Disgusted with Revit

guntermurray

I'm an arch tech, in a small rural 3 person practice and have recently "upgraded" from AutoCAD LT 2009 to Revit 2009. Is anyone else disgusted with Revit or am I missing something? Whilst the design and visualisation aspect is pretty cool, how difficult / time consuming is it to generate Construction Drawings.....Cavity Closers don't work, Roof Detailing is crap, minor amendments to bulding layouts take forever and a day because something has aligned and constrained itself to something else, pre-loaded windows have no cills and to draw a new family is like taking on a project and not getting paid for it. It's a total pain. The "Essentials" training course I did, didn't cover creating / editing families to any extent and we are really struggling to get work out the door with it.

What CAD package are most people using? How did you find Revit if thats what your using? Any info greatly appreciated.

Gunter

sydthebeat

I use autocad 2005, 2006 and occassionally 2007.

The vast majority is 2d work. Occassionally if i need to do a 3d i use sketchup, generally it would be required to show shadows etc.

i completed Part 2 of a 3D cad couse in carlow a few years ago, and honestly, ive never had to implement it in my day to day job.....

smashey

I'm using AutoCad 2007 and all is done in 2D. I did the whole 3D thing a few years back but haven't used it since and now i can't use it anyway.

One Cold Hand

I use AutoCAD, the office I'm now has 2004, but I've used 2005 and 2006. I also use it to make wireframes for 3d models.

I don't know that much about Revit. How does it work? Is it basically a 3d model used to create 2d drawings? (similar to ArchiCAD)

RKQ

Sorry guntermurray, this is abit off topic but might be relevant to those wanting to touch up their 3d or just learn a new skill!

As Mjsmyth states "This may be of limited appeal, but trueSpace 7.6 is now available for free from www.caligari.com

trueSpace is a modeling/animation/rendering package. In early 2008, the company was acquired by Microsoft and trueSpace 7.6 was released for free. It used to sell for roughly $600.

There are tutorials and documents all available for download free also."

Very impressive 3d architectural drawings shown on PDF. Might take a while to digest! Still free is free and it is very well known software, so give it a go.

I use 2d so Autocad 2005 but still like 2000 as its simple low memory etc. Played with Revit and was impressed but have no real experience of it (yet)

topcatcbr

I use ADT 2006 i only use the 2d aspect. same as autocad 2006. I have recently upgraded to 2008 but havnt yet familiarised myself with the new pallet. still using 2006

Poor Uncle Tom

We are using Autocad 2009 with Revit, and are really only getting a chance to try it out now. As with anything new it takes time to get accustomed to it, but I can see huge advantages to it. Creating a walk through from the site gate to the back garden including all cut and fill areas, drawing ground and first floor plans only and the sections and elevations developing themselves at the same time.

But like anything, if you don't work to get the most from it, you will have to settle for less than the best. I am hoping it will work out as good as I expect it too, but I can also see how it wouldn't suit the needs of everyone. In fact if I'm honest we don't NEED it, but I think it will be a usefull tool.

Slig

I'm using Archicad 11 and everything is done in 3d, it takes longer to draw up the floor plans (you have to make sure wall heights and window sizes are correct) but you save time again by not having to worry about elevations or sections and at this stage you also have a 3d modle of the house to show the clients.
I grew up on autocad and found it hard to convert but once I did I havent looked back. 2D is also a lot quicker and easier. The only downside is dimensioning which is clunky but doable. Archicad also opens autocad drawings and can save back to pretty much any format. I used to use ADT and it has nothing on archicad, way too complicated and limited.

smashey

I've dabbled in Archicad but just didn't have the patience to really learn it. Good package with the 3D stuff and sun paths etc.

Slig

smashey wrote: »

I've dabbled in Archicad but just didn't have the patience to really learn it. Good package with the 3D stuff and sun paths etc.

I started exactly the same, I knew everything on autocad and loved learning all the extras. I even got to a stage where I would use autocad to write a letter instead of word:D. However I dabbled in Archicad and put it on my CV that I was learning to use it and I got a job from that. Kinda had to learn the program very quickly after that though.

