10,000 Euro Paranormal Challenge....

Darragh29

Ok, first of all, for the Mods, this isn't an advert or a business opportunity. I mentioned recently in a previous post on this forum that I'm a paranormal skeptic who would love to see or experience something in the paranormal field that I simply could not explain, something that would force me to confront my skepticism.

My background being in engineering, this would need me to have exposure to something actually paranormal in nature, not just a banging pipe, a cold spot or a "bad feeling" about a certain place or anything that would be be subjectively open to interpretation. I don't want to prejudice this little experiment by stating exactly what would constitute direct evidence in my opinion of paranormal activity, but it would have to be I suppose some activity that would be at the upper end of the scale when it comes to haunting or poltergeist activity, for example, something that I could look at with my own two eyes and say, "Jasus, I can't explain that, no matter how I look at it"...

I'm throwing this idea out there, with a view to offering a payment of up to 10,000 Euro for direct evidence of paranormal activity that cannot be explained by a small team of individuals with an engineering/science background.

As you can see, at the moment, this is not so much an offer as it is a provisional proposal, I'm just testing the waters at the moment with this idea. What I want to emphasise is that I do have the cash to follow through on this proposal if it is accepted by someone who can meet the required burden of proof, and I'm showing my cards from the outset, if I can be converted from a para-skeptic as I am at the moment, to someone who has seen/witnessed some event or incident that I simply cannot explain by conventional means, my intention to to write a book on the subject, or going by what I'm seeing on Most Haunted lately, a TV series could be based around the subject matter if the 10,000 Euro payout was made.

Any takers???

Why dont you save your money put it towards a mortgage and go out and look for yourself ?

iamhunted

get that team of engineers and go researching. if someone experienced something paranormal you'd have to be there anyway at the time to be able to say if its genuine or not. these kind of things are rare enough

LouOB

Could I haunt your house for abit?:P

Darragh29

LouOB wrote: »

Could I haunt your house for abit?:P

Course u can! :D:D

faceman

with all due respect OP, while your offer is nice, i think its fair to say that no matter what the experience is, science will have a theory no matter what.

As Ebenezer Scrooge once said about his first supernatural experience:

"Why do you doubt your senses? Because a little thing can affect them. A slight disorder of the stomach can make them cheat. You may be a bit of undigested beef... a blob of mustard. A crumb of cheese. Yes. There's more of gravy than of grave about you!"

Oryx

Hi Darragh, interesting post there. The paranormal is a huge area, had you specifics in mind when you talk of your evidence, and your offer? Or are you open to everything from levitation to ufos and everything in between? Im wondering what kind of responses youll get, looking on the James Randi site, he gets all kinds of strangeness hoping for a stab at his million dollars.:)

pookie82

As I mentioned before I think you'd attract a lot of hoaxers with this idea considering the cash that's on offer. But I think it'd make a great show as an alternative to the ridiculous lows that MH has stooped to. I'd certainly like to see a show aimed at proving paranormal activity to a sceptic rather than a bunch of dodgy hacks trying to prove it to the viewers.

iamhunted

i think the problem lies in just what exactly constitutes proof. its a bit of a minefield - anyone who could prove the paranormal would stand to earn a lot more than 10 grand

Oryx

iamhunted wrote: »

i think the problem lies in just what exactly constitutes proof. its a bit of a minefield - anyone who could prove the paranormal would stand to earn a lot more than 10 grand

When it comes to the more spiritual aspects of the paranormal, I think paraphrasing a quote of Billy Connollys is apt here: The desire to be a politician should rule one out of ever being one. Read as the desire for 10 grand should rule one out of trying this challenge. I just think that you might get the wrong type of claimant if you dangle a prize for doing stuff. But maybe not.

As for proof, the adage is extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof, and I understand that. So whatever the proof, its got to be big, and incontrovertable.

Still, whether you ever got proof or not, this would make a great TV show. A kind of X factor for psychics and ghost hunters.

???

Theres been two of those I know of. Phenomon in America and The One in Australia.

Oryx

??? wrote: »

Theres been two of those I know of. Phenomon in America and The One in Australia.

Any more info on those thats worth looking at? (before I hit google)

SkepticOne

faceman wrote: »

with all due respect OP, while your offer is nice, i think its fair to say that no matter what the experience is, science will have a theory no matter what.

