Homeless brother in hospital with pnuemonia...

LegacyUser · 01-09-2008 11:39am #1

Hi,

I'm just looking for some advice from people on what to do. My brother is an alchoholic and possibly now a junkie too. He has been taking drugs since he was 15 or so and was initailly a recreational user. This inevitably led to more habitual use and slowly but surely drink began to factor into that aswell. He has been to the Rutland centre twice, the first time was when he was 20 and that was for taking e and coke and he only went in there to avoid a prision sentence for robbing. He completed the course and did great but was back to his old tricks within a matter of weeks.

He carried on and developed a serious drinking habit which he combined with a serious drug habit. He broke my mothers heart on many occasions and she has tried in vain to get him clean. Ironically she used to teach creative writing to recovering drug addicts and she has used all the resources at her disposal to try to get him to change his path. My parents are divorced and after going through the first rehab with him and standing up in court for him, my Dad doesn't want to know anymore. We know that you can't help an addict and they have to want to do it themselves, but it is so hard to watch your brother slowly kill himself. He is now homeless. He is hanging around town, drinking with other homeless alchoholics and my Mam is worried sick about him. She has already lost one son in a tragic road accident and I think we are going to lose him too. We have tried to help him, he stayed with me and my husband for a while, we got him a job, fed him, tried to offer him some sort of a life away from where he is now, but he stole from us, stole from my Mam and he blames everyone for his problems and doesn't accept any responsibility for where he is today.

Can anyone offer me any advice, anything that might help us to help him. He is currently in James hospital with pnuemonia. I just got the phonecall an hour ago and I don't know what to do. The last time I saw him he was very aggressive towards me. My Mam had asked him over for Christmas and he ended up going off and getting wasted on Stephens day and he wouldn't leave her house a few days later. She was close to breaking point and my sister and I went up to ask him to leave. He was obviously coming down, his eyes were pinned, and I know where he was so I reckon he was coming down off smack. He's lost three friends to it already. When we asked him to leave he got very aggressive, especially towards me, because I had pulled him up on him robbing €400 euro from my house and my phone. He says it's my fault he's homeless because I accused him of something he didn't do. The usual lies etc.... So I don't know whether to go to the hospital. I'm afraid, but I want him to know I still love im. I'm still there for him. I want to help him, go to meetings with him, whatever it takes..Sorry I know I'm rambling here, and I'm giving you only a snippet of what years of addiction do to a family. Most people will have some experience with it, so I know I'm not alone here.

I'm sorry for the long post. I'm just so confused and sad and at a loss of what to do. Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks x

mrDuke · 01-09-2008 12:22pm

Would he be better of in prison, somewhere warm, clean, good food, no drugs?

LegacyUser · 01-09-2008 12:32pm

He'd still get drugs in prison. He called my Mam and has asked her to bring him clothes in to the hospital. She is reluctant to because she thinks as soon as he gets them he'll be off. He said he has nothing, no clothes, nothing. She's terrified of going in to see him. He's quite good at emotional blackmail and she paid for him to go to the Rutland in January 2006, the last time he had nothing, and again he was doing great, I went up, did the whole family day, he made promises to stay clean, but he was back drinking within 6 hours of getting out of the place. He's 33 now. We've been going around this for years. I just don't know what the next step should be for us. Do we just go along with it, say nothing, offer support. Every time this happens my Mam goes to pieces. I just feel we're all out of options, but at the same time you don't want to give up on your family, but you don't want to get dragged in either. It's just such a mess.

Miss Fluff · 01-09-2008 12:36pm

I'd go and visit him in hospital if I were you. Many addicts need chance after chance after chance unfortunately, going to see him in hospital is your way of showing him that you still love him and that you still care.

JoeyJJ · 01-09-2008 12:42pm

mrDuke wrote: »

Would he be better of in prison, somewhere warm, clean, good food, no drugs?

plenty of drugs in irish prisions...