I hated 2d Archicad drawing at first and drew all my details in Autocad and brought them in. Now there is no comparison, Archicad is way more user friendly and quick. Hatching is way easier, lines are a lot easier to use and grouping objects is similar to creating blocks but way better and easier to use.

topcatcbr

Slig wrote: »

I started exactly the same, I knew everything on autocad and loved learning all the extras. I even got to a stage where I would use autocad to write a letter instead of word:D. However I dabbled in Archicad and put it on my CV that I was learning to use it and I got a job from that. Kinda had to learn the program very quickly after that though.

I hated 2d Archicad drawing at first and drew all my details in Autocad and brought them in. Now there is no comparison, Archicad is way more user friendly and quick. Hatching is way easier, lines are a lot easier to use and grouping objects is similar to creating blocks but way better and easier to use.

Can you recomend any book or site for learning the basics in archicad

Slig

topcatcbr wrote: »

Can you recomend any book or site for learning the basics in archicad

Actually I dont know of any. For autocad there is CBEN.net but archicad?
I reallt just learned from getting my hands dirty, people around me using it and copius amounts of F1:D.

sinnerboy

Have not seen Revit yet

Here we use AutoCAD lite - for 2D construction info and Archicad for p.perms / presentational documents

Working up info imported from Archicad to AutoCAD is painful - but we found that producing details / construction standard layouts in Archicad even more so
Also - we find we need AutoCAD format info for sending to other consultants as well as some suppliers ( windows , Renewables suppliers ) who prefer this to PDF

So 2 questions please colleagues

1. Would you say Revit is "best of both worlds" ?
   
2. Approx € of Revit ?

sinnerboy

Slig wrote: »

I grew up on autocad and found it hard to convert but once I did I havent looked back. 2D is also a lot quicker and easier. The only downside is dimensioning which is clunky but doable. Archicad also opens autocad drawings and can save back to pretty much any format. I used to use ADT and it has nothing on archicad, way too complicated and limited.

Good for you Slig - we gave up here as I posted above . We find Archicad files saved as Autocad are huge and they contain a lot of "wipeout" ghosts . Right pain in the Swiss .

Poor Uncle Tom

If memory serves it was €850 with the Autocad upgrade.

Slig

sinnerboy wrote: »

Good for you Slig - we gave up here as I posted above . We find Archicad files saved as Autocad are huge and they contain a lot of "wipeout" ghosts . Right pain in the Swiss .

That and the lineweights come out as global widths, thats really frustrating. I find archicad great for 2d especially fills etc. a lot easier to edit. The one thing I will say though is that in 3d you are never actually "using" Archicad, your generally trying to trick iot into doing what you want.:D

eoghanharris

i have to disagree as a technician with 5 years autocad experience working in a medium sized firm. Whereas i see what you mean in regards to the complicated lengthy process, i think the genius with revit is the idea behind it. Its advantage is to be gained more in the longterm than the shortterm. once you have created your own custom families, profiles and materials and get used to modelling fast, the advantages are clear. eg. create your own windowsill profile and use it to quickly create sills using extrusion. Fair enough, it might take 5 times longer to create, but you have it in 5 views and you can use this profile in your next project. Obviously, building your model in 3d (similar to how it would be built on site) gives far more insight into potential issues / design improvements which you just don't see in 2d. there are a lot of shortfalls, i admit. 2d drafting is slow, schedules are awkward to get right and 3d modelling isn't always easy, but i reckon these issues will be ironed out with future releases and user experience. Along with the added advantage of top quality visuals to keep the client happy and simplified organization of sheets and non-conflicting information (which is often an issue in our office), i think the idea is genius and so obvious when you think about it, but it hasn't been perfected yet. I'm a convert anyways, i can see the potential, and i reckon i will convert one or two more in my office. Presentation is a big part of our service and mental ray interior visuals ****ing rock without going near 3dmax or any other program.

