Push for 3 hour marathon?

geoff29

Hi guys,

Haven't been on this in a while - indeed hadn't been running in a month or two either as I seemed to keep picking up little niggling injuries so thought best to give a good bit of rest, though still ticking over with cycling in the gym etc.

Anyway, last night went out for a slow/long run. Did exactly 8.5 miles in 58:49, which is a shade under 7 mins/mile pace. It was exactly what I was aiming to do when I set off - or a tiny bit quicker actually. I had sworn I wouldn't do any marathons anytime soon but as I was running, despite being absolutely wrecked, I figured I could keep up the pace for another few miles, and it occurred to me that maybe I could try the marathon?

My legs felt great - best they have felt since 2007 sometime - which was nice. So, am wondering at this late stage, thoughts on trying for a 3 hour marathon, or maybe slightly below? I would have no interest in doing it if I couldn't achieve that kind of time.

If anyone has thoughts on this I would be much obliged as I'm quite conflicted whether to push the boat out or not! Suppose I could do the half and see from there?

Cheers.

ps. for any of you athletics-thread guys that are interested - I never got below 5:05 for that mile. I'll keep trying though. Someday I'll get a sub-5!!!

donothoponpop

geoff29 wrote: »

... Did exactly 8.5 miles in 58:49, which is a shade under 7 mins/mile pace... as I was running, despite being absolutely wrecked, I figured I could keep up the pace for another few miles...

So, am wondering at this late stage, thoughts on trying for a 3 hour marathon, or maybe slightly below? I would have no interest in doing it if I couldn't achieve that kind of time.

This is ludicrous, you want to run sub-3 hours on the basis of one run of just over 8 miles where you admit you were absolutely wrecked? You will need to run another 18 miles at this pace after your 8.

Do you even read any of the other threads on this forum? Why would everyone be training for months at much longer distances if running under 3 hours was achievable under your method? What you are intending to do is reckless and dangerous.

By all means prove me wrong, just don't clutter up the front of the pack at the start of the marathon itself because you think you can run sub 3.

geoff29

I'd never dream of starting at the front, that's just not me.

Anyway, it was just a thought. i.e, you're prob right. Another bit of optimistic thinking. I'll revert back to reality.

Peckham

Just to play devil's advocate here....when you way you haven't been running in a month or two, what sort of running were you doing before then?

Have you done a marathon before, or would you be attempting to go sub-3 on your first attempt?

geoff29

Peckham wrote: »

Just to play devil's advocate here....when you way you haven't been running in a month or two, what sort of running were you doing before then?

Have you done a marathon before, or would you be attempting to go sub-3 on your first attempt?

did marathon last year with my sis in 5 hours. (so doesn't count -bar I know what it's like at mile 18..)

2008:
great run 10k 39:55
rte 8k 31:14
docklands run 8k 29:45
esb beach run 5k 18:33
shamrock 2 mile race 11:12 was my last race, july or june sometime. Last recorded time was 4km in 14 something, beginning July.

haven't done any long distance in 2008, last night was longest this year. Was wrecked at 3 mile mark, and 6 mile mark, and 8 mile mark, but felt like I could have gone on more - maybe a little over 10, or maybe a good bit more, hence that got me thinking. The route is hilly enough also.

I use the cycle machines on the race setting and will do 30 mins to 1 hour on them. My general fitness is good. I don't drink/smoke.

tunney

geoff29 wrote: »

did marathon last year with my sis in 5 hours. (so doesn't count -bar I know what it's like at mile 18..)

2008:
great run 10k 39:55
rte 8k 31:14
docklands run 8k 29:45
esb beach run 5k 18:33
shamrock 2 mile race 11:12 was my last race, july or june sometime. Last recorded time was 4km in 14 something, beginning July.

haven't done any long distance in 2008, last night was longest this year. Was wrecked at 3 mile mark, and 6 mile mark, and 8 mile mark, but felt like I could have gone on more - maybe a little over 10, or maybe a good bit more, hence that got me thinking. The route is hilly enough also.