My name is URL · 01-09-2008 12:48pm

He's your brother at the end of the day, even if he doesn't act like it doesn't mean you shouldn't. Addiction is a savage thing that tears families apart. If it was you in the hospital bed now, what would you be thinking? Your bro might blame all of his problems on everyone else but Im sure thats just a coping mechanism, the chances are he knows full well why he is where he is today.

I'd say visit him, and show him that you still love him despite the hurt he has caused you.

AngryBadger · 01-09-2008 12:58pm

OP I'd suggest going to see him, for your own well-being more than his.

Go to him, if there's something you feel you need to say then say it, and whatever happens with him after this you'll at least be able to say you left the door open for him and if he wouldn't step through it there's no need to be burdened by his choice.

Sorry to hear this story OP, and fair dews to your whole family for doing everything ye could for your brother.

beth-lou · 01-09-2008 1:20pm

I can't figure out how to go unreg again, so anyway, this is my problem.
Thanks for your replies.

I am going to go see him. How could I not. I'm just a bit scared. I know how hard it is going to be to see him. I've heard so many stories over the last few months from various people that have seen him around town. The last report was that he had three track marks on his arm, which really cut me up. I knew he'd smoked heroin but if he's injecting it, along with the drink, it just seems like such a hopeless situation. He hasn't been in touch for 8 months. The few times he has rang my Mam has been for money. We were going to look for him a few months ago, but a friend of my sisters who is a Gardai, told us not to, that he is hanging around with a dodgey crowd and he said he would keep an eye on him. I'm mjust so tired of feeling powerless and the constant guilt. I know it's not our fault that he is homeless, but still, it's hard to reconcile the fact that I have a roof over my head and food on the table etc and he is in the same city and homeless.
I don't know how he will react when he sees me. I really just want to give him a hug but he could start shouting at me, depending on what state he is in. I suppose I'm just going to have t brave it and see what happens. Two of my sisters would come in with me but they are away and the other has kind of distanced herself from it,(a kind of self preservation)so she's reluctant but will come if I ask her. But I don't want to put that pressure on her. It's her decision.
Thanks for your suggestions.
In relation to the prison thing, there are still lotsof drugs in prison and the problem would still be there when he got out.

r3nu4l · 01-09-2008 1:38pm

mrDuke wrote: »

Would he be better of in prison, somewhere warm, clean, good food, no drugs?

beth-lou wrote: »

In relation to the prison thing, there are still lotsof drugs in prison and the problem would still be there when he got out.

Indeed

All you can do is go and visit him. You know how addicts can be. He'll either push you away through aggressive behaviour or tell you how sorry he is, get your pity and you'll take him in. Then once he's well enough (or before) he'll be into your wallet. I know that sounds harsh but I've a feeling you know as well as I do that it's true.

He may even genuinely mean that he's sorry but sooner or later, if he's on heroin, then the need for a hit will outweigh the feelings of remorse.

For your own sake, let him know you care and that you are there for him. If he tells you to go away then there's not much you can do. Just let him know that you're willing to go to meetings with him, that he's not 'the scum of the Earth' that most people think junkies are and that it's not too late to turn things around. He may tell you to get lost but you'll have tried.

Don't forget that if he's on any medications or sedatives he may be far nicer to you than he would be when he's not on them so maybe ask the doctors/nurses how lucid he is before talking with him. Explain the situation when you ask to see a doctor/nurse.

Dizzyblonde · 01-09-2008 1:52pm

My heart goes out to you, and I think you're doing the right thing by going to see him.
Good luck.

LolaDub · 01-09-2008 2:58pm

Tough situation.

I'd agree with most of the other posters in that going to see him you'll show him you haven't turned your back on him. It sounds like you're concerned he'll be aggressive or ask for drug money. You don't have to accept an aggressive attitude and you don't have to give him anything. Go in talk to him, ask how he is etc. Ask him what he's going to do, if he gets angry tell him you're leaving the room and will be back in a few mins, go have a cup of coffee and return. If he persists then leave him your phone number and go. He'll know you're not a mug and you still care for him.