Reminds me of Homer Simpson's "Facts? You can prove anything with facts!"

Skeptic_Desu

faceman wrote: »

with all due respect OP, while your offer is nice, i think its fair to say that no matter what the experience is, science will have a theory no matter what.

I would love to know you these theories that scientists just make up are wrong and are less likely than the supernatural explanations.


To the OP:
Be very careful not to fall into the old scientist's trap "we obviously can't be fooled we're scientists!"
Remember what happened to Peter Phillips and the Stanford Research Institute when they tested Uri Gellar.

Ziycon

I don't speak for everyone when i say this but a lot of people interested in the paranormal and unexplained phenomena aren't in it for the money, don't get me wrong its a nice offer and i can see that your offering just to prove to yourself.

Personally the reason i got into the paranormal was due to an interest and always questioning what I've been lead to believe growing up as a child and conditioned to accept certain things, but to be honest with you, a lot of people would just be happy not finding out the truth then trying to 'persuade' or prove a certain phenomena to someone else when in reality we don't have a clue what it is as we base all over current beliefs and findings on science that was created by humans which could be totally wrong.

The best thing for you to do is to do some research and maybe attend a few investigations.

Skeptic_Desu

Skeptic_Desu wrote: »

I would love to know you these theories that scientists just make up are wrong and are less likely than the supernatural explanations

Well know theory is "correct" science or spiritual .

Skeptic_Desu

Deleted User wrote: »

Well know theory is "correct" science or spiritual .

Well some theories can be supported by logic and evidence making them more likely than ones that are not.

???

Hey Darragh, I love the idea of your challenge and fair fecks to you for doing it. Unfortunatly I don't see it taking off, especially on the boards. It seems to me that anyone who claims to have psychic powers on the boards hasno interest in testing them, personally i think that deep down they're scared they'll be proven wrong. I don't think any amount of money you could offer would convince them to put it all on the line. In my opinion most of the people who use the forum use it as a means of self justification. They come on to be told that the light flickering is a ghost, not a dying bulb, to be told that the psychic throwing out barnum staterments like there's no tomorrow is really telling them what the future holds.

Mate I support your idea wholeheartedly but I don't think the boards are a good place to start.

iamhunted

i think you've highlighted the main problem right there - the only people who could claim to prove anything on the spot would be psychics so its not really a paranormal challange, its a challange for psychics - and i dont think theres too many who claim to be psychics round here ...... i really dont see how it could be easy to prove another form of paranormal activity outside of, as mentioned before, going out and looking for it. First hand experience is obviously the only way to 'prove' any of it.

SkepticOne

There's been people who can see auras on here. I believe stephenmu might be giving a seminar on auras at the paranormal convention being organised by 6th. There's also people who claim to be able to feel energy given out during reiki sessions. Others can dowse for water. Telepathy, telekinesis, etc. Tarrot cards. All these can be tested and I'm sure there's several more that I have not thought of.

What is harder to test is once-off subjective experiences. Someone sees a dark figure in the corner of their eye but when they look the figure is gone. Someone else hears their name spoken but there's no one there. A fair amount of threads here are about this sort of thing.

iamhunted

aye -thats the kind of stuff i mean. its hard to prove that

???

No it's not. It's easily done. The people who claim these abilities just don't want to be tested for fear of haveing to admit they were wrong (they never do but it's still a shock for them).

faceman

??? wrote: »

No it's not. It's easily done. The people who claim these abilities just don't want to be tested for fear of haveing to admit they were wrong (they never do but it's still a shock for them).

thats a bit of a mass generalisation

???

Yes but there's a lot of truth to it... unless someone wants to prove me wrong?

iamhunted

do me a favour and outline what abilities you mean. you are completely wrong if you think its easy to show someone a ghost.

iamhunted

??? wrote: »

Yes but there's a lot of truth to it... unless someone wants to prove me wrong?

what does this sentence mean? you agree your last statement was a mass generalisation and then go on to say that theres truth to it, even though its a mass generalisation - nevbermind the fact you havent really made it clear just what people have to prove to you in the first place.

that makes no sense whatsoever. science would frown on you.

Oryx

??? wrote: »

No it's not. It's easily done. The people who claim these abilities just don't want to be tested for fear of haveing to admit they were wrong (they never do but it's still a shock for them).

