool it well.

You are very much borderline with a 380W power supply, if it is a decent make you should be able to get by. (Some good makes for eg. Fortron, Antec, Seasonic, Tagan, Enermax, Corsair, Coolermaster, PCPower&Cooling, Akasa, Thermaltake, OCZ, Hiper, Gigabyte, Zalman ) If it is a generic model it can be hit and miss, some are okay, others aren't. Last of all if it is a Qtec power supply, you may as well just pour lighter fluid into the pc and crack a match off the motherboard

Seriously though, if you are fairly familiar with the components inside your pc, then try this online PSU requirements calculator and see what recommendation it gives you.
http://www.extreme.outervision.com/psucalculatorlite.jsp

Balls, I just checked a similar machine here and it has a 305W power supply, so I'm thinking that's what mine might be. Although it may have been replaced, 380W is in my head somehow.
Anyway, it's a Dell Optiplex that I have. (I know, I know... ), and using that above useful link it says I use 256W.
Knowing that Dell often customise their stuff to the point where it can't be replaced, what's the risk of not enough power? Can it b0llox up components or will Windows just give some weird error when one of the components just doesn't work because of lack of power?

duridian

Biro wrote: »

Balls, I just checked a similar machine here and it has a 305W power supply, so I'm thinking that's what mine might be. Although it may have been replaced, 380W is in my head somehow.
Anyway, it's a Dell Optiplex that I have. (I know, I know... ), and using that above useful link it says I use 256W.
Knowing that Dell often customise their stuff to the point where it can't be replaced, what's the risk of not enough power? Can it b0llox up components or will Windows just give some weird error when one of the components just doesn't work because of lack of power?

I'm assuming you have one of the more modern Optiplexes which are BTX in design. Having Googled a bit, I'm beginning to wonder if the black air conducting shroud inside the Optiplex might get in the way if you have a long video card. Check out how much room you have from the shroud to the back of the case. It would be a disaster to buy a card that won't fit. BTW This is a pic of a normal tower Optiplex. If you have a slimline Optiplex then you are also limited to low profile cards.

Biro

duridian wrote: »

I'm assuming you have one of the more modern Optiplexes which are BTX in design. Having Googled a bit, I'm beginning to wonder if the black air conducting shroud inside the Optiplex might get in the way if you have a long video card. Check out how much room you have from the shroud to the back of the case. It would be a disaster to buy a card that won't fit. BTW This is a pic of a normal tower Optiplex. If you have a slimline Optiplex then you are also limited to low profile cards.

Yep, it's a GX620, tower, so don't need a low profile card. I was wondering about that alright when I saw the length of the cards in pictures, but the PCI-x slot is just below the end of the plastic air conducting piece, so I'm thinking it'll fit.
However, I realised that it's a 305W power supply, which is a balls. I don't know if a third party one will fit.

duridian

If this is your machine, then it looks like you're in luck: (rather useful and nifty little Java 3D thingy showing the GX620 in this link BTW)
http://www.dell.com/html/us/products/optiplex/gx620.html

Gotta run at the moment, I'll be back to post more in about an hour or so.

Biro

That's the one alright!! Good find!
Here's a pic I took of that area, so looks like it'll take a card alright. Now to worry about power!

duridian

Ok, as I was saying, you seem to have a good candidate for a PSU upgrade as the screw holes are in the standard position, so any regular brand should fit the GX620 case without problems.
Here are a few relevant links I was looking at.
http://www.tomshardware.co.uk/forum/210472-10-replace-dell-optiplex-gx620-305w
http://support.dell.com/support/edocs/systems/opgx620/en/ug/A02/mtpwrspl.htm#wp1109155
http://support.dell.com/support/edocs/systems/opgx620/en/ug/A02/mtcards0.htm#wp1105095

Now there is one more consideration if you go for the HD4850. The card will need an auxilliary 6-pin power connector that your existing power supply doesn't appear to have. This connector is also necessary if you bought a 9600GT so one way or another, whatever of these cards you go for, you need it.

As I see it these are your options:

1. Buy the Gigabyte HD4850, take a chance on the Dell PSU having enough watts for the card, and buy one of these adaptors which will convert your two "old type" hard drive power connectors (molex) to the 6-pin connector that you need.
This is only feasible if you have 2 idle molex connectors!!!
Total expenditure ~€163 + delivery.
Pros: Most bang per buck.
Cons: Not a guarantee of success, totally dependent on the Dell PSU ability!
Could potentially damage your new gfx card and computer if not enough juice.