I use the cycle machines on the race setting and will do 30 mins to 1 hour on them. My general fitness is good. I don't drink/smoke.

As someone else who is thinking of doing the marathon without marathon specific training I'm intrigued by this thread.

However the sentence "haven't done any long distance in 2008" is a big no no. You don't have anything in the bank. You'll blow specatularly.

Stupid_Private

If that run is the furthest you've run in a few months than I'd say hold out until the spring marathons. 3 hours or just over 3 hours is realistic with a few months training if you've a good level of fitness to start with.

Nobody can tell anyone how fast they can run...

Lila

You say that you "did marathon last year with my sis in 5 hours. (so doesn't count -bar I know what it's like at mile 18..)". Why does that not count? How did you prepare for it? Did you folllow a standard marathon training plan with a few short / medium runs and a longrun every week for circa 16 weeks?

Surely having experienced one marathon you know what to expect?!

hunnymonster

Lila, running a marathon at a pace much slower than you are capable of bears no resemblance to running one as hard as you can. I did a marathon with my uncle once and as he is a 65 year old asthmatic so it took us 5 1/2 hours. it was like a sunday afternoon stroll and took nothing out of me. A marathon I race, would take a lot out of me and I would be feeling the effects for at least a week afterwards.

Peckham

geoff29 wrote: »

2008:
great run 10k 39:55
rte 8k 31:14
docklands run 8k 29:45
esb beach run 5k 18:33
shamrock 2 mile race 11:12 was my last race, july or june sometime.

These times suggest you have the potential to go sub-3, but as they are all short distance races, you have nothing in the bank as tunney says above. You need to get the mileage under your belt.

I'd suggest looking at some marathon training plans (16-20 weeks - plenty mentioned in threads on this forum), and pick a race in Spring next year that you can build your training around. Some excellent ones around Europe, or closer to home there is Connemara, Cork and Belfast all in the first half of next year.

Doing Dublin would be a mistake that you'll probably regret....but I think you know that yourself.

tunney

Given all our recent discussions of pace calculators.....

macMillian says..

38:21 10km required for 2:59:59
and a 30:26 8km

those 8 and 10km times suggest closer to 3:10 best case scenario.

A fair bit off the pace.
And thats at best assuming that the fitness scales up the distance which I think was agreed would only happen if the miles had been done for the distance

Lila

hunnymonster wrote: »

Lila, running a marathon at a pace much slower than you are capable of bears no resemblance to running one as hard as you can. I did a marathon with my uncle once and as he is a 65 year old asthmatic so it took us 5 1/2 hours. it was like a sunday afternoon stroll and took nothing out of me. A marathon I race, would take a lot out of me and I would be feeling the effects for at least a week afterwards.

Yep, totally agree with that HM. However, I'm don't think it was clear from the OP that's necessarily how last years marathon was approached. If he had to work hard and as he says "knows what it feels like at 18 miles" and it was tough going then, a 2hr reduction is asking a lot. If he found it very, very easy and was there more to support his sister, then perhaps it's achievable, especially given his strong shorter distance results.

I'm always averse to encouraging people to take short cuts or fast forward through training as it can sometimes make for a very tough or disappointing experience. The more prepared the OP is, the more likely he'll achieve his potential and hopefully get the bug for longer distance running

Krusty_Clown

I'm only a humble beginner (don't expect I'll ever see a sub-3), but based on your half-marathon time from last year, you need to do a lot more long distance mileage.

Racing Flat

tunney wrote: »

As someone else who is thinking of doing the marathon without marathon specific training

I'd love to see how you'd get on Tunney, depending on what you mean by not doing specific ,arathon training. If you mean not doing long runs, I would imagine you could stay at 2.45 pace (based on your 10 mile time and previous discussion on another thread) for up to 22miles or so (at beat), but then you might seriously slow down for the last few miles. Would be interesting!

geoff29

cheers for the response there guys - some great stuff.