Not just a generalisation, but also untrue. I presume you say that because noone here, in boards, has volunteered to submit to any testing as put forward here, so far. Im sorry, thats not conclusive. And yet again your tone is such that you are discouraging those who believe they have abilities to come forward for open testing. You cannot claim to be looking for evidence in an unbiased way while at the same time coming across with a mocking tone and posting thanks to others who openly mock the 'believers' here. Its false, and people are rightly suspicious of it.

For the record, Id be happy to chat about trials and testing in a real life environment with anyone who is interested. (Edit, oh and only if no money was involved) But only someone who comes to it with a genuine interest, and in mutual respect. Not you, in other words.

Darragh29

faceman wrote: »

with all due respect OP, while your offer is nice, i think its fair to say that no matter what the experience is, science will have a theory no matter what.

Well I wouldn't accept that science would automatically have an answer for everything... I've said on here that I'm a skeptic, but I'd genuinely love to see or witness something that I couldn't explain and have to consider it a paranormal experience. I'm humble and down to earth enough to know when there clearly is no explanation and I'd have lost the challenge. The idea of having to convince a small team of science/engineering experts might be a bit offputting, maybe just convince a skeptic such as myself would be enough!

Darragh29

??? wrote: »

Hey Darragh, I love the idea of your challenge and fair fecks to you for doing it. Unfortunatly I don't see it taking off, especially on the boards. It seems to me that anyone who claims to have psychic powers on the boards hasno interest in testing them, personally i think that deep down they're scared they'll be proven wrong. I don't think any amount of money you could offer would convince them to put it all on the line. In my opinion most of the people who use the forum use it as a means of self justification. They come on to be told that the light flickering is a ghost, not a dying bulb, to be told that the psychic throwing out barnum staterments like there's no tomorrow is really telling them what the future holds.

Mate I support your idea wholeheartedly but I don't think the boards are a good place to start.

Well I'm just testing the water here at the moment, as I said, it's not so much an offer as it is a provisional proposal for the purposes of discussion. This offer, if it was fully extended, wouldn't apply to psychic ability, only apparitions/visual evidence of a haunting or poltergeist activity...

iamhunted

if thats the case then I think your money is safe considering that - unless you go out to find these things - you wont have much of a chance of experiencing them. Audio or video would be no good as they could be faked and hauntings dont kinda work on-demand. Rather than such things happening when you are there, its more a case of you being there when these things happen.

Darragh29

iamhunted wrote: »

if thats the case then I think your money is safe considering that - unless you go out to find these things - you wont have much of a chance of experiencing them. Audio or video would be no good as they could be faked and hauntings dont kinda work on-demand. Rather than such things happening when you are there, its more a case of you being there when these things happen.

I accept that... I'm not expecting my mailbox to be jammed with requests. I imagine reastically once in 5-10 years, someone might have an experience that is strong enough and real enough to defy rational explanation. Forget audio or video, I've been to places where that were apparently haunted or suffering from an infestation and I felt as at home in these places as I did in the bedroom that I grew up in.

???

??? wrote: »

Hey Darragh, I love the idea of your challenge and fair fecks to you for doing it. Unfortunatly I don't see it taking off, especially on the boards. It seems to me that anyone who claims to have psychic powers on the boards hasno interest in testing them, personally i think that deep down they're scared they'll be proven wrong. I don't think any amount of money you could offer would convince them to put it all on the line. In my opinion most of the people who use the forum use it as a means of self justification. They come on to be told that the light flickering is a ghost, not a dying bulb, to be told that the psychic throwing out barnum staterments like there's no tomorrow is really telling them what the future holds.

Mate I support your idea wholeheartedly but I don't think the boards are a good place to start.

This is true , but lets not forget the sit at home sceptics that that justify every argument with show me proof.

Darragh29

Deleted User wrote: »

This is true , but lets not forget the sit at home sceptics that that justify every argument with show me proof.

OK, I'll get up off me arse so! Where will I go to shake off this skepicism!?!

Oryx

Darragh29 wrote: »

I accept that... I'm not expecting my mailbox to be jammed with requests. I imagine reastically once in 5-10 years, someone might have an experience that is strong enough and real enough to defy rational explanation. Forget audio or video, I've been to places where that were apparently haunted or suffering from an infestation and I felt as at home in these places as I did in the bedroom that I grew up in.

