New Hurling Proposals

Evil_Clown

New Hurling Championship Proposal

From RTE:

"Proposed changes to the Leinster Hurling championship for 2009.

The championship will comprise of seven teams - Kilkenny, Wexford, Offaly, Laois, Dublin, Galway & Antrim

The proposal will be that the Leinster champions (Kilkenny)automatically get into the semi-final.

The other six teams will go into the first round proper. There will be a draw made for them in October this year after Congress and there will be three winners.

Those three winners will go into the hat with Kilkenny to pair off the semi-finalists. It is propsed that the draw for the semi-final will not take place until after the first round is completed in May 2009.

Beyond Leinster

The three losers in Leinster will meet up with the loser coming from the first round in Munster. That will be called pool one. They will play off down to two teams.

The other pool will be the two beaten semi-finalists in Munster, and the two beaten semi-finalists in Leinster. They will play down to two teams and then there will be crossover games between both pools.

They will be quarter-finals involving the beaten provincial finalists, with the winners of those playing the Leinster and Munster champions respectively in the semi-final."

Ulster Championship

The Ulster Championship will remain in place for the 2009 season. Along with their involvement in Leinster, Antrim are also expected to partake in their own provincial series.

The plans outlined above, if ratified by Congress are expcted to be in place for five years. "



For the stage with 2 Pools should this not be an open draw. Letting the 1st round loser in Munster get the 3 opening round losers from Leinster in 1 pool seems a little unfair to the teams in the other pool. It looks to me like you are given a harder pool if you progress further in your province which couln't be fair.

yahoo_moe

Evil_Clown wrote: »

It looks to me like you are given a harder pool if you progress further in your province which couln't be fair.

My thoughts exactly - doesn't seem well thought out really...

Daysha

Am I the only that can't make any sense of that what so ever, especially that Beyond Leinster section?

I mean, if there are 2 pools of 4 teams each, and there will be cross-over games, how is it decided who plays who? Because I highly doubt each team will have 6 qualifiers if everyone plays everyone.

Also, how can two teams from each pool qualify? That would mean 4 qualifiers and 2 provencial finalists in the quarters, meaning 3 quarter final matches!

I know, I'll check gaa.ie. They should have a much more easy version to understand....:rolleyes:

Edit: Just check hoganstand. I think what RTE meant to say is that the pools will be played seperately as usual, and then the pools will cross over. 1st in Pool 1 will play 2nd in Pool 2 and vice versa, with the two winners playing the provencial finalists in the quarters

Daysha

If thats the way of looking at it, it's the wrong way of doing things, simply because of the number of qualifiers played.

Lets take a random team from Munster. This team wins a 1st round match and loses the semis. They then play three pool games, a "cross-over" game, a quarter final, a semi final and a final. NINE MATCHES!

There's no point for a cross-over qualifier. Simply make only the top team from each pool qualify to face the provencial finalists in the quarters. If they do that, the intensity of these qualifiers will greatly increase, because barring a mathematical miracle one defeat in your pool games would be the end of the road.

As far as I was aware, the system used before this years one was scrapped because of the number of meaningless qualifiers in the two groups.

What changed?

brettmirl

I think they just like having meetings!

Every year they change or tweak the format and it never works. There is always someone unhappy.

Why not just bite the bullet and do an open draw?

While we are talking about formats, does anyone think the league needs to be spiced up a bit too?
Why not try some of the traditionally weaker hurling counties there too as opposed to the "ah sure its only the league" attitude?

premierstone

mick_irl wrote: »

I think they just like having meetings!

Every year they change or tweak the format and it never works. There is always someone unhappy.

Why not just bite the bullet and do an open draw?

While we are talking about formats, does anyone think the league needs to be spiced up a bit too?
Why not try some of the traditionally weaker hurling counties there too as opposed to the "ah sure its only the league" attitude?

The open draw will never happen plain and simple the munster championship is sacrasant

As for the league not really sure what your getting at here tbh, weaker counties are in the league and can play in Division 1 if they get promoted

hawkwing

Let's go back to straight knockout pre 1997, when you went to every game as it could be your last and they all mattered.It has changed slightly EVERY year since for 11 years so is it working??

brettmirl

premierstone wrote: »

The open draw will never happen plain and simple the munster championship is sacrasant

As for the league not really sure what your getting at here tbh, weaker counties are in the league and can play in Division 1 if they get promoted

What I am getting at with the league is making it more attractive to teams and the public in general.