2. Same as option 1, but get the 9600GT, that you were looking at initially, instead of the HD4850, plus again the adaptor.
Again only feasible with 2 idle molex!!
Total expenditure ~€123 + delivery.
Pros: Cheapest possible option.
Cons: Not a guarantee of success, totally dependent on Dell PSU ability!
Could potentially damage your new gfx card and computer if not enough juice.

3. Buy the Gigabyte HD4850. Get a power supply that can definitely handle the card. Looking through Dabs this 500watt from OCZ at ~€55 would be what I'd go for, though there are a few other decent ones also around this price point. There is a Gigabyte power supply for about €34, that while tempting in price, might not be as good as the model name suggests. Model is "Superb 460", but apparently it is only a 400watter! That's just too close for comfort to be sure of success.
I thnk the OCZ would be a very safe choice, a good brand, it should definitely have enough oomph, and would very likely survive to maybe also be used in your next PC when the time comes.
Total expenditure ~€215 + delivery
Pros: Should work perfectly and have enough power for everything.
Cons: Expensive, but the PSU could always be reused again down the line in a newer PC!

4. Same power supply option as 3., but get the 9600GT, that you were looking at initially, instead of the HD4850.
Total expenditure ~€165 + delivery.
Pros: Should work perfectly and have enough power for everything. Most affordable, guaranteed succesful option.
Cons: Settling for a slightly less powerful gfx card.

5. Jump to Komplett instead of Dabs and maybe consider using one of these yokes in conjunction with the Dell PSU. And as a gfx card either €155 (out of stock at present) HD4850 or €170 in stock HD4850 or €101 in stock 9600GT.
Probably be better to get the "normal" PSU, but thought I should point out that VGA only PSUs are also available, so that even if the Dell needed a main power supply that was shaped like Darth Vader's head, there are still ways for you to upgrade your graphics.

duridian

One more afterthought having looked at the pic you posted.
Remember because your Dell is BTX, the gfx card cooler fan will be on top, rather than beneath it as it would be in the more commonly seen ATX design.
With this in mind are you still certain that a long card won't clash with the shroud?

Biro

duridian wrote: »

One more afterthought having looked at the pic you posted.
Remember because your Dell is BTX, the gfx card cooler fan will be on top, rather than beneath it as it would be in the more commonly seen ATX design.
With this in mind are you still certain that a long card won't clash with the shroud?

Duridian - you've been promoted to legend status effective immediately!! Excellent info and research there, fair play!! Thanks!
OK, so after further investigating I've found the following :
Options 1 and 2 are out as there is only 1 free molex.
It's looking like I should get the "normal" PSU rather than the auxillary one, seeing as they're the same price anyway and it looks like the normal PSU will fit.
That narrows things down a bit. So I now know that I need to upgrade the PSU. I need to decide on the 9600 or 4850. The 4850 is at least 40% more expensive, and I'm not sure if it's 40% quicker! So I'm thinking on that one, I'm swaying to the 4850 however.
Then there's the question above, the case of it fitting beside the shroud. I took another look. It'll be tight, but there is some room there (assuming the card isn't too thick). Also there is some room for modification (with a hacksaw!) on the shrowd without affecting it's function, and by the looks of it the GPU fan won't be covered by the shrowd anyway (well, maybe the last 10% of it, but again - hacksaw!! (I am reasonably careful and accurate when it comes to these butchering operations!)).
OK - so at the end of the day my budget has to increase to include the PSU, so maybe save for another month and get the PSU and the 1GB 4850 from dabs might be the best option, and maybe a small hacksaw from B&Q also! How does that sound?

duridian

Biro wrote: »

OK - so at the end of the day my budget has to increase to include the PSU, so maybe save for another month and get the PSU and the 1GB 4850 from dabs might be the best option, and maybe a small hacksaw from B&Q also! How does that sound?

Yes, that is probably the best option if you have the patience to wait and save a few quid extra. Like I said a decent PSU can always be used again in your next PC when the time comes, and the Optiplex' own PSU popped back in if you wanted to sell it on.
Good luck with it.

Biro

duridian wrote: »

Yes, that is probably the best option if you have the patience to wait and save a few quid extra. Like I said a decent PSU can always be used again in your next PC when the time comes, and the Optiplex' own PSU popped back in if you wanted to sell it on.
Good luck with it.

Thanks! And thanks for your help and info digging.