Good Luck x

marti101 · 01-09-2008 4:40pm

I think really at the end of the day you have done all you can for your brother,you have to think of yourself and your family.Your Mother sounds like a really good women but maybe you have to tell her to look after herself now.Your brother is a growwn man and he has to realise other people have lives and are not as his beck and call.So go to the hospital a nd tell him you will help him but he has to want it,its no use doing it for anybody but yourself.After that just let him be thers nothing else that you can do about it.

Keano · 01-09-2008 8:54pm

OP all I can say is that I hope one day your brother realises the error in his ways and gets help.

Zillah · 01-09-2008 10:10pm

Have you considered why he is stuck in a life like that? Like you said, you can't make an addict quit, they have to want to. Was there anything in particular that started him off on all this? Does he lack self esteem? Does he think he's a failure? Did he do something that might have made him think he doesn't deserve a real life? Does he feel rejected by the family?

You said he got clean for a while and fell back into it anyway, which would imply there's something dragging him back into it.

Getting over addiction is as much about changing lifestyle as it is resisting cravings. Have you ever considered helping him to move altogether? Get out of Dublin, get away from the circles he's used to. A different country or even just away from cities so there's less temptation. Go back to school. Anything that could kickstart a notion of a new life for him.

beth-lou · 02-09-2008 8:37am

Zillah wrote: »

Have you considered why he is stuck in a life like that? Like you said, you can't make an addict quit, they have to want to. Was there anything in particular that started him off on all this? Does he lack self esteem? Does he think he's a failure? Did he do something that might have made him think he doesn't deserve a real life? Does he feel rejected by the family?

The answer to your question is yes, many times. And there are many reasons, most of which we all suffered as a family. The reason he is an addict now though is that he maybe wasn't as strong as the rest of us. But to be honest after 18 years, the reasons for the addiction are irrelevant, because we've been through them, asked him to seek phsychiatric help, offered him a home many times, listened, talked, ignored some of the stealing, the aggression and the threats. I'm tired of his excuses, because while they may explain why he started, they are also what enables him to continue 18 years on. He feels they excuse the behaviour. In truth though he started taking drugs as most people do, for fun. They were having a great time for a year or two, and it progressed from there. I suppose he has never really dealt with anything because he was getting off his head most weekends during his teens and he just got angrier and angrier internally. I understand why he is where he is. I asked him to see a counseller about it, although I think he needs a shrink. The thing is though, had he not started taking drugs he would have probably worked through all this like the rest of us. But there in lies the problem and it's a vicious circle, one feeding the other.
He has absolutely no self respect at this stage. He has no confidence, low self esteem and is depressed. I know all of this. So does he. But he doesn't want to stop. He can't stop. And I can't make him. Although I am going to offer him help again. He will probably do it for a while, but until he seeks professional long term help for the phsychological issues he has and accepts that he has a serious mental health problem we will be back here again.

Zillah wrote: »

You said he got clean for a while and fell back into it anyway, which would imply there's something dragging him back into it.

Yep he was clean for the six weeks that he was in the Rutland center. When his stay was up, my Mam took him in to live with her so he could get started on a new life, and he stayed clean for all of 4 hours, then he disapeared for a few days and arrived back in a state. My Mam has had a lot of heartache, and she shouldn't and can't deal with him when he's like that, which is all the time. She tried to get him to go back over to the Rutland for support meetings and he wouldn't, they talked to him on the phone and the same. I talked to him. But he is not ready to give up. Maybe he is now. Maybe this is rock bottom. I don't know. We'll see.

Zillah wrote: »

Getting over addiction is as much about changing lifestyle as it is resisting cravings. Have you ever considered helping him to move altogether? Get out of Dublin, get away from the circles he's used to. A different country or even just away from cities so there's less temptation. Go back to school. Anything that could kickstart a notion of a new life for him.

