Rebel songs

CSC

I am interested in hearing what people on this board think of rebel songs e.g. Boys of the Old Brigade, Foggy Dew. Do you people see them as part of the traditional genre or just dirges in support of the IRA?
I find it interesting that bands like The Dubliners are recognised as folk heroes (and rightly so), while bands like The Wolfe Tones get little or no publicity or recognition.
Looking forward in hearing what you all think

garbanzo

Firstly I think those songs are great and that we should be very proud of what they are about and the time they represent. Some good tunes too !

I guess the prob for those types of songs is that they tainted by what was going on in the North during the Troubles. Coupled with the general way in which this country is gradually (and unfortunately) re-assimilating with the UK in terms of our culture and values they are seen by people as unfashionable. Shame.

I never liked The Wolfers as they were too "Green" for me .... they were often described as the musical wing of the IRA. The old joke was that the first act of decommissioning in the '90's was their handing in of a few banjos and fiddles !

That's my two cents worth CSC.

session savage

I agree. I think that rebel songs are a very important part of our musical heritage. It would be shamefull to brush them under the carpet just because they may not be politically correct anymore.
They tell the story of a very important part of our history.
Sing em loud. It should'nt mean that your a provo, just a historian.

Pink Fox

Well said - session savage

kevinjgraham

CSC wrote: »

I am interested in hearing what people on this board think of rebel songs e.g. Boys of the Old Brigade, Foggy Dew. Do you people see them as part of the traditional genre or just dirges in support of the IRA?
I find it interesting that bands like The Dubliners are recognised as folk heroes (and rightly so), while bands like The Wolfe Tones get little or no publicity or recognition.
Looking forward in hearing what you all think

We still play a few most nights we're out and people always join in and seem to enjoy them. They are not about what happened in the last 40 years, but about a brave struggle for independence, and of course, some great songs.

Tim Toolman

Yeah I think rebel songs definitely have a place. I'm from carlow and love to sing Follow me up to Carlow, Kevin Barry, Boulavogue and Kelly The Boy From Killane. It gives you a sense of place, they are powerful songs in that they were wrote about extraordinary people fighting against all odds for their very survival and freedom. Its great to rejoice in them and celebrate their bravery.

squonk

I think these songs are of their time and it will then take time for some of the stuff to become acceptable. I've always thought that songs like Arthur McBride were rebel songs of their time (2 Irish lads getting one up on an English sargeant trying to enlist them) which is now sung the length and breadth of the country with n'er the batting of an eyelid. Kevin Barry is reasonably acceptable but has just that hint of controversy it's a Civil War ballad. I think a lot of us grew up with the IRA and the attrocities in Northern Ireland a daily feature on our TV screens so I think many are, rightly, delighted to have that whole period behind them and are looking towards the future. In that case, it's a bit soon to be dragging up the past and looking backwards. 30, 50 or 100 years time I'm sure some of these songs will be the new Arthur McBrides of their time. While the songs shouldn't be forgotten (and they won't with recordings available now), the appetite isn't there I'd imagine for IRA period rebel songs at this stage.

doolox

Some rebel songs which tell the truth about the results of violent action are OK, like the Patriot Game and such like.

I have little or no time for ones which glorify the actions of the combatants without mentioning the very real downsides:- death. suffering, and long prison sentences for the combatants and a crap life for their families.

The ballad of Joe McCann and the one which has the chorus "you dare to call me a terrorist" featuring some IRA member dying on hunger strike are very true to the sheer awfulness of war and the deadly consequences.

Others, perhaps from an earlier, more innocent age when the true horrors of war could be hidden from the potential recruits by both the governments and the paramilitaries alike, have a one sidedness and selectiveness more akin to an advertising jingle than a serious piece of art.

Time softens many perspectives and I have no problem singing the likes of the merry ploughboy etc , dating from the 1916 to 1920's era but would avoid songs from the troubles era as too recent and likely to cause trouble or offence.

BuilderPlumber

I have to say I enjoy rebel songs by and large and that they are probably most relevant at the moment in any time since the 1920s. I will explain why later on. But first let us define what an Irish rebel song is and what types of song there are.

Firstly, an Irish rebel song broadly is about highlighting injustices and celebrating a fight against them. Traditionally, this was either against the British or so-called freestaters.

Songs vary in style and their tempos. Some name the patriot dead like Kevin Barry, Sean South of/from Garryowen, Kelly the boy from Killane, James Connolly (actually, two songs about him), Sean Treacy, Michael Collins, Roddy McCorley, etc. Others are about specific times like 1798 (Rising of the moon, For tonight we're gonna free old Wexford town, Boolavogue), 1916 (Foggy dew), 1916-21 (Rifles of the IRA) and the civil war (Galtee Mountain boy). More are about reminiscing from a later era back to the old days (The broad black brimmer of the IRA, The boys of the old brigade, Come out you black and tans).

Then, there is the new crop of IRA songs dealing with the 1969-1998 years. In songs like Long Kesh, The men behind the wire, The ballad of Joe McDonnell, 90 miles from Dublin town, and In Belfast, clearly the emphasis is on internment, hunger strikes and war in modern Northern Ireland.

Singers associated with rebel songs include the Dominic Behan, Wolfe Tones, The Clancy Brothers, The Dubliners, Luke Kelly, and Christy Moore. Some stayed with singing them and others distanced themselves.

But times move on. Yes, the British are no longer our enemy. Yes, Northern Ireland's conflict has been resolved. BUT there still remains a cause to rebel for. We have seen corrupt bankers and uncaring/lying politicians cutting back our jobs and our entitlements, we have seen a rise of a two tier society where often talentless people are paid obscene salaries. We see employers treat their employees like dirt and we see a culture where uncertainty and risk taking have become cherished and where stable employment, fair prices and value for money are a thing of the past. But as the words of a famous rebel song states: 'but when men claim Ireland's freedom, the one who'll choose to lead them will wear the broad black brimmer of the IRA'.

So, yes, rebel songs are still very relevant in our still elitist society (Irish independence taught us a lesson that corruption was as Irish as it was British and that our corrupt overlords are still screwing us). They also are part of our history and music tradition. They also fit into the general protest movement and you can hear similar songs from Poland, Czech Republic, Kosovo and Iran about rebelling against 'corrupt, self serving tyrants' such as Hitler, Stalin, Ahmadinejad and Milosevic to name but a few. You will also hear other songs (from the Arab world mainly) glorify Saddam Hussein as a martyr akin to our eulogising songs about the leaders of 1916. Who is right or wrong? It all depends on our perspective.

Of course, Ireland needs another revolution but personally I don't think a violent one would solve anything. We need a one akin to 1989 Czech Republic (Czechoslovakia) or 1994 South Africa where state policies are reformed and power is past from one set to another peacefully. An end to austerity, cutbacks, defending the elite, allowing big shots to launder money conned from our banks, etc. is the revolution Ireland needs. We have gone beyond violence on this island in general I hope but we need to remember we still have to fight for right and there is a LOT wrong on this island especially in politics and banking. We also can sit back and enjoy our folk heroes and their rebel songs as part of our culture. Just like all the other countries do!

trad

"The winners write the History - the losers write the songs" - Frank Harte

eyescreamcone

trad wrote: »

"The winners write the History - the losers write the songs" - Frank Harte

The losers didn't write the songs about Kilmichael.