Rest Of Ireland XV Vs Kilkenny?

cson

They'd just about give them a decent match I think. The pick of Cork-Tipp-Waterford-Galway-Limerick-Wexford-Clare-Offaly would be the only chance of beating this Kilkenny team.

Absolutely head and shoulders above the rest. They're in a different Universe nevermind Planet to the rest of them.

pickarooney

Doubt it, they'd need a long time training together first at least.

BlaasForRafa

The kilkenny subs could probably beat nearly every county team, thats another scary thing about them.

evil-monkey

BlaasForRafa wrote: »

The kilkenny subs could probably beat nearly every county team, thats another scary thing about them.

+1

aidan24326

cson wrote: »

They'd just about give them a decent match I think. The pick of Cork-Tipp-Waterford-Galway-Limerick-Wexford-Clare-Offaly would be the only chance of beating this Kilkenny team.

Absolutely head and shoulders above the rest. They're in a different Universe nevermind Planet to the rest of them.

That's what it would take at the moment alright. I agree that they are in a different universe and they must already be odds-on to do the 4 in a row next year. What's really frightening is that even the pick of Ireland might not have beaten them today. Even allowing for Waterford's inadequacies on the day, this was still one of the most complete team performances I've ever seen in any sport.

It's not that Tipp, Waterford, Cork and the rest are bad teams, KK have just gone up to another level and could win 5 or 6 in a row at this rate. Having so many good young players coming through ensures stiff competition for places and keeps that hunger going.

We should mention Cody too whose hunger to win is unparalleled and you can bet he'll be back again next year driving them on to win another title.

cson

Thats the point I made in the other thread, the other teams are decent its just Kilkenny are so far ahead of the rest. Again, its like Man Utd playing in Division 1.

djScarey

Let's not get too far carried away here. There are some great hurlers in other counties, who would walk onto the Kilkenny panel and some onto the team. Waterford's problem was they didn't have enough of them or they were past their sell-by date. Not unlike Cork, who are also in transition. A lot of credit goes to Cody for motivation, fitness levels and creating a strong team environment. Also the county clubs for maintaining very high standards and consistently giving youth it's chance in Kilkenny to accommodate the county team.

Murtinho

cson wrote: »

Thats the point I made in the other thread, the other teams are decent its just Kilkenny are so far ahead of the rest. Again, its like Man Utd playing in Division 1.

It's like Man Utd v non league, the difference in individual skill was imense, seemed to take the WD boys an age to get the ball under controll.

theheartofalion

it was a bad day for hurling - the 2nd year in a row that the all-ireland final was over by half time.

kilkenny are just miles ahead of everyone else... it's a serious problem for the game.

cork or tipp might give them a game but kilkenny wud still win easily

Deliverance XXV

theheartofalion wrote: »

it was a bad day for hurling

I'm a KK fan out-and-out but this is very true.

Posy

It was a bad day for hurling but many people seem to blame Kilkenny for this. It's up to the other counties to raise their standard because Kilkenny won't lower theirs.
I'd like to see Rest of Irl v Kilkenny. It'd be good to see Kilkenny in a tight game fighting tooth and nail to win!
(my spellchecker doesn't recognise the word 'Kilkenny'. Silly spellchecker!)

hawkwing

Caderyn wrote: »

I'd like to see Rest of Irl v Kilkenny. It'd be good to see Kilkenny in a tight game fighting tooth and nail to win!

Like the league semi in Nowlan Park this year.

Camdec

hawkwing wrote: »

Like the league semi in Nowlan Park this year.

Of course they can be beaten. Tipp did it in the league semi by playing the Kilkenny game - constantly running at them and never giving them a chance to settle. Any team playing them need to do this to have any chance, but first you have to get the ball and keep it, and Waterford didn't do that today

Posy

Well of course they can be, it'd just be good to see the other teams raise their game next year now!

Kojak

Camdec wrote: »

Of course they can be beaten. Tipp did it in the league semi by playing the Kilkenny game - constantly running at them and never giving them a chance to settle.

That method and a higher percentage of ground hurling could be the key to beating this KK team. But we'd have to also consider, are KK fussed about winning the league anymore. A few years ago they had to win the league. Now, IMO, it doesn't matter to them - so I wouldn't read too much into a defeat of KK in the league. Now the championship would be a different story altogether..

A-Bit-Dodge

Its Cody...


The man is just unbelievable...:cool:
I think it was Michael Duignan who said a few months ago that he has actually
taken Kilkenny to such a skillful height that he should just move to some other county and maybe shake up Hurling in the North or Connaght. He is some man like. Fair enough the players, SHefflin, Larkin, Brennan, Tommy Walsh, Delaney, I could go on are some of the best we've seen and the subs bench is even fantastic but they've had the best guidance and development for the past 10 years in Cody and if there's is to be any competition or excitement put back into the championship, we need the Dan Shans, the Diarmuid O'Sullivans, the Eoin Kelly's (literally! :P), the Joe Cannings to be totally on top of their game and their talents
manipulated to be at the same level the cats are at...