Promote it better and try and get it up to some better level of interest than it is at the moment.

The_Kew_Tour

20 years later and Galway and Antrim are finally in Leinster.

Hopefully Kilkenny can least get one decent game in championship before they reach a semi for last decade they have got away with that of course big thanks to Nicky "lets give cats three in a row" brennan

Imposter

This is also **** for teams who are trying to make a breakthrough. Are Antrim any (or much) better than Westmeath or any other strong Christy Ring team? Will that still be the case in 5 years given that Antrim will have much more top class games?

Daysha

hawkwing wrote: »

Let's go back to straight knockout pre 1997, when you went to every game as it could be your last and they all mattered.It has changed slightly EVERY year since for 11 years so is it working??

Oh yeah thats a fantastic idea, lets go back to the time where Galway and Antrim were given a bye into the semi finals every year, while some Munster teams had 3 extremely competitive games before reaching the same stage.

4 fantastic Munster teams will be out of the Championship by June, some of which will only 70 minutes of real hurling for an entire year.

Antrim will get 70 minutes too, and that will involve them being crushed by a provencial champion in a deserted Croke Park.

Kilkenny will continue to walk Leinster, and then have a 50:50 chance every year of meeting ANTRIM in the AI Semi Finals.

Seriously, who wouldn't want a Championship like that? :rolleyes:

Danno

Jaysus lads, why scrap the provincial champos? I have said it may times on here that these competitions should be ran as a seperate entity to the All Ireland.

June Bank Holiday weekend should be the final days.

Start the All Ireland series as an open draw/champions league style from the last week of June with "PERHAPS" a bonus point for the provincial champions in the All Ireland series.

EXAMPLE FOR 2009:

MAY 3RD:
LEINSTER SHC - Laois 1-16 V 1-14 Westmeath
MUNSTER SHC - Cork 1-15 V 2-11 Limerick
ULSTER SHC - Armagh 2-13 V 1-11 Donegal

MAY 10TH:
LEINSTER SHC - Dublin 2-18 V 3-14 Offaly
MUNSTER SHC - Clare 1-17 V 1-19 Tipperary
ULSTER SHC - Derry 1-15 V 2-18 Down
CONNAGHT SHC - Mayo 1-12 V 1-16 Roscommon

MAY 17TH:
LEINSTER SHC - Laois 1-15 V 1-14 Wexford
MUNSTER SHC - Waterford 2-19 V 3-15 Cork
ULSTER SHC - Armagh 1-11 V 2-13 Antrim

MAY 24TH:
LEINSTER SHC - Dublin 2-13 V 0-20 Kilkenny

MAY 31ST BANK HOLIDAY SUNDAY FINALS AT THURLES:
CONNAGHT SHC FINAL: Galway 2-17 V 1-13 Roscommon OR Rest of Connaught Side.
MUNSTER SHC FINAL: Tipperary 2-19 V 3-19 Waterford

JUNE 1ST BANK HOLIDAY MONDAY FINALS AT TULLAMORE:
ULSTER SHC FINAL: Antrim 0-18 V 1-13 Down
LEINSTER SHC FINAL: Killenny 0-21 V 2-12 Laois


ALL IRELAND OPEN DRAW 2009:

GROUP 1
Galway
Cork
Tipperary
Offaly

GROUP 2
Waterford
Kilkenny
Wexford
Dublin

GROUP 3
Antrim
Laois
Clare
Limerick

Top team in each group qualifies for All Ireland Semi Final. A play off between the best two second placed teams to determine last semi-final place.
No more than two provincial champions allowed in a group IF bonus point is given to provincial champions.
Each team plays each team once with the home/away agreements in place continuing.

What would your thoughts be on this lads???

hawkwing

deise59 wrote: »

Oh yeah thats a fantastic idea, lets go back to the time where Galway and Antrim were given a bye into the semi finals every year, while some Munster teams had 3 extremely competitive games before reaching the same stage.

4 fantastic Munster teams will be out of the Championship by June, some of which will only 70 minutes of real hurling for an entire year.

Antrim will get 70 minutes too, and that will involve them being crushed by a provencial champion in a deserted Croke Park.

Kilkenny will continue to walk Leinster, and then have a 50:50 chance every year of meeting ANTRIM in the AI Semi Finals.