Yes. Many times again. My Mam gave him money to move to Spain, my neighbour got him on a Fas course to learn Spainish, which he did, he's quite intelligent when he applies himself. He rang my Dad looking for money not long after. Then he moved to Germany, Holland, back here, away again. He's back here now because he really is out of options and he can't survive abroad on nothing. Moving away was just running away. HE never dealt with anything.
Sorry for the long reply, but your questions are all valid and have all been asked a thousand times. But typing out my answer is actually clearing my head a little, so thank you.

Elessar · 02-09-2008 9:20am

I'm sorry to hear about your brother. But one thing is certain, you cannot help someone who does not want to be helped. There really is nothing more you can do.

Just allow him to make his own way in the world now. He will either realise, eventually the errors of his ways, or continue down the spiral forever. Either way, there is not much you can do about him.

Karen_* · 02-09-2008 9:52am

+1

I think you and your family need to get some counselling as to how to handle this. As other posters have said, you can't help someone who does not want help and I think coddling him is not helping. Even though its very hard I think you need to cut him off. For your sake and for your mothers sake but also for his sake. If he hits his rock bottom then maybe he might seek the help he so badly needs. Sometimes you have to be cruel to be kind but not just for him. You are all hurting and you have lives to lead too.

Its a risk that he might not get help and sort himself out but he's not doing that anyway. Leave him where he is and let him fend for himself. He's got problems and at this stage it doesn't matter whos fault it is. He's an addict full stop. And even if it were your fault, Gods fault or Santa clauses fault then the fact still remains that its HIS life he's ruining. And if he's to get help then he has to help you to help him.

beth-lou · 02-09-2008 1:05pm

Thank you everyone for taking the time to read all of this and thanks for your comments and advice. I am going up to see him this evening. My sisters are back and we will head in together. All we can do is let him know we care and hope for the best.

Thanks again. x

Corcaigh abu · 02-09-2008 9:15pm

Yea, you might find al anon helpful, sometimes it hard to get help yourself, but its important to look after yourselves and your family. http://www.al-anon-ireland.org/ .The forest treatment centre is also good and maybe worth followingup http://www.treatmentinireland.com/ . Good luck

CONMIKE12 · 02-09-2008 10:26pm

I have a similar situation mith my brother although he isn';t as far gone as yours is yet. But these things are progressive diseases and there really is nothing you can do while he still drinks/uses. Untill you understand this you will be wracked with guilt, but there simply isn't anything you, or anyone else can do for him. The alcoholic/drug addict is a master of manipulation.It stems from the fact that they know deep down they are out of control but are too afraid to live life without the feeling they get when they drink or use.It terrifies them so much that they will do and say anything to make you second guess your decisions about sheltering them or providing them with money. All you can do, is to tell them that you love them, but untill they stop abusing their substance of choice , then you will no longer take any kind of responsibility for them, or help them in any way. This is a very difficultthing to do, it hurts when you love the person , but it really is the only shoice you have. Look at how this person is destroying your life and the lives of your familly. Untill they decide that they no longer want that kind of life then any effort you make to help them will be in vain. Now, you must protect yourself from the hurt and pain they cause and be there if they eventually want to stop.The most imposrtant thing is the desirte to stop,if they don't have that then it's pointless. My thoughts are with you , best of luck.

Dizzyblonde · 03-09-2008 9:35am

OP I hope the visit went well and didn't upset you too much. Remember, as a family you've done everything possible to help him and the rest is up to him.
I hope he sees sense and realises what a great family he has.

beth-lou · 03-09-2008 10:25am

Thanks Dizzy,

The visit went well. I am glad we went up. We were quite nervous, but I think he found it harder when we walked in. He was shocked and very nervous, and it took him a good while to actually look at us when he spoke, but slowly he opened up and relaxed. I was expecting the worst, and he is in need of help, but he was very articulate and coherrant. We offered him support if he wants to get better, offered him a family life if he can beat his demons, but we didn't get into blaming and hurt and just listened to him and let him talk. We told him we loved him, we'll always love him, and he will always be a part of our family and that we miss him. We told him that any fight to get off drugs / drink would be very hard but nothing in comparisson to where he is now, and he agreed.