As has been said, these things cant be preplanned, and offering money wont make it more likely. Id say it might make you more likely to be the subject of fraud, in fact.

I wish you luck in your quest, but I think its going to be like a bad days fishing, involving a lot of sitting around and waiting,with the odd interesting nibble. All you can really do is continually visit places of supposed haunting, and see what happens.

OK, I'll get up off me arse so! Where will I go to shake off this skepicism!?!

You have to say candyman three times into a mirror at midnight.;)

Darragh29

Oryx wrote: »

As has been said, these things cant be preplanned, and offering money wont make it more likely. Id say it might make you more likely to be the subject of fraud, in fact.

I wish you luck in your quest, but I think its going to be like a bad days fishing, involving a lot of sitting around and waiting,with the odd interesting nibble. All you can really do is continually visit places of supposed haunting, and see what happens.

You have to say candyman three times into a mirror at midnight.;)

Ok, forget the money for a minute, where am I most likely to experience paranormal activity in Ireland??? Forget the Hell Fire Club, was up there at midnight last week and t'was about as scary as a visit to me local!

Darragh29

Darragh29 wrote: »

Ok, forget the money for a minute, where am I most likely to experience paranormal activity in Ireland??? Forget the Hell Fire Club, was up there at midnight last week and t'was about as scary as a visit to me local!

Well the place isnt even haunted. :rolleyes:

Darragh29

Deleted User wrote: »

Well the place isnt even haunted. :rolleyes:

Agreed, but probably the best example you will find of a location that appears to be foreboding/scary/haunted, by virtue of how it is perceived as a building. It ticks all the boxes in respect of what a scary place should look it...

Oryx

This thread is a good start i suppose, in order to get suggestions. But if people are having odd things happen say, in their house, it takes a lot for then to contact anyone at all, and when they do it takes a lot of discretion and trust. No one likes to be laughed at. Which is why those who investigate such things, and of course religious folk are asked about it, but quietly and by word of mouth. Its rare youll see it in the media and when you do it can be sensationalised. Which is why i said the well known places would be the easiest way to begin. Tho dont believe all the hype

Darragh29

Darragh29 wrote: »

Agreed, but probably the best example you will find of a location that appears to be foreboding/scary/haunted, by virtue of how it is perceived as a building. It ticks all the boxes in respect of what a scary place should look it...

Well is there anywere you want to try?

iamhunted

finding somewhere haunted is a problem in itself - a lot of research groups get such tips off the public, or private residential cases where these things might happen for a few weeks then stop. then theres places where you hear of hauntings but the owners just arent interested in letting anyone check it out (theres a place in my locality like that - staff report to us about seeing things on the premises but the owners just have no interest in letting us in there).

Not trying to be smart but i think this surely is a case for the old adage Seek and ye shall find - seems to be the only way to stumble across a haunting.

Pi^2

Paranormal things are just events that you have not experienced before and so your body/mind have no idea how they ought to react to it. So I say, try go to CERN and wait till the Large Hadron Collider discovers the God Particle (Higgs Boson) and explain the secrets of the Universe to us simple minded humans. That will surely be a paranormal revelation...

iamhunted

i dont agree. i have yet to experience say, cutting my fingers off - but that doesnt make it a paranormal experience just because I havent experienced it.

The god particle i believe, is a bit of typical sensationalism. its as far fetched as religion itself.

Pi^2

i dont agree. i have yet to experience say, cutting my fingers off - but that doesnt make it a paranormal experience just because I havent experienced it.

The god particle i believe, is a bit of typical sensationalism. its as far fetched as religion itself.

I see I've waited far too lon to reply and get a good argument going.

However, I think you have a fair idea what cutting your fingers off would be like. Its just painful to a more extreme degree than you are used to albeit.

Ain't nothing far fetched about religion if you look at it the right way sir...

Darragh29

Pi^2 wrote: »

I see I've waited far too lon to reply and get a good argument going.

However, I think you have a fair idea what cutting your fingers off would be like. Its just painful to a more extreme degree than you are used to albeit.

Ain't nothing far fetched about religion if you look at it the right way sir...