Seriously, who wouldn't want a Championship like that? :rolleyes:

Yeah and maybe Waterford would have got to 3 All-irelands before this year when they deserved to moreso as Munster Champions not like this year.There is hardly the makings of on "fantastic" team in munster this year looking at the displays against Dublin,Galway,Offaly and Wexford. I don't remember Kilkenny walking Leinster every year before 1997 (backdoor) do you?Also the Munster Champions have a 50:50 chance of an easier semi final every second year also as reward for coming through and maybe a Waterford/Clare game might bring a decent crowd with the 9 point losers not leaving us wondering if they were even trying or not.Was the championship that awful before 1997(not the one i was watching and the league was far more meaningful also.)

Daysha

hawkwing wrote: »

I don't remember Kilkenny walking Leinster every year before 1997 (backdoor) do you?

You're right, but last time I checked, this was 2008, and Kilkenny are walking Leinster. Simple as.

hawkwing wrote: »

Was the championship that awful before 1997

You're right, the Championship was not that bad prior to '97. But like I said before, times change. Teams are stronger, quicker and more skillful. We have counties back in training before Christmas, dedicating more and more to ensure they are there or thereabouts come September, so the least they deserve is a fair, honest Championship where each team is on equal billing.

Do you honestly think the Munster teams had equal billing to Antrim or Galway all those years? Of course not!

Can you imagine a Champions League or Premiership with such inequalitys?! Can you imagine the uproar if the Galway's or Antrim's of English football were given a straight bye in the semi finals of the FA Cup, while the rest had to slog their way through the rounds?

hawkwing wrote: »

Also the Munster Champions have a 50:50 chance of an easier semi final every second year also as reward for coming through and maybe a Waterford/Clare game might bring a decent crowd with the 9 point losers not leaving us wondering if they were even trying or not.

To accuse a team of not trying to win a match is pretty insulting tbh. We were reigning Munster Champions attempting to be the first Waterford team to retain Munster in decades. Things weren't right in the camp before the match, we all knew that. It was simply a case of a very bad day at the office.

I'll leave it at that. If you really want to make suggestions like that, start a new topic.

Daysha

Very good suggestions there Danno, I'd be in favour of at least trying to see what a provencial championship would be like with no bearing on the AI outcomes. And like I said, the most favourable thing about an Champions League style All Ireland series is giving each team equal stance, and that should be the no.1 priority for the HDC at the moment.

I posted my own preferred choice of Championship structure there a few months ago. I'll see if I can dig it up.

Edit: Here we are:

Two groups, Munster (Clare, Tipp, Cork, Limerick, Waterford) and Leinster/Rest of Ireland (5 of Kilkenny, Galway, Wexford, Antrim, Offaly, Laois, Dublin). Everyone plays everyone in their group once, with each team getting 2 home/2 away. The top two in each group play each other again in the Munster and Leinster finals.

Then the All-Irelands. 3rd Munster vs. 4th Leinster and 4th Munster vs. 3rd Leinster. The two winners then play the provincial runners up in the AI Quarter Finals, with the two winners facing the provincial winners. All matches in neutral venues.

Then, 5th Munster vs. 5th Leinster with the loser relegated to Christy Ring.

Pros
Every team is guaranteed at least 5 competitive matches
It vastly reduces the amount of meaningless qualifiers. Every match really means something
It keeps the Munster and Leinster finals in place
The home away system in provincial matches gets rid of the provincial councils holding matches in crazy locations
It inspires counties with mediocre home grounds like Clare or Waterford to push ahead with redevelopments, as they are always guaranteed to hold Championship matches every year.

Cons
It still isn't exactly balanced. Group A will always be stronger than Group B.
We will be left with a strong Munster team having to face a relegation match
Increase in matches won't please the clubs.
We lose a knockout Munster Championship
A team could lose 3 matches in the groups and go on to win the All Ireland

Reading back on that now, that's probably the best way of going about things if it's decided that Munster/Leinster must continue to influence the shaping of the All Ireland series. However, as long as that happens, I doubt we will ever have a completely fair hurling championship.

hawkwing

"You're right, but last time I checked, this was 2008, and Kilkenny are walking Leinster. "--You said Kilkenny will continue to walk Leinster--i said they are doing it since the knockout went???
"You're right, the Championship was not that bad prior to '97. " Why was it changed then and EVERY year since. Was there a debate every year before '97 about how we can change it --NO.

"Do you honestly think the Munster teams had equal billing to Antrim or Galway all those years? Of course not!" --No but they were always good enough to beat antrim and generally galway so what difference.