That being said, we wont be getting rid of Davey for a few years, he has done wonders in the past few months...

Totally dejected and crushed from yesterday. Never got going and only for Mullanes slight bit of county passion and Eoin Kelly's goal I dont think I could have faced into work today! hahaha.

buck65

Let's not get carried away, Kilkenny destroyed an average team. That's what they have done all year. The quality of hurling outside Kilkenny is woeful, look at Cork Clare Limerick Offaly Wexford and Galway all poor poor sides. Tipp at least resemble a hurling team but were complacent against Waterford.
Would E Murphy, D and S Prendergast , Eoin Mc Grath , even have made the Cork panel of the early 2000s or the Clare team of the 90s? I doubt it. Too many below standard hurlers.
Tony Browne on his day is good, Ken McGrath is far too loose (reminds me of Ciaran Carey) but is a good player, Mullane tries hard , E Kelly is a class act that's about it though. Brick Walsh blows hot and cold.

monosharp

djScarey wrote: »

Let's not get too far carried away here. There are some great hurlers in other counties, who would walk onto the Kilkenny panel and some onto the team. Waterford's problem was they didn't have enough of them or they were past their sell-by date. Not unlike Cork, who are also in transition. A lot of credit goes to Cody for motivation, fitness levels and creating a strong team environment. Also the county clubs for maintaining very high standards and consistently giving youth it's chance in Kilkenny to accommodate the county team.

Walk onto the team ? Or even the panel ?

Have you seen the Kilkenny bench ? Most managers should sell their left nut to have 1 of Kilkenny's subs.

Who would you put on the starting 15 and who would you replace ?

I wouldn't replace a single Kilkenny man with any of the Waterford team. The only player I would say could make it straight onto the Kilkenny team would be Eoin Kelly(Tipp) and maybe Brendan Cummins at a stretch in goals.

Look at the passion of the players from 1 to 15. They have everything.

Other players may have the skill OR the physicality OR the passion OR the athleticism but ALL the Kilkenny players have a balanced inclusion of all 3.

Sully

Lads Kilkenny are good but hardly invinsible now. I honestly think that if a team trained hard enough and was prepared mentally and physically - they could give Kilkenny a right go for the title. But the cats are hell bent on success and thats their only thing in sight, improving the teams overall quality. I'm not so sure other teams have the same feeling, and dont have a manager like Cody driving them to their best ability.

Kilkenny are good, but they wont play like they did in the final all the time. Well, we will wait and see how the next year or two pans out I suppose - but I just dont see Kilkenny as a team nobody else can beat. If they tried hard enough, they could. Thats just how I see it though, and im not doubting Kilkenny for one second in regards to being a brilliant team.

(All us Deise need to do is get that border extended so we can have some of the KK folk on our team )

djScarey

monosharp, the Waterford Eoin kelly certainly has the heart for it, the Tipp one the skill. Yes, Cummins, the two Kellys, but also Canning and Ben O Connor. Out Ryan, Lyng, Power, Comerford, Fogarty. I also think the KK bench would be improved with the likes of Shane McGrath, Cathal Naughton and the much maligned John Mullane. So there's a start.

homerjay2005

i dont know enough about hurling to pick the best 15 outside of kilkenny, but surely a 15 containing the likes of Cummins, Ken Mcgrath,John Gardiner, Tom Kenny, Ben and Gerry O Connor, the 2 Eoin Kellys, Joe Canning, John Mullane and 5 more would rattle them.

monosharp

djScarey wrote: »

monosharp, the Waterford Eoin kelly certainly has the heart for it, the Tipp one the skill.

But Waterford EK is hot and cold, what did he do last year ?
EK of Tipp yes.

Yes, Cummins, the two Kellys, but also Canning and Ben O Connor.

Not waterfords EK.
Joe Canning ? Maybe but you can't say on one performance.
Ben O'Connor. No.

Out Ryan, Lyng, Power, Comerford, Fogarty.

Seriously ? The way these guys play in the team is magnificent even if their individual performances are not.

I also think the KK bench would be improved with the likes of Shane McGrath, Cathal Naughton and the much maligned John Mullane. So there's a start.

So you'd replace all-Ireland medal winners with lads who have none ?

I wholeheartedly agree that they are very good players. Shane McGrath and Mullane can be fantastic on their day.

I still think the only guy who would walk onto the cats starting 15 would be Eoin Kelly (Tipp) and hes a St Kierans man. Coincidence ?

djScarey

monosharp, we'll just have to disagree. Can't say imo Eoin Kelly Tipp has done anything more than the Deise version this year. Reversing it somewhat, I feel those Kilkenny players would NOT knock their counterparts off their relevant county side. I agree the five are great team players for the county and were it Cody, the incumbents would have to prove they are better. You would say no, except Kierans (:D Cody would love your reference) Kelly, I still say all 5 would. Let's see the All Stars this year and will the bigots give the treble winners more than the derogatory six they gave the double winners last year.

hawkwing

"I still think the only guy who would walk onto the cats starting 15 would be Eoin Kelly (Tipp) and hes a St Kierans man. Coincidence ? "
He's been past his best for the last 2 years,not doing much with Mullinahone either except frees to be honest,if you think he is the best hurler on form in the country atm outside Kilkenny you need to look at him more closely i think.

grenache

theheartofalion wrote: »

it was a bad day for hurling - the 2nd year in a row that the all-ireland final was over by half time.