He is getting out of the hospital today, He just has to meet with his social worker this morning. She is trying to get himinto temporary residential care for the homeless. We have rang a centre in Kildare and they have said they would have a bed for him at the end of the week. (Thanks to the member who sent me the link and offered his story). So my sis is over there now, to meet with the social worker and give him the number, but it is a call he has to make himself. So fingers crossed he will, and we will support himin that. If he doesn't make that call, then we have done all we can for him, and we will accept that.

We spoke to the nurse and she told us that he is on the list for the methadone programme. I'm not sure exactly what that means, the list, but I would really rather he went to Kildare for residential treatment. He doesn't know that we know about the heroin, we didn't find out until we were leaving, but he will know that today. So I suppose it is up to him now and we just have to hope that he takes the next step.

LegacyUser · 03-09-2008 8:09pm

beth-lou wrote: »

Thanks Dizzy,
We spoke to the nurse and she told us that he is on the list for the methadone programme. I'm not sure exactly what that means, the list, but I would really rather he went to Kildare for residential treatment. He doesn't know that we know about the heroin, we didn't find out until we were leaving, but he will know that today. So I suppose it is up to him now and we just have to hope that he takes the next step.

There is a waiting list for the methodone programme, officially its supposed to be four months but my brother was on it for nearly ten months and has only quite recently started treatment. I'm no expert but if you have any questions pm me and ill help if i can.

board om · 04-09-2008 2:27pm

Unregeds wrote: »

There is a waiting list for the methodone programme, officially its supposed to be four months but my brother was on it for nearly ten months and has only quite recently started treatment. I'm no expert but if you have any questions pm me and ill help if i can.

it depends on where you go. if you are city centre you can be waiting 2-3 months. if you are ballyfermot you could be waiting up to 12 months. it is different for every clinic and it also depends on what your address is. it also depends on who you talk to. i went to my GP instead of the clinic and he had me on a methadone program in less than 2 weeks. he made the phone calls to the clinc for me and got me an appointment. but your address does come into it becuase there are designated clinics based on your address. originally i was sent to castle street clinc in city centre and i was about to start the program, but then they realised that becuase my address was officially Dublin 4 (by literally a few metres) i was sent to baggot street clinic. so if you have a good relationship with your GP then it might be worth bringing him there first. it could save a lot of time.

tbh by the sounds of things he needs residential treatment. he needs a good 6 to 12 months in a residential care unit. because he is coming from a homeless background then Cuan Mhuire would probably be the best option for him. they have a treatment centre in Athy, Co Kildare. i was supposed to go there a few years ago so i had a few meetings with them. now it is run by Nuns and quite religious, but most of these places are. sure even the 12 step program means giving yourself up to a higher power i.e. God, but it doesnt mean you have to become a priest. i wouldnt be a very religous person at all but i was still going to give it a go. they dont expect you to all of a sudden become Holy Joe or anything like that.

anyways, what happens is he would be taken into Cuan Mhuire for approx 5 months. there are usually about 12-15 other patients at a time. over the first few weeks they will detox him off everything and once he is detoxed they give him a bit of time to rest and get himself together. once he is feeling stronger he will start doing stuff that will help integrate back into a normal life. this would include getting up at 7am, having breakfast, and then going to work on various projects they have on the grounds. they grow vegetables and do gardening and stuff like that. they have lunch and dinner together, and they also do counselling, both group and individual. then they would go to bed at a reasonable time. this gets them back into keeping normal hours, which is something they wouldnt have done while on drugs and alcohol. then they have visitors at the weekend. the only real religous thing they ask of you is that you attend Mass, which is a small sacrifice to make.

