Garda Policy on Religious Garments

Bren1609

This was in todays Irish times:
http://www.irishtimes.com/focus/2008/gardareligious/index.pdf

No doubt the civil liberty groups and the Sikh community will object.

Arkana

Sure they will - and they have any right to do so. But you have to see the other side as well: Each profession has a certain safety standard - and the safety (life and health) of a person outmatches Religious standards. If you cannot see this with the Gardai, here probably a more stringent example: The Fire Brigade. All active fire officers have to wear - for their own safety - a special designed helmet. Neither on top of this nor underneath a Turban would fit - so, wearing a Turban is unsuitable for anyone in active service.
A totally different thing it is in any kind of representative position - here it is debatable.

Trojan911

Bren1609 wrote: »

No doubt the Sikh community will object.

And so they should. I support change & if that means, for instance, a member of the Sikh community patrolling the street with a Turban, then so be it.

metman

Are we caught in a timewarp or what? This was old news this time last year:

Cast your mind back to last year here.

Trojan911

metman wrote: »

Are we caught in a timewarp or what?

Yep, it's called Irish mentality.....

Bren1609

Trojan911 wrote: »

And so they should. I support change & if that means, for instance, a member of the Sikh community patrolling the street with a Turban, then so be it.

Do you support change just for the sake of change?

Trojan911

Bren1609 wrote: »

Do you support change just for the sake of change?

No.

eroo

See the amount of videos and comments popping up about this issue on youtube.

Gardai wear uniforms for uniformity.Why should indivduality be brought into a uniform?

Bren1609

eroo wrote: »

See the amount of videos and comments popping up about this issue on youtube.

Gardai wear uniforms for uniformity.Why should indivduality be brought into a uniform?

Can you post a link for that?

eroo

Bren1609 wrote: »

Can you post a link for that?

http://ie.youtube.com/watch?v=-8hoB-NpI8k

TheNog

There was a report from a Sikh last year (cannot find it) that the Turban is not an essential requirement but rather a choice of a person of that faith. I was of the opinion that they should be allowed to wear the turban but now I think the opposite. AGS was founded on the prinicple of impartiality from religious and political influences and this is the way forward. There is also the safety concern with the wearing of the turban too. Also Sikhs can carry a ceremonial dagger under their clothing which again raises safety issues.

Me for one am not a religious bloke but I fully accept people have their views and religous beliefs but in this case the AGS was correct. If we were to do this for the Sikhs then what about Muslim women and the veils?? How could a female with a veil properly ID herself to a member of the public or to another member whether they be in uniform or plain clothes. Where would the AGS draw the line?

Tipsy Mac

The problem is if you allow one persons religious outfit you have to allow them all, otherwise you are disciminating against certain religions. By not allowing any religious outfits it's giving full equal status to all, that's my opinion anyway.

Fyr.Fytr

Its a no win situation, allow none everyone gives out, allow one other give out, allow all and as the nog said youve health and safety issues.

I know in the uk sikh officers wear black turbans with checker board bands and force caps badges, sikh customs officers wear navy ones with the badge on it too, im un decided on it

Eru

OK lets get this finished here and now.

Gardai wear a uniform, the point of a uniform is to identify the persons wearing them as part of a group. The word uniformality means to be similar or the same and it extends to units having to decide when going on duty to wear or not wear jackets. My unit for example have to walk out the door in the exact same uniform.

When you become a Garda you cease to have any religious beliefs, sexual orientation, nationality, skin colour or political beliefs.

Christians are and always have been banned from displaying crosses etc and if you allow a turbin then what about jews et al? Your opening flood gates.

Second point, why should the rules be changed to accomodate one person? Surely that person should change to accomodate the career HE CHOICE. AGS didnt headhunt him, he applied to join. He came to them.

Third, Gardai get additional pay on Sundays as its a holy day in Ireland. Should a different religion or atheist be entitled to this payment? Should a muslim get a months worth of Sunday pay during ramadam and nothing the rest of the year? Can I grow my beard and hair back because I miss them and only shaved and got my hair cut in order to become a Garda. Again its a sacrafice on your part in order to join the group

Gardai get 45 minutes per working day break. Will we take prayer time out of this or would that be another 'change' made for the individual?

What about working with women? The list goes on and on and on and leads to reverse discrimination

The organisation is larger and more important than the individual. We all not only accept this but agree to leave our beliefs and orientations at the door.

The public when they deal with Gardai are dealing a 'A Garda' plain and simple. They dont know your sexuality, religion or political opinion nor do they want to. We dont have religious police and its not that long ago since religion did play a part in Irish society. I personally believe it has no place in politics or policing

This move by AGS was agreed and approved by civil rights and integration groups and has been recognised as a good move in ensuring discrimination and racism does not take place at any stage.

Lastly, The damn thing isnt even a religious requirement and not only do they not have to wear them but there are alternatives that can be worn underneath uniform or work hats. How do you think sihks work as builders? Reinforced turbans?

eroo

Your best post to date karlitos!!

TheNog

Karlitosway1978 wrote: »

OK lets get this finished here and now.

*sits back and prepares to learn from the master*

Karlitosway1978 wrote: »

uniformality

*chuckles at karl's attempt to spell uniformity* :D

Karlitosway1978 wrote: »

Al

Who's Al?

Karlitosway1978 wrote: »

Your opening flood gates.

*agrees with Karl, there is enough floods in Ireland with the bad weather an all*

Karlitosway1978 wrote: »

Reinforced turbans?

*and he finishes with a cracker!!!!!!!!!!*

Fyr.Fytr

TheNog wrote: »

*sits back and prepares to learn from the master*
Who's Al?

*Sticks up hand*, ehhh my name is Al

Eru

TheNog wrote: »

*sits back and prepares to learn from the master*

Remember that and you wont go wrong

TheNog wrote: »

*chuckles at karl's attempt to spell uniformity* :D

I will give you that one smart arse

TheNog wrote: »

Who's Al?

“Et al.’ is a scholarly abbreviation of the Latin phrase et alia, which means “and others.” Not so smart now!

Arkana

And, as tested by the German Eastern Frysians: a Turban is much safer than a helmet! How? Well, this is the Eastern Frysian Safety test:
Take a very high tower - at least 100 meters high.
Drop a helmet from that tower - it will surely break.
Do the same with a turban (or a curled shower towel, if you wish) - it might get dirty, but is otherwise undamaged.
See??

Bren1609

This thread has descended into gibberish tit for tat jokes. Can we close it please?

Eru

Bren1609 wrote: »

This thread has descended into gibberish tit for tat jokes. Can we close it please?

In fairness I fail to see how you posting in it, thus moving it back up the page, helps matters. Surely you could just as easily left it as it was?

deadwood

Karlitosway1978 wrote: »

OK lets get this finished here and now.

That went well.:D