Is this emplyment discrimination

thechampion2008

Hi,
a friend of mine who has a degree in teaching english has been applying for jobs in Dublin. The degree is from brazil and recognised by the accrediting bodies here. One of the jobs replied back to a job application -

"Unfortunately we only hire native speakers of English to teach at our school, as per our policy."

Is this allowed?

pirelli

thechampion2008 wrote: »

Hi,
a friend of mine who has a degree in teaching english has been applying for jobs in Dublin. The degree is from brazil and recognised by the accrediting bodies here. One of the jobs replied back to a job application -

"Unfortunately we only hire native speakers of English to teach at our school, as per our policy."

Is this allowed?

That's a tricky one, mY first impression is NO! because they are excluding all non native speakers and are not discriminating based on race etc..

However then again native could be misinterpretated to mean that it excludes all foreigners that are not native to the country, but it really means it's looking for people with a native tounge, which is my opinion seems fine.

It might be it might not, it's hard to say. I suppose could I advertise that I am seeking a professional interpretator , but they can only be graduates from trinity college. I can though can't I.

As long as i am not just for the purpose of not finding an applicant so that i can hire overseas, then why couldn't I.

thechampion2008

i think the fact that my friend has a recognised degree and in fluent in english means that its not on..


is anybody aware of a case being taken to the equality people?

thechampion2008

for the record, i've looked it up online

http://www.equalitytribunal.ie/index.asp?locID=50&docID=-1

its says one of the grounds for descrimination is

"Race colour, nationality, ethnic or national origins"

Does anybody have an opinion?

Spike440

I would argue that it is discriminatory on the grounds of race.

Section 8(5) of the Employment Equality Act:

(5) Without prejudice to the generality of subsection (1), an employer shall be taken to discriminate against an employee or prospective employee in relation to access to employment if the employer discriminates against the employee or prospective employee—
(a) in any arrangements the employer makes for the purpose of deciding to whom employment should be offered, or
(b) by specifying, in respect of one person or class of persons, entry requirements for employment which are not specified in respect of other persons or classes of persons,
where the circumstances in which both such persons or classes would be employed are not materially different.

If a case is taken before the Equality Authority the applicant would contend that he falls within one of the nine grounds, in this case, the ground of race.

At this point, the onus would be on the respondent to justify the policy of not hiring native speakers. I believe that this would be a very difficult policy to justify and that it would be reasonable to exclude "non-fluent speakers" only.

Your friend should speak to a solicitor.

thechampion2008

this person has over 10 years teaching english experience. I believe this practice is widespread throughout the teaching english sector also.

RentDayBlues

This is discrimination, but it may just be the way they phrased it. The correct way to write it would have been

"Unfortunately we only hire native level speakers of English to teach at our school, as per our policy."

Using native level is not discriminatory, but saying native is. However, depends on organisation as some have policies on this which they are clear about and are not considered discrimination - for example having to have Irish to teach in a national school.

thechampion2008

RentDayBlues wrote: »

This is discrimination, but it may just be the way they phrased it. The correct way to write it would have been

"Unfortunately we only hire native level speakers of English to teach at our school, as per our policy."

Using native level is not discriminatory, but saying native is. However, depends on organisation as some have policies on this which they are clear about and are not considered discrimination - for example having to have Irish to teach in a national school.

This is for a private school, and seeing as they did not do an interview or a test how can they make a judgement on somebodys skills without giving them a test or interviewing them?

pirelli

thechampion2008 wrote: »

This is for a private school, and seeing as they did not do an interview or a test how can they make a judgement on somebodys skills without giving them a test or interviewing them?

You seem very passionate about this champion.
I think it could have been phrased better and could say seeking people with english on at the level of a natural speaker. It discriminates against people from the gaeltacht also, so does that make them a minority, I think not.

I think it's phrased poorly and should be amended but that it doesn't specifically discriminate against race, and in the case of your friend , yes maybe it did ( although i dont have the facts) but he could have had a english speaking mother for all they knew. so yes they discriminated in their selection process unless his cv or the application he filled out was able to determine that he did not have english as a native language.

So it is his nationality that they discriminated against. Ahem There is a good thread on planning & site notices.

Victor

I think the school will have needed to set out what the requirements for the position are.

Separately, someone who was originally not an Englidh speaker can get a qualification that says they can teach English. That doesn't necessarily mean they are qualified to teach English at all levels - can they teach English Literature and English for children? Your friend needs to work out what level they require and what level he has.

This may just be a misunderstanding and your friend might be able to sort it out in a phone call. It would be an interesting test of their English, that can go to prove their suitability.

I don't think "native speakers of English" is discriminatory as someone can acquire that level of English.

Dandelion6

The irony here is that most of the people who are teaching English in the schools don't have any formal training to do so...unlike in most countries where English teaching is considered a specialised skill, here we give them a training pack and point them to online courses they can take at their own cost :rolleyes:

I would consider also the possibility that the "native speakers" requirement is really just an attempt to get around the prohibition on racial discrimination. I have a friend who is a native speaker (and highly qualified as an English teacher), but is neither white nor Catholic, and you wouldn't believe some of the things she was told when trying to find work in the schools.

Your friend should consult the Equality Authority.

Spike440

A native speakers requirement IS racial discrimination. It excludes people on the basis of their nationality. It is indirect discrimination under the equality legislation.

Discrimination is permitted in some circumstances where it pursues a legitimate objective, for example a gym is permitted to only hire able-bodied people to be trainers. This would otherwise be discrimination. I did a course this year which put forward the question of whether a company could refuse to hire a Jewish person for a job involving dealing with Middle Eastern companies. The concensus was that such a policy could probably be upheld because it is a legitimate objective.

In this case, I would argue that the legitimate objective is to ensure that candidates have fluency in the English language. While the policy achieves that objective it is disproportionate because it unnecessarily excludes candidates on the basis of race.