I agree that I'm totally unprepared, hence the question. To answer a few people, I did the marathon slow with my sister last year, and that was after doing the adidas 5,10 and 13 mile runs etc. all at the same kind of pace, so I was used to meandering on and it wasn't too much of a prob. But the sheer length of it, i.e, the time 5 hours, I found that quite hard going and would have preferred to go much faster.

I think something like the macmillan thing would be out the window in this case as I have no real consistent form - though, like I was saying, I feel fit and in good shape.

when I say 3 hours btw, I'm thinking under 3:15. In reality there is no way I could get near to under 3 hours! But, I suppose like you're saying, I don't have the mileage in the old legs - and yeh - I would be worried that I'd have nothing in the tank at say 16 or something and then have to plod home, crying!!! I would hope that my positive mental attitude might count for something though!!

But still, I'll prob try for the half and see what happens there - not much to lose in 13, and anyway, I suspect I'll be increasing mileage up to 10/12 etc anyway...

the marathon will prob have to wait!

earlyevening

I'd suggest you could do a 10 this weekend, the half marathon the following weekend, an 18 and a 21, then taper. Do these while doing 5 and 8s on an another 2 days a week and you could go and see how you do on marathon day. Aim for 4 hrs? It would be a sort of test run for coming back next year for a more serious attempt aat sub 3.30 etc.
I think your short distance times point to 3.20 or so if you had the distance on your legs. At the moment, I'd agree with the others that you'd probably blow up early.
I did my first marathon with few enough long runs behind me in 4.04.

Rusty Cogs 08

I've a mind to go for a sub 3 in the Spring. Conamarathon looks hilly and windy (few sub 3's last year) with Belfast looking like a complete mess (walkers and relays all over the course). Cork might be an option ??

Across the pond, Blackpool is billed as a 'fast' course (flat, totally closed). Anyone any thoughts on a 'fast' course marathon in the spring ?

Running Bing

Rusty Cogs 08 wrote: »

I've a mind to go for a sub 3 in the Spring. Conamarathon looks hilly and windy (few sub 3's last year) with Belfast looking like a complete mess (walkers and relays all over the course). Cork might be an option ??

Across the pond, Blackpool is billed as a 'fast' course (flat, totally closed). Anyone any thoughts on a 'fast' course marathon in the spring ?

Paris in March?


Blackpool is a right kip:D

Daithi BC

Babybing wrote: »

Paris in March?

+1. I ran it in 2006, and it's virtually flat the whole way round (apart from coming up out of a few underpasses) and very well organised.

Stupid_Private

Babybing wrote: »

Paris in March?

It may be a flat course but the year I did it you couldn't get moving until a few miles had passed. Definately not a course I'd go for a sub 3 on unless I was guaranteed a good starting pen.

You won't get flatter than Rotterdam in April

Woddle

Rotterdam in April is suppose to be great for pbs, its my second choice if I don't get London

MCOS

If you haven't done a marathon but have the pace for 8 miles that would suggest you could accomplish a sub 3 hour marathon, then it may seem a reasonable goal. However, not having the experience of taking that pace further has to give you a doubt if you can hold it or how your legs might react to such a task.

If you go for it and get it, a risk worth taking and a memory to treasure. I'd like to suggest a safe zone if its your first marathon and aim 7 minutes or 15 seconds per mile above what you feel you could possibly achieve based on a projection of current times for shorter distance. It gives you a 'zone' for a goal rather than a specific time. If you hit the zone then its mission accomplished, particularly a bonus achievement if you hit it towards the sharp end or indeed exceed it. The point is achieving the goal and feeling good about it. Feeling that there is room for improvement and knowing that you have got what it takes to get there. Your first marathon is a treasured memory.

Trying to achieve a super time on your first attempt will need careful planning and adequate time to build the base. If it doesn't come off you will reflect on the failure to hit the time rather than the satisfaction of going the distance.

Just one more thing, even if you go for it and pull of off a sub 3 first marathon with your god given talent for running, you will always feel like you can go faster...