the financial end of it is quite good. what happens is you pay about €1k when you go in there. then if you stay the 5 months they give you the €1k back again when you are leaving. the reason for this is because a lot of patients go there, get clean after a few weeks and then leave. then a few months later they are back at the doorstep looking for a bed again. so to try and get patients to stay the full term and get the full benefit they ask for this deposit. i think it is a good idea. apart from that their is no real cost. you see while you are a resident you are able to sign on for disablilty allowance, which is roughly the same amount as the dole, so about €190 a week. you give them your disability allowance each week and they give you an allowance out of it to get your cigarettes and other necessities. then they take some of it towards your food and board and things like that. it isnt a huge amount. considering 6 weeks in the Rutland Centre is roughly €18k i think giving a small amount from your Disability allowance is acceptable.

check out their website http://www.cuanmhuire.ie/ and see waht you think.

another option that might suit him is Coolmine. now that is about a 9 months residential program. they would have a lot more patients at a time, about 30 or so. again they offer a lot of couselling and stuff like that. when the residential part has finished then they help the patients get somewhere to live and a job. thye would have on-going counselling after they leave and they would be recommended to keep going to NA meetings for as long as possible.

i dont know how the financial end of things work for coolmine though. i dont think you pay anything, but because of the fact that it is free it means there is a waiting list for beds.

their website is http://www.coolminetc.ie/ if you want to check it out.

there are other options but these two centres would be more realistic considering his circumstances. tbh places like the Rutland arent much use when it comes to heroin abuse. 6 weeks isnt long enough to treat patients. basically with a lot of the private centres they will send you off to Beaumount to get detoxed and then once you are stable they will take about €18k off you and let you chill out in their facilities for 6 weeks. they do counselling and all that, but in drug addict circles the private places are known as a bit of a doddle, where as the likes of Cuan Mhuire and Coolmine are a lot tougher.

anyways, ive gone on for long enough. if you have any questions feel free to PM me.

all the best.

beth-lou · 05-09-2008 9:04am

Thank you board om. We have contacted Cuan Mhuire and they are waiting for his call. They said they would have a bed for him today, but he has to get in touch himself. Unfortunately, I don't think he is going to make it. He is in a b&b in Swords for a few nights, and we haven't heard a word from him. We have left messages for him to call but nothing. He already knew about Cuan Mhuire and told us "I can get a bed in there any time I want,". So he is effectively back to sqaure one and not ready or willing to break away.

I'm ok about it. I did what I could. He knows we're there if he changes his mind. But he obviously isn't ready to give up. I don't know if he ever will. We will just get on with our lives as has been suggested. I haven't told my Mam that he is using heroin or that he is an addict. I know I have to but I want to tell her in person. She knows the situation other than that, but still thinks it's just alchohol with random drug use. But she needs to know the truth in case anything happens.

So thanks again to all who took the time to reply and offer their advice, help and experiences. It has helped a lot and I do appreciate it.

belltinker · 05-09-2008 9:35am

I know first hand what it's like to love an addict, so I know how hard it is for you, your mum, your dad, even your wife! What I would recomend is you and your mum going to a programme family support for addicts, Im currently attending one and there's a mix of family's who had people go through the system and people who's family are still atticve addicts! What it teache's me is to take a step back-let him be held accountable for his actions, he has to hit rock bottom! After years of listening to my OH telling me he was an addict, I stood by him beleiving he had the strength to kick it, it was so so hard but I finally took a stand and stood with the deads of our brand new house! I had given him the taste of "normal" life and he liked it, then i left leaving the deccission up to him to get help. Not for me, but for himself! As I expected in went a-wall for few days, and hit rock bottom! He finally decided he needed help, and went through the system!

I dont mean to be harsh but over the years all the love and help you have given your brother so far...thinking ye were helping genuinely is there anything you have done that didnt enable him to contuine his behaviour! You weren't, you probaly excused his behaviour and he contuined to destroy the lives of everybody around him.
He's no longer the brother you feel you have to protect, he's an addict, there is so much drink and drugs in his system the only thing ye can do now is take a step back, change the locks on the door, get a protection order for you, your mum meaning if he comes any where near the house he'll be arrested! Addicts are compulsive liars, the things he says to hurt you are reflections of the way he feels about himself and he feels like everybody is against him at the moment!