Mellor

Autocad is a vector drafting program,
Revit is a BIM program,

Approaching revit the same way as autocad will result in failure. You have to learn how to use BIM, as well as the coding to fully utilise the "blocks"

DvB

Mellor wrote: »

Autocad is a vector drafting program,
Revit is a BIM program,

Approaching revit the same way as autocad will result in failure. You have to learn how to use BIM, as well as the coding to fully utilise the "blocks"

As a teccie with 13 years experience i have to agree, i've used every version of Autocad from R11 up to 2006 (& the odd LT version as well) & having seen the demo's of revit have come to the conclusion i'll need to 'rethink' the way i prepare drawings if i ultimately end up using the packages i've seen to date, the feedback i've gotten from a former workmate now using revit backs up my thinking also, not what i was hoping to hear at my age

smashey

DvB wrote: »

i've used every version of Autocad from R11 up

R11?

Pfft n00b.

Try R9.

DvB

smashey wrote: »

R11?

Pfft n00b.

Try R9.

I can only imagine what that must have been like , I remember the massive jump at the time between R11 & R12 (more than 8 colours for layers, woo hoo!!)also used the original aec at the time as well, handy for the oul 3d stairs that one

smashey

All on a compaq 386. :eek:

topcatcbr

smashey wrote: »

R11?

Pfft n00b.

Try R9.

Thats nothing

I used to use a drawing board imagine that

Computing was done on an abacus

justsomebloke

topcatcbr wrote: »

Can you recomend any book or site for learning the basics in archicad

I know this post is a couple of months old but hey I might as well give my 2c

anyyyyway. Have you tried the the full tutorial that comes with archicad 11 (not sure what the one on 12 is like) it brings you through the process of desinging a building and surrounding land. As someone with no cad knowledge (I do IT for a architectural firm but don't actually have to know anything about it) and I found it to be extremely well done and even I was able to follow it and give me a good idea of what I was doing

topcatcbr

Its been a while (years) since i tried archicad, but i found it hard to convert to from Acad. I prefer to learn from a book. I guess im old fashioned like that.

Disco Bandit

anyone know any courses or the like around that can get you up to scratch on revit? or reference books, websites etc..
I was thinking of self learning it, but its fairly daunting and i don't want to jump too quick into bad habits... I've been thinking about learning the basics in a few programs just to see them first hand. used autocad 02-08 in college and work but nothin' else.

Eoghanfranks

well guntermurray i am an architectural technician and i have been using Revit Architecture 9.0, 2008,2009 and 2010 for the past 2 years and have found it not only to be a more advanced package but a quicker package than autocad. the images it produces are so realistic they are far better than images ive seen from sketch up and archicad.
revit i will admit at first is a very time consuming piece of software but once you get into it its so easy to use. i am still learning new things on it but isnt that what lifes all about learning. in autocad you can draw a house in a day or 2 but with revit i can draw a house from start to finish in a matter of hours. ok i admit it that some detailing is a bit trickey but doable. i am self taught on the software. i didnt go to do the course as i was talking to people that went on it and they found it no good but it got them started. revitcity.com is a website i use all the time both getting blocks and also going on the forumns if i have questions that need answering.3D View 7.jpg

hongler

Eoghanfranks wrote: »

the images it produces are so realistic they are far better than images ive seen from sketch up and archicad.

I think comparing the rendering and presentation capabilities of BIM programs is misleading to anyone using traditional 2d cad and thinking about moving to BIM. ArchiCAD has built in rendering engines and can produce photorealistic images with time and patience (see attached) but this is not the true power of the program.
I've been using ArchiCAD for about 4 years now, self taught and I'm using version 12 at present (13 just arrived, waiting for the January lull before installing). At first I only used it for its 3d presentation (photomontages, fly-throughs etc) but now I can:

Produce excelent construction drawings.
Extract great schedules with a few clicks - door/window/finish/blockwork/insulation etc etc - ArchiCAD can schedule ANYTHING as long as its modelled correctly.

ArchiCad also has a range of a few add-ons that can:

Perform energy/carbon evaluation on a model early in the design phase.
Fully integrate mech./elec/plumbing services in the model - clash detection.

+ much more.

So if you're considering moving on from 'flatcad', don't simply rely on how 'nice' the photorenderings seem, get ArchiCAD or Revit on trial and go with whatever seems best to you.

Just me tuppence worth people:D