Jasus you almost had me checking my bank accounts there for a second!

stevenmu

Pi^2 wrote: »

Paranormal things are just events that you have not experienced before and so your body/mind have no idea how they ought to react to it. So I say, try go to CERN and wait till the Large Hadron Collider discovers the God Particle (Higgs Boson) and explain the secrets of the Universe to us simple minded humans. That will surely be a paranormal revelation...

I'd agree with that. If I sit in a room in a supposedly haunted house and think I sense a presence, I will possibly attribute it to a ghost. In reality it could actually be a ghost, or it could be just my imagination, or it could be some passing wormhole in space-time, or any number of other things. Until we know for sure what it is, it's paranormal, and as soon as we do it ceases to be paranormal and just becomes normal (even if it was a ghost).



Oh but I disagree about the LHC, if I ever win Darragh29's money the first thing I would do is bet that the LHC will raise far more questions than it answers.

eimearnll

rant:mad:i always come in here to have a read of the posts in here never actually posted,this post annoyed me.hi darragh29 if you look around the forums in here there are people doing everything thay can for the ssf, you come on here offering stupid amounts of money for the impossable,im a big beliver in the paranormal but i believe you have to be very lucky to witness or even feel something from the other side.fair play to ya if you have that kind of money to mess about with but what your asking in here is silly,id say all of us in here have been waiting for something to happen to us,to see something we cant explain,for me personaly if something did happen or i did see something i would not come on here and say ok give us me cash now cause this happened to me.it would be something ment for me and me only.

ok rant over im in work and this was rushed hope it makes sence
feel free to attack me now

Mr. Incognito

ranti always come in here to have a read of the posts in here never actually posted,this post annoyed me.hi darragh29 if you look around the forums in here there are people doing everything thay can for the ssf, you come on here offering stupid amounts of money for the impossable,im a big beliver in the paranormal but i believe you have to be very lucky to witness or even feel something from the other side.fair play to ya if you have that kind of money to mess about with but what your asking in here is silly,id say all of us in here have been waiting for something to happen to us,to see something we cant explain,for me personaly if something did happen or i did see something i would not come on here and say ok give us me cash now cause this happened to me.it would be something ment for me and me only.

ok rant over im in work and this was rushed hope it makes sence
feel free to attack me now

I din't take it as that at all. He's just offering a prize for something that will make him think, "oh, wow, I can't explain that".

I don't think that's too much of a pointed stick.

offering stupid amounts of money for the impossable

As a big believer why is this impossible. If ghosts do exist, surely we will eventually be able to find a unique way or tool to pick up their energy etc.

id say all of us in here have been waiting for something to happen to us

I haven't. I believe in UFO's on the logic of probablity. Doesn't mean I wait for ET to come knock on my door, because if any intergalactic creatures have the intelligence to travel light-years I'm sure they'd have to intelligence to avoid our planet.

Anyway, it's a good idea, and it's been done before to great sucesses.

canned food was as a result of a prize offered by napoleon for inventions to help the army. If it can't hurt- why not. If you are offended by offering your beliefs up to scrutiny, perhaps you don't believe in them yourself.

iamhunted

it is a bit of an impossibility though - as in right now in this day and age as we dont understand enough to create any kind of tools to detect 'ghosts'. its hit and miss if a person has a paranormal experience and even if they do experience something they believe is paranormal, theres a sizeable chance it wasnt. its a bit like heres a prize if you can help me win the lottery.

He's just offering a prize for something that will make him think, "oh, wow, I can't explain that".

as mentioned before in the thread, the best way to do that is to go looking - and even when you're doing that theres no guarantees.

Darragh29

eimearnll wrote: »

rant:mad:i always come in here to have a read of the posts in here never actually posted,this post annoyed me.hi darragh29 if you look around the forums in here there are people doing everything thay can for the ssf, you come on here offering stupid amounts of money for the impossable,im a big beliver in the paranormal but i believe you have to be very lucky to witness or even feel something from the other side.fair play to ya if you have that kind of money to mess about with but what your asking in here is silly,id say all of us in here have been waiting for something to happen to us,to see something we cant explain,for me personaly if something did happen or i did see something i would not come on here and say ok give us me cash now cause this happened to me.it would be something ment for me and me only.

ok rant over im in work and this was rushed hope it makes sence
feel free to attack me now

Ah you've taken this up wrong, what I had in mind was getting subject matter for a business idea. I'm not just coming out with ideas like this for a laugh, it was part of a wider project I was working on at the time...