At least Limerick were competitive last year, something which could not be said of Waterford on Sunday.

CyberDave

Kojak wrote: »

That method and a higher percentage of ground hurling could be the key to beating this KK team. But we'd have to also consider, are KK fussed about winning the league anymore. A few years ago they had to win the league. Now, IMO, it doesn't matter to them - so I wouldn't read too much into a defeat of KK in the league. Now the championship would be a different story altogether..

This Kilkenny teams main strength is aerial prowess, especially in their half-back line. We were talking to a guy on Sunday who had a story, that Cody called in a young lad from one of the intermediate teams for training one night. He played well and scored 4 points all from play. Cody called him over afterwards to ask him how he thought he had gotten on. The young lad replied that he thought he did well. Cody replied by telling him, that he hadn't won a single ball above his head and they would give him a call again.

In the past, Cork have bypassed this aerial prowess by using short puckouts. On Sunday, Waterford kept landing their puckouts right down on top of the half-back line. This suited the cats down to the ground. Cork used the tactic of running at Kilkenny in the past and then they just counteracted this by filling the centre with big physical players. No matter what tactic is developed to beat Kilkenny, they will always counteract it eventually because of their natural ability.

premierstone

CyberDave wrote: »

This Kilkenny teams main strength is aerial prowess, especially in their half-back line. We were talking to a guy on Sunday who had a story, that Cody called in a young lad from one of the intermediate teams for training one night. He played well and scored 4 points all from play. Cody called him over afterwards to ask him how he thought he had gotten on. The young lad replied that he thought he did well. Cody replied by telling him, that he hadn't won a single ball above his head and they would give him a call again.

Agree with you about the aerial prowess and i heard a similar story 4 or 5 years ago about cody when he was asked to evaluate potential hurlers and he quite simply said if you can consistently win ball over your head I can teach you the rest!! (Also explains to a certain extent why Charlie Carter was shown the door)

In relation to your second point about Waterford tactics on sunday, not that it would have made any difference, but they were woeful i said it here on previous threads that Davey is a great trainer and motivator but he is absolutely clueless once it comes to tactics and even more inept as soon as the game starts, quite simply he gets far too emotionally involved which makes it impossible to make rational , logical and if need be ruthless decisions.

CyberDave

premierstone wrote: »

Agree with you about the aerial prowess and i heard a similar story 4 or 5 years ago about cody when he was asked to evaluate potential hurlers and he quite simply said if you can consistently win ball over your head I can teach you the rest!! (Also explains to a certain extent why Charlie Carter was shown the door)

And probably why Richie Hogan has been used sparingly throughout the year.

aidan24326

monosharp wrote: »

Joe Canning ? Maybe but you can't say on one performance.

In all fairness Canning has shown his class more than once.

Ben O'Connor. No.

Ben O'Connor WOULD get on the Kilkenny team.

Daysha

grenache wrote: »

At least Limerick were competitive last year, something which could not be said of Waterford on Sunday.

In all fairness, Kilkenny's performance last Sunday was ten times greater than the Limerick match. Had it been Limerick up against them last Sunday, the scoreline wouldn't have differed much

Pigletlover

deise59 wrote: »

In all fairness, Kilkenny's performance last Sunday was ten times greater than the Limerick match. Had it been Limerick up against them last Sunday, the scoreline wouldn't have differed much

It could also be argued that Waterford allowed Kilkenny to hurl ten times greater than they were in the Limerick match, Waterford weren't in the game at all.

Daysha

6 of one half a dozen of the other really

aidan24326

buck65 wrote: »

Let's not get carried away, Kilkenny destroyed an average team. That's what they have done all year. The quality of hurling outside Kilkenny is woeful, look at Cork Clare Limerick Offaly Wexford and Galway all poor poor sides. Tipp at least resemble a hurling team but were complacent against Waterford.

Would agree with you up to a point. As much as KK played superbly they were met with little resistance, and skilful hurlers like them are always liable to run amok when the opposition are so far off the pace. This Waterford team is finished now anyway. They've had their chances over the years and have always come up a bit short. Waterford fans will have to accept that this team just isn't good enough to win an All-Ireland, as us Galway folk had to accept after this year's Cork game that our own team is overrated and carrying a few players who just don't look to be good enough at the top level.

It's hard to see much there to threaten Kilkenny at the moment. Cork have gone back a fair bit and need to rebuild, Galway are the same as ever, all promise and potential but no end product.

Tipp might emerge as serious contenders in the next couple of years but their defeat to Waterford shows that they have a bit to go yet to be a serious challenge to KK.