"Can you imagine a Champions League or Premiership with such inequalitys?! "
This is a championship not a league,can you imagine an FA CUP with Barnsley beating Chelsea in the first round 3-0 but Chelsea are still in and come back to win it--Waterford get trounced just like Limerick in last year's munster final etc etc and the losers go farther. A cup is a cup and a league is a league. Are the group stages of the champions league more entertaining that the knockout--NO, when did the underdog have a better chance--when it was the european cup.

"Can you imagine the uproar if the Galway's or Antrim's of English football were given a straight bye in the semi finals of the FA Cup, while the rest had to slog their way through the rounds?"
In the world cup 5 African teams get through based on region but usually don't go very far like the Asians, surely putting them in a much tougher European group will do nothing for the game in those countries, they are the best in their area so they benefit accordingly."uproar in africa asia??"

"To accuse a team of not trying to win a match is pretty insulting tbh."--Everyone wondered were they after the game,Sunday game etc etc. Surely there should at least be a 6pt rule that you are gone if you are hammered,it will end up one day with the Wexford situation where you lose by 23pts and still go further that the victors,people are already turning away from matches cos of second chances.

"We were reigning Munster Champions attempting to be the first Waterford team to retain Munster in decades."--and fully deserved to be in the all-ireland final just like 2002 etc but good old backdoor stopped it.

Daysha

Why was it changed then and EVERY year since. Was there a debate every year before '97 about how we can change it --NO.

First of all, if you're going to try make a compelling argument, get your facts right, because the hurling structure has NOT been changed every year since '97, not even close. We had the quarter finals for the provencial finalists from 98-2001, the qualifiers for all between 2002-2004, the group stages between 2005-2007 and now the current system for 2008. 4 in 10 years does not equal 10 in 10 years.

Secondly, it was changed for the very reasons I've been stating this entire topic! It was unfair, it denied the public of more top-quality hurling, it favoured certain teams over others, and one point I failed to mention was the GAA knew that an increase in gate receipts would lead to more money being pumped into the grass roots of the sport.

Thats why it was changed, and thats why we can't go back. How many more times do I have to say it?

they were always good enough to beat antrim and generally galway so what difference.

So in your opinion it's ok to give teams bye's into the later rounds of major competitions because they're no good?!? Come off it.

Are the group stages of the champions league more entertaining that the knockout--NO, when did the underdog have a better chance--when it was the european cup.

Hold on a second, surely a back door system IMPROVES the underdogs chances in the Championship! Limerick, a team regarded as one of the weakest in the "big 9" just two years ago, hugely benefited from the back door system when they qualified for an All Ireland final.

Similarly last year, when Wexford were wooped by Kilkenny in the Leinster final, they used the qualifiers to gain a bit of confidence, improve their play, and went on to pull off a huge win against Tipp in the quarters before giving a much better account of themselves against Kilkenny in the semis.

So i'm sorry, but I'm not buying into this idea that qualifiers only helps the bigger counties. It can work both ways you know!

Everyone wondered were they after the game,Sunday game etc etc. Surely there should at least be a 6pt rule that you are gone if you are hammered,it will end up one day with the Wexford situation where you lose by 23pts and still go further that the victors,people are already turning away from matches cos of second chances.

Excuse me!?! I thought the very reason you wanted a return to a straight knockout system was because it would benefit the underdogs. So how in the name of god do you think this 6 point rule would benefit the underdogs?!

Kilkenny will for the immediate future at least have a much better chance of beating Wexford by 6 points than vice versa.

A win is a win, regardless of the scoreline. To suggest that a Kilkenny 6 point victory would completely knockout Wexford while a 1 point win for Wexford would still keep Kilkenny in it is completely rediculous tbh

hawkwing

It was unfair,(you lose and you are out--VERY UNFAIR--you lose now by 23 points and go further than the team that beat you--FAIR?
it denied the public of more top-quality hurling,(the crap group games that nobody has watched and are won by 15-20 points every year and the lessening of interest in the provincial ones that are there,) it favoured certain teams over others,(Galway are penalised cos of connacht hurling being poor,Ulster Championship also devalued) and one point I failed to mention was the GAA knew that an increase in gate receipts (treble the no of games but 60-70% of previous attendances at them,close the hill so you have to pay more) would lead to more money being pumped into the grass roots of the sport.(pay off Croke Park and tie up intercounty club games even in the weaker counties until late July)

"Thats why it was changed, and thats why we can't go back. How many more times do I have to say it?"---There was nothing wrong before 1997,games were top class,Antrim,derry,down and galway were all seeing croker ,we had come off cork,tipp,cats,cats,offaly,clare,wexford,clare winners with great attendances and nobody was unhappy(limerick were still in finals with silverware even when they lost)--now no-one seems happy with it anymore and if they are why is this magic formula being sought after every september to improve it when it was not before.


