Modifying a Prius to do a daily commute without gasoline

probe

Time magazine looks at aftermarket kits to modify a Toyota Prius to achieve 30 to 50 km of driving in an all electric mode by increasing the battery capacity.

http://www.time.com/time/business/article/0,8599,1838193,00.html

.probe

Capt'n Midnight

Although the Prius is already a hybrid gas-electric model, the additional battery that Cox had installed enables him to travel more than 20 miles on all-electric power (compared to just two miles without it) before the gas engine kicks in.
...
Cox paid $9,999 for a 207-lb. Hymotion lithium-ion battery module, which fits into the spare tire well behind the back seat of his Prius

Wow - battery technology needs to come on a long way !

considering the amount of money involved you'd think there would be more investment in more affordable battery technology

probe

Capt'n Midnight wrote: »

Wow - battery technology needs to come on a long way !

considering the amount of money involved you'd think there would be more investment in more affordable battery technology

$10k is €7k in real money. €350 per annum assuming a financing cost at 5%. This would pay for 270 litres of gasoline which would be good for 3,800 km in a car that does 7 l/100 km. OK there would be a few kW of electricity to pay for on top of that. But it is by no means OTT in terms of economics. Volume will push the price of batteries down.

Anyway batteries are turning into a rental market - looking at the roll out in Israel and Denmark. You pull into a service station and get your battery swapped in under 60 seconds for another one that has been charged up (from electricity when it is cheap). Like a drive-thru car wash. You get credit for the remaining charge in the battery you leave behind, assuming you "tank up" before you have run out completely.

.probe

derry

probe wrote: »

$10k is €7k in real money. €350 per annum assuming a financing cost at 5%. This would pay for 270 litres of gasoline which would be good for 3,800 km in a car that does 7 l/100 km. OK there would be a few kW of electricity to pay for on top of that. But it is by no means OTT in terms of economics. Volume will push the price of batteries down.

Anyway batteries are turning into a rental market - looking at the roll out in Israel and Denmark. You pull into a service station and get your battery swapped in under 60 seconds for another one that has been charged up (from electricity when it is cheap). Like a drive-thru car wash. You get credit for the remaining charge in the battery you leave behind, assuming you "tank up" before you have run out completely.

.probe

$10,000 is in the USA not Ireland

He figured ten years to get the money back in the USA at $10,000

That makes more like $20,000 or E15000 euro to to get it to Ireland with VAT etc

Even at todays ~1.35 a liter or E6 euros a UK gallon ~E5 USA gallon its looks to 15 to 20 years to ge the money back

Not too many people keep a car more than 4 years

The electricity to do the work is roughly 1/5 the price of gasoline

However the batterry replacement costs at limited life sapns changes things The life of most modern lipo which are 1000 cycles best case more like 500 cycles means that replacing batteries costs will occour every three years

Replacement costs factored in often means the amount of money is similar to petrol fueled cars

If you go onto pruis site you will see the Hybrid is only used as sort of tempory storage solution and pushes you in electric at low speeds
At higher speeds you change to petrol
Therefore a very small battery will do the job as it is used intermently

As othe types of cells like A123 come along with 2000 cycle life fast charging in five minues with price reductions from the orbital price they chage now we will see more ready to go plug in Hybrid electriv Vehiciles PHEV as opposed to HV pruis which exist today

But it wont be this year or next as spending an extra premuim price of E15000 euro up front for 5 years fuel in advance is not going win too many new customers

Here are some facts to explain the case a bit better extracted fromfrom my green issues thread

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=57207943#post57207943

Internal combustion engine 30% efficiency at the shaft
Drive shaft losses drag etc highway best case 15% global
traffic expect more like 7% efficiency global

30% lost efficiency delivering fuel to car on the fore court pumps

so 60% of 7% ~5% global efficiency

Hybrids can double that back to 10%

PHEV can double that again to 20%

all ball park

Gas powered 7 stage electric power in Holland 1990 acheived 87% efficiency peak

three times a internal combustion engine
Peak loads over a 24 hour day makes more like ~60% global power
( eg lots of power wasted at night )

Transmission loses ~10%

So ~50% efficiency at the wall socket in the house in Holland

In Ireland more like ~40%

Power loses to store power in batteries for PHEV ~50% losses

So ~20% power gets to batterys in PHEV in Ireland

Car electric motor ~80% effient

so global power return ~15%

However PHEV probably charges of the wall at night and uses power that is being wasted anyway
So more like ~25% global efficiency when everything is factored in

5% for liquid fuels versus 25% for PHEV is not bad from oil, coal, Natural gas mix of stations .


In the real world most cars will really be closer to ~3% global efficiency (97% wasted)

Most hybrids will be closer to ~8% global efficiency (93% wasted)

Most PHEV will be closer to ~15% global efficiency (85% wasted)

Derry