Ok my bottom line now is you, your family need support from people who know best, go to an programme for the family of addicts, for once take care of yourselves. Let your brother know what ye are doing, there is no shame in him knowing! Also maybe you and your mum could go to open meetings for NA or AA, you hear first hand addicts stand up and talk about the shame they brought on themselves and their families, it is very humbling to hear and give's you hope! Hope I helped.....

Dave! · 05-09-2008 12:30pm

This is breaking my heart

Unfortunately I can't offer any advice (nor would I try for such a complicated situation)

All I can do is wish you and your family (including your brother) the best.

Dave

Mr Benevolent · 05-09-2008 4:01pm

One part isn't complicated. He's in hospital. Go see him.

Sometimes we treat pets better than we do humans. In case anyone whinges, that wasn't a throwaway comment, my dad has delusional psychosis and although h ehas treated us badly, I think we've treated him worse.

Dizzyblonde · 05-09-2008 4:06pm

Confab wrote: »

One part isn't complicated. He's in hospital. Go see him. QUOTE]

She has been to see him, and he's out of hospital now.

beth-lou, keep reminding yourself that you've done all the right things and that he knows you're there ready and waiting when he needs you. Hopefully he'll decide to take that help.

MJOR · 05-09-2008 4:19pm

you have done everything you possibly can at this stage. it's sadly a waiting game now for you to wait to hear from him xxx chin up

Solair · 07-09-2008 9:28am

You can only do your best! The guy is basically very ill and those drugs are particularly difficult to shake off. I don't think anyone would actually want to behave or have a lifestyle like that.

The lack of intervention services for this kind of thing, particularly in the Dublin area where it seems to be a huge issue, is just beyond disgraceful. It's like the Government doesn't give a damn.

I mean, if you consider the cost of untreated junkies in terms of hospital costs, justice costs (gardai, prison), attacks on individuals, damage to property, possibly costs to tourism etc too it makes the costs of treatment programmes seem rather insignificant.

We really HAVE to deal with the drugs crisis in Ireland. The number of junkies in Dublin is pretty shocking when you come from anywhere else and visit. I've never seen anywhere worse. I haven't seen it in Cork, London, Manchester, Madrid, etc

I was trying to have a coffee in Dublin city centre recently and was constantly accosted by junkies looking for cash. It's really out of control.

beth-lou · 11-09-2008 8:33am

Well, just a little update.
Last night I got a call from a social worker who does outreach work telling me that she had my brother on the phone and he was very, very upset and would I go and meet with him. He is back in town and needed talk to someone. So my OH drove me and my sisters in to meet with him. He was in a very emotional state, very down, very confused, bordering on a nervous breakdown. It was very hard to see him like that, we all hugged him and had a bit of a cry. And then we talked. And talked and talked, and eventually he calmed down. He has finally hit rock bottom. We decided on the way in that we weren't going to tell him what he had to do, it had to come from him.
So I asked him what he wanted and he said he wanted help, he has to get out of the circle he's going around in and he can't cope anymore. there was talk of suicidal thoughts and previous attempts which was difficult to hear but it was a relief that finally he was being honest and open and reaching out for real help.

So we gave him the number of a guy in Cuan Mhuire and he rang him straight away. He talked to him for about 25 mins and he seemed to have connected with him on a level that we never could. He is meeting him today at 5pm and they are going to take it from there. The scial worker had arranged a bed for him last night in a homeless shelter, so he went back there. It was so hard to watch him cross the road and go to a homeless shelter while we went home, but we couldn't bring him back with us, he has to face this himself. He left us in a much better state though and he actually smiled and seemed optimistic about the meeting today.

I don't want to get my hopes up too much, but this is the first time I think he might actually have a chance of sorting himself out because it's the first time he has been totally honest with us and to himself. He is in desperate need of phsychiatric care and is open to it, which he wasn't before. So fingers crossed that he makes that meeting. I think my heart will break if he doesn't.