"So in your opinion it's ok to give teams bye's into the later rounds of major competitions because they're no good?!? Come off it."
Antrim never had a bye,when they won Ulster they deserved to be there for that,Galway not their fault.

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
So i'm sorry, but I'm not buying into this idea that qualifiers only helps the bigger counties. It can work both ways you know!
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
It has helped Offaly in 1998 and Cork in 2004, 2 rewarding results in 11 years pending Sunday.Every other backdoor win has not given anyone a trophy just led them on for longer when in hindsight most would have preferred the earlier exit.Cannot see much advantage to any other team any year.
Players don't mind not being involved all summer every year,there is the small matter of club hurling also which they like to participate in.

Helped Limerick???hurled all year in 2007 and won nothing,2008 was bad enough to lose to Clare but put them right back by losing to Offaly.


Helped Clare???--nearly caught undeservedly by Tipp in 1997,no final in 1998 cos of it,lots of hurling for them every year since but no trophy.

Helped Waterford???---maybe after Sunday once but definitely did damn all but stopped them from getting to 3 All-Irelands before this.

Helped Tipp???--Got to lose to Clare twice in 1997 when everyone would prefer to be gone after Munster,2002 got to lose to Kilkenny for first time in 30+ yrs,2003 mauled by cats,2004-2007 absolutely nothing gained but another beating but got to play 6 weeks in a row in 07,2008 denied a deserved final

Helped Wexford???reigning All Ireland and leinster champs in 1997 semi and denied dream crowd pleasing final against Clare, again 2004 denied Wexford/Waterford final--benefitted from beating Tipp last year??to go on and lose to cats easily again-none

Helped Offaly---YES in 1998 one of 2 times it has helped a county,other than that they seem to have given up on Leinster ever since as catching the cats asleep has no great reward anymore.

Helped Cats----Has made Leinster easier due to the others knowing beating them won't knock them out so probably yes.
Helped Cork----YES in 2004, otherwise not really--but they got to lose 3 times last year which they enjoyed cos it's top class matches?

Helped Ulster Hurling --Antrim NO,Derry,Down--not even allowed to take part
Laois,Westmeath,Dublin---We have the league to make progress but one beating is enough if we are trounced by someone why give us another?

Galway--no
+++++++++++++++
Did not say this :
"To suggest that a Kilkenny 6 point victory would completely knockout Wexford while a 1 point win for Wexford would still keep Kilkenny in it is completely rediculous tbh"
both should be gone if that rule was in.

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Anyway no point in this anymore so best of luck to Waterfod on Sunday from one of the few neutrals who was in Walsh park in 1993 v.Kerry pre backdoor. Were you there that day or in Thurles at the u-21 final v. Clare the previous year,nothing like the knockout to have a bit of interest,the magic of the cup!!

Daysha

Listen hawkwing, I'm gonna say this for the last time, because you're only making me repeat myself:

I am NOT denying that the Championship worked well prior to 1997. I understand that (nearly) everyone was happy with it. Understand? Good.

So why do I think it still needed changing?

See my two previous posts, I honestly don't have the energy to type it out again.

Antrim never had a bye,when they won Ulster they deserved to be there for that,Galway not their fault.

.....so? You still made the comment that it didn't matter that some Munster teams had to play 3 games to get to the same stage Galway or the Ulster Champions get to, because their reward was a near certain victory over that team. That argument is just completely illogical and flawed.

It has helped Offaly in 1998 and Cork in 2004, 2 rewarding results in 11 years pending Sunday.Every other backdoor win has not given anyone a trophy just led them on for longer when in hindsight most would have preferred the earlier exit.Cannot see much advantage to any other team any year.
Players don't mind not being involved all summer every year,there is the small matter of club hurling also which they like to participate in.

:eek::eek::eek: Where do I even begin?!

1) Whether a team benefited from the qualifiers or not does NOT depend souly on whether they won the All-Ireland or not. Theres much more too it than that

2) Did you honestly just suggest that GAA players would prefer to get knocked out early to avoid being "led on for longer"

Ken McGrath spoke about how the worst feeling he feels as a hurler is the morning after being knocked out of the Championship, and knowing you have nothing to fight for for another year (county wise), nothing to train to, nothing to aspire to, nothing to PLAY for!

