Pepper Ball Guns

opti76

while watching the discovery channel i saw this clip of a paintball gun that fires pellets not filled with paint but with pepper spray instead and it struck me that this is the ideal for us..

it be used up to 30 feet away and it comes as a flashlight type thing or this one

this one is ideal as it has a quick change cartridge that can be changed quickly .. also has a laser sight for targeting ... which in itself would be a deterrent..

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=Rhhu5U-2Gcw&feature=related




vid here

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=m7-JW7Dbaf0&feature=related

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=80TXr9i7lpg&feature=related

Fyr.Fytr

Looks like something out of the pound shop, cant you get certridges for shotguns that do the same thing?

the locust

Yes An Siochana already has them they are called ferret rounds, which are fired from a 12g shotgun. ERU now have less than lethal teams trained to intervene in siege/barricade situations with these, in combination with tazer and firearms.

What you are describing above would never be used in a low level public order situation. They are for barricade incidents - i.e. to get a person like john mc carthey to come out of a car or building etc. or target a lead troublemaker in a riot etc...
The velocity of these rounds would be akin to being hit by a plastic bullet, if fired at close range from a shotgun so i cant see them ever being standard issue, plus that toy above would be laughed out of the country

the locust

http://www.bellum.nu/armoury/Ferretround.html

eroo

the locust wrote: »

http://www.bellum.nu/armoury/Ferretround.html

That and the 'Bean Bag' round are generally considered reliable . . . both of which are available to AGS.

opti76

yes but not to every member.

this is an alternative to the cs spray that were trialing at the moment..

you can hit your target from 30 feet away as oposed to 2-3- feet away. i know what distance id prefer anyway.

eroo

Tbh,if it was feasible for police use,would we not have already heard of it?

Fyr.Fytr

the locust wrote: »

Yes An Siochana already has them they are called ferret rounds, which are fired from a 12g shotgun. ERU now have less than lethal teams trained to intervene in siege/barricade situations with these, in combination with tazer and firearms.

What you are describing above would never be used in a low level public order situation. They are for barricade incidents - i.e. to get a person like john mc carthey to come out of a car or building etc. or target a lead troublemaker in a riot etc...
The velocity of these rounds would be akin to being hit by a plastic bullet, if fired at close range from a shotgun so i cant see them ever being standard issue, plus that toy above would be laughed out of the country

Thats the fellas knew i heard something about it before, cheers

cushtac

eroo wrote: »

Tbh,if it was feasible for police use,would we not have already heard of it?

A better one is already in use:

http://www.fnherstal.com/index.php?id=368&backPID=255&productID=90&pid_product=254&pidList=255&categorySelector=3&detail=

opti76

eroo wrote: »

Tbh,if it was feasible for police use,would we not have already heard of it?

its being used by law enforcement in the states ...

opti76

cushtac thats not exactly easy to carry on a utility belt as an alternative to a canister of gas thats flammable and can be dispersed in the wind.

if nothing else the sensation of being shot would ensure compliance

eroo

cushtac wrote: »

A better one is already in use:

http://www.fnherstal.com/index.php?id=368&backPID=255&productID=90&pid_product=254&pidList=255&categorySelector=3&detail=

I'm getting the feeling it is mainly used by SWAT/CT units?Or maybe in the boot of a patrol car for use by uniform patrolman/woman?

cushtac

opti76 wrote: »

cushtac thats not exactly easy to carry on a utility belt as an alternative to a canister of gas thats flammable and can be dispersed in the wind.

I never said it was, but it is a system with a proven track record that is already in use with police forces. Using a canisiter does not necessarily mean the contents is easily dispersed in the wind either, foam or liquid CS/OC/PAVA can also be used.

If the GS wanted to equip inidividual Gardai with something capable of incapacitating someone at a distance they would be better off getting Taser.

opti76 wrote: »

if nothing else the sensation of being shot would ensure compliance

Nothing ensures compliance, there's plenty of incidents of people getting hit with baton rounds/bean bag rounds/incapacitants and continuing to resist police.

the locust

opti76 wrote: »

yes but not to every member.

this is an alternative to the cs spray that were trialing at the moment..

you can hit your target from 30 feet away as oposed to 2-3- feet away. i know what distance id prefer anyway.

Yes only available to specialists. They have been toying with those things in the north and the UK for the past ten years (experimenting - see patton report) they are nothing new. To be honest the sprays out performed them in terms of low level public order use and practically for personal issue

OC/Pava Spray will be coming in soon on personal issue, and its way better, more effective in terms of ethics and delivery than those pepper paintballs/projectiles. There is no way the latter would be personal issue as the margin for hitting innocent bystanders etc and bad press is too high.

Gardai have always known to be up close and personal with people. Discriminant Sprays give a range of 4-6ft which is safe enough. If spray doesnt put someone down - the asp will

the locust

opti76 wrote: »

cushtac thats not exactly easy to carry on a utility belt as an alternative to a canister of gas thats flammable and can be dispersed in the wind.

OC/Pava is safer than CS and its not flammable, jet sprays are like a stream not aersol spray, jet sprays perform well against wind (within reason) and can be convieniently stored in utility belt

Traumadoc

A girl was killed by a pepper round after the Red Sox won the world series a few years ago.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Victoria_Snelgrove

maglite

http://www.allpaintballsupplies.com/images/tiberiusblack.jpg



the idea of it being a toy is void that is just a model,


i'm sure it has been looked at and any paintball gun can fire a pepper round. from the overtly tac. to a toy above

cushtac

Traumadoc wrote: »

A girl was killed by a pepper round after the Red Sox won the world series a few years ago.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Victoria_Snelgrove

I believe that was down to misuse on the officer's part, he aimed at the head or was reckless as to whether or not the round could hit her head. There's always a danger that someone could be killed by such a weapon - they are called 'less lethal' for a reason, but in specific circumstances the advantages outweigh the risks.

maglite wrote: »

the idea of it being a toy is void that is just a model,


i'm sure it has been looked at and any paintball gun can fire a pepper round. from the overtly tac. to a toy above

The FN fires stabilised rounds, so should be more accurate than your average paintball gun.