Dizzyblonde · 11-09-2008 9:47am

That's great news and it sounds as though he's really ready to accept help now.
Hopefully this is the beginning of a much better life for him, and the end of a stressful and heartbreaking time for you and your family.

Karen_* · 11-09-2008 10:17am

Great news and please keep us posted re later on. This could be the turning point for him and I really hope it is. People do overcome addictions so there's always hope xx

board om · 11-09-2008 12:31pm

beth-lou wrote: »

It was so hard to watch him cross the road and go to a homeless shelter while we went home, but we couldn't bring him back with us, he has to face this himself. He left us in a much better state though and he actually smiled and seemed optimistic about the meeting today.

that is great news. sounds like a breakthrough.

on the above note, i know it would have been hard watching him going to the homeless shelter while you went to your house, but believe me if you brought him home now it could mess everything up. he seems to be in the frame of mind that he needs help now and if you had brought him to your lovely cozy house with nice clean bed sheets and nice dinners, he could very easily change his mind about getting help. he has reached rock bottom so he knows he needs help, so if you take him out of that disaster zone he will no longer be at rock bottom and he might start thinking he doesnt actually need help. i know it sounds strange but its kind of like you have to keep him at that disaster zone so he realises the only way for him now is back up.

i am delighted he has decided on Cuan Mhuire. it will do him a lot of good. it can sometimes take a little while to get in there but under his circumstances they will probably take him straight away. the difference with me was i had a roof over my head so they knew i could wait around and they kept putting me off. but becuase he is coming from a shelter then they should take him in nearly instantly. and it is a lot better than any of the private clinics. i had an aunt who was a raging alcoholic for years, to the point where my mother had to have her committed at one stage she was so bad. she was very wealthy so she went through every private clinic there is and none of them worked. then one day my mother had enough so she stuck her in the car and drove her to Cuan Mhuire (she actually tried to escape from the car a few times when they got to Athy. she was roaring out the window of the car that she was being kidnapped, but the locals just said Cuan Mhuire is that way, so obviously they are used to it). anyways, she spent a few months there and she left sober. and in fact becuase she got on so well there she stayed on working after her time was up. so it is a great place.

all the best and keep us posted.

loopyloulou · 11-09-2008 12:47pm

This thread is really heartbreaking, i really feel for you OP and i hope that everything works out in the end. It looks like he is ready to help himself, just be there for him like you and your family have been and he will come back fighting fit. xx
Lou

fits · 11-09-2008 12:54pm

Yeah I agree. Totally heartbreaking.

I really hope your brother pulls himself out of the rut. But it really is up to him now.

Naked Lepper · 11-09-2008 12:55pm

r3nu4l wrote: »

You know how addicts can be. He'll either push you away through aggressive behaviour or tell you how sorry he is, get your pity and you'll take him in. Then once he's well enough (or before) he'll be into your wallet. I know that sounds harsh but I've a feeling you know as well as I do that it's true.

Our of interest, are you speaking from experience?

beth-lou · 11-09-2008 1:09pm

Naked Lepper wrote: »

Our of interest, are you speaking from experience?

I would imagine he/she is. Going on our experiences with my bro it sounds spot on.

Last night he didn't ask for anything though and wouldn't accept anything from us, not even a pack of ciggarettes. All he wanted was a bit of support, so that's a good sign.

LegacyUser · 12-09-2008 11:56pm

glad that everything is going well and hopefully he can get straight and back on his feet,

My brother is much that same but I don't think he is that far into smack! But for the last ten years he has been on the booze. Same story of violence/manipulation/stinging...etc.

My only concern is mother who has had to put up with all that ****. Thankfully im not living there any more.

Im glad you still have feelings and concern for your brother. At this stage I think im gone past that. All I feel when I think of my brother is anger. He has just caused so much **** year in year out. The same old drinking/causing ****. Im aware of the arguments that it is an illness and that they can't help. But I think a big part of it is selfishness and immaturity.

Sort for the rant but your title struck a chord with me!

Hope your brother does well.

Homeless brother in hospital with pnuemonia...

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