He's had his fair share of downs, but all he wants is just to be out there, playing week in week out in front of the biggest crowds, entertaining. Thats not just him, thats the feelings of hundreds of county GAA stars around the country.

Once you fully understand that, then maybe you can understand just how criminal it would be to take away so much of that summer hurling from them

Helped Limerick???hurled all year in 2007 and won nothing,2008 was bad enough to lose to Clare but put them right back by losing to Offaly.

Did Limerick benefit from it in 2007. OF COURSE. They may not have won the All-Ireland, but they reached their first final in 11 years and witnessed what some Limerick supporters said to me as one of their best performances ever against Waterford in the AI Semi Final. They had the qualifiers to thank for being in that position, just like I was two weeks ago when I saw my county qualify for our first AI in 49 years, again because of the qualifiers.

Helped Clare???--nearly caught undeservedly by Tipp in 1997,no final in 1998 cos of it,lots of hurling for them every year since but no trophy.

First of all, they've only one 1 Munster since after 97, so they're surely the team that has benefited from it the most, since they still got to do what they love all year. They reached an AI final in 2002 thanks to the qualifiers.

Helped Waterford???---maybe after Sunday once but definitely did damn all but stopped them from getting to 3 All-Irelands before this.

Theres no guarantee that the original structure would have meant we'd have got an AI Final before Sunday.

The year this generation of players made the breakthrough was 1998. How did they do it? They went through the qualifiers after losing the 1998 Munster final. For that reason alone, my county should be delighted with the new system.

Helped Tipp???--Got to lose to Clare twice in 1997 when everyone would prefer to be gone after Munster,2002 got to lose to Kilkenny for first time in 30+ yrs,2003 mauled by cats,2004-2007 absolutely nothing gained but another beating but got to play 6 weeks in a row in 07,2008 denied a deserved final

Slightly OT, but not many would argue that Waterford were the better team in our semi against them. So unless you disagree, how did they "deserve" to reach an AI final?

Helped Wexford???reigning All Ireland and leinster champs in 1997 semi and denied dream crowd pleasing final against Clare, again 2004 denied Wexford/Waterford final--benefitted from beating Tipp last year??to go on and lose to cats easily again-none

Did Wexford benefit from it in 2007. OF COURSE. Because they finished the Championship in a damn much better position than compared to if they had been knocked out after the Leinster semi final.

Helped Offaly---YES in 1998 one of 2 times it has helped a county,other than that they seem to have given up on Leinster ever since as catching the cats asleep has no great reward anymore.

I don't see how you can say this? KK haven't destroyed Leinster teams because the opposition have given up. It's because they're simply TOO GOOD.

And btw, Offaly won their first "big 9" clash in the qualifiers this year for the first time in god knows how long.

Helped Cats----Has made Leinster easier due to the others knowing beating them won't knock them out so probably yes.

See above

Helped Cork----YES in 2004, otherwise not really--but they got to lose 3 times last year which they enjoyed cos it's top class matches?

When did I say they enjoy losing? I said they enjoy given the opportunity to play top class matches. Playing and losing is better than not having played at all.

Coming from a Waterford fan finally going to see his county play in an AI Final, trust me on that one.

hawkwing

There is no point to this,fair enough if you think an extra game is so important but i don't unless there is some sort of benefit. I think only Offaly '98 and Cork '04 have gained anything and you disagree. Did it bring on Limerick hurling reaching last year's final which i think 90% believe Waterford should have been in,i think not--this year showed they didn't belong in it.more games yes but nothing to suggest it has helped any weaker county.ps, how many Munster Championship knockout matches have you actually been at and did you enjoy the excitement,intensity,crowds more than the ones nowadays when there is 5-10 minutes left to go? no more posts from me here.

Hitman Actual

Imposter wrote: »

This is also **** for teams who are trying to make a breakthrough. Are Antrim any (or much) better than Westmeath or any other strong Christy Ring team? Will that still be the case in 5 years given that Antrim will have much more top class games?

It's a disaster for the (Leinster) Christy Ring clubs, imo. At the very least they should have allowed the Christy Ring winner into the Leinster draw (should that be a Leinster county, obviously). That would give you the 8 teams for a fairer draw this year. Instead, Leinster is being used to improve the fortunes of both Antrim and Galway, while Westmeath and Carlow et al are left in an apathetical mess. Bloody farcical.