In need of a bank with fast services

Krystian

Hi,

I'm banking with BOI at the moment and there are few things that made me want to switch, things I honestly dislike. But first a little explanation of what services I'm exactly using.
First of all and most importantly I don't go to branch. Almost never. The only two reasons for me to go there is if I have to withdraw amount of money that I would not be able to withdraw in ATM in 2 days time and when I have to transfer some cash into my account [which happened only once this year - paypal, wire transfers... there are so many better ways to 'give' money to someone than cash].

So basically I do all my business through online banking and see no purpose in going to the branch.
So my choice of BOI in the first place might sound ridiculous but when going from branch of one bank to the other asking about terms and conditions they tend not to describe details they know will make me go away, and at that time BOI offer seemed best.

First what I dislike:
1. Security. 6 digit password that I can't change to something longer? Money transfers confirmed by the same password? My god... I think they realise that this is not a password and that's why they call it PIN!
2. Registration of beneficiaries for my online money transfers [when I spoke with one of the guys at branch about it, they have told me it's for security reasons, so that no one will transfer funds accidentally and blame bank. That's like one of the best financial related jokes I've heard in my life].
3. Time it takes to do basic stuff - money transfers that take more than one day! I can understand that international transfer will take 3 days. I don't approve it [since BOI is in SWIFT system] but I can take it. But 2-3 days for domestic transfer? It's faster to go to ATM, withdraw, go to branch of another bank and send it directly to the account!
4. It is never up to date! When I log into my account I want to see it's state! The actual state! I can go to ATM, withdraw 300e and not see this operation on my account for a day! What's worse I can have 300e on my account, withdraw 300e and after few minutes, from different ATM withdraw it again! Even during .com boom money were not THAT virtual!

Ok so.. I should add that I worked on development of 3 internet banking systems for 'a bit' larger banks than every bank in Ireland combined, and I know how things are done behind the scenes [at least the parts I am interested in!].
I want to switch my account to something more usable. This one was good when I was settling in in here. Now I just feel ashamed when I have to log in to 365online to do anything. Oh and they boast about some award they received in 2007. LOL

I thought about AIB, but some of their policies [wait one year to get credit card??] and speed of service leave much to be desired. My good friend who is banking with them told me they needed 2 days to process a transfer of funds to the credit card account. From AIB to AIB. It never took longer than 5 seconds for the card I have and when it did I was just downloading something huge in the background! Second thing is that they will not show him blockades on his credit card! So between the moment merchant swipes the card, and the transfer is confirmed & accounted he can't see his current balance nor where did the money went! For normal swipes this will take one day... I guess we can live with that [but barely, like someone on life support ], but when I will buy something over the internet [very often] or just use my card to leave a deposit, I might not see this operation for two weeks [which is a time limit for an operation to be confirmed if you didn't know] or never [because the deposit will be cancelled during two week period].

What I want from internet banking is:
1. to be secure! Have you heard of operation confirmation tokens sent through SMS? I think everyone with bank account HAS a mobile. This should at least be an option! A password with variable length containing any character I like is a must have!
2. to be able to see my current balance for current account and credit card
3. to be able to use it anywhere I want and any time I want [and not like with BOI - wait a week for a letter to add a beneficiary!]
2. to be able to get my credit card straight away and not wait for it like for salvation which may or may not come
3. to be able to make fast money transfers, which take less time then it would take me to get into car and go with the money to the person I want to send money to!
4. I don't mind paying few euro a year/quarter/month to get the service I want.

I am using things like virtual credit cards, stock and fund markets which I get for free or with an annual charge of few euro, but I gave up requirements like that for banks in here...

Right now I'm thinking about Halifax and National Irish Bank. First one has a big pro - it is opened on Saturdays so from time to time I can actually go to the branch. BOI is opened Mon. till Fri. from 9 till 17. I guess their perfect client is unemployed and earns by winning in lotto. Second one offers credit card as a part of the current account which feels like they know how banking should be done.
I can find no details about things I care most in banking
[listed above] on their web sites nor when I call them, so I thought maybe you could point me to something better for me than BOI.

Regards

Blackjack

Krystian wrote: »

First what I dislike:
1. Security. 6 digit password that I can't change to something longer? Money transfers confirmed by the same password? My god... I think they realise that this is not a password and that's why they call it PIN!
2. Registration of beneficiaries for my online money transfers [when I spoke with one of the guys at branch about it, they have told me it's for security reasons, so that no one will transfer funds accidentally and blame bank. That's like one of the best financial related jokes I've heard in my life].
3. Time it takes to do basic stuff - money transfers that take more than one day! I can understand that international transfer will take 3 days. I don't approve it [since BOI is in SWIFT system] but I can take it. But 2-3 days for domestic transfer? It's faster to go to ATM, withdraw, go to branch of another bank and send it directly to the account!
4. It is never up to date! When I log into my account I want to see it's state! The actual state! I can go to ATM, withdraw 300e and not see this operation on my account for a day! What's worse I can have 300e on my account, withdraw 300e and after few minutes, from different ATM withdraw it again! Even during .com boom money were not THAT virtual!

Not defending any operation, and I honestly don't know what bank can cover your needs but with regards to the above:

1 -while all may have a mobile, how will this work when abroad. I know that Vodafone Ready to Go does not accept Texts while in the US. What about when you're in an area (and they do exist in this country too) where you have no mobile coverage?.

2 - this is fraud prevention. It may be a pain, but I don't see another way around it without a physical Security token of some description. For example, if you input the incorrect details and the funds are gone, you have to wait to recall funds, which can take some time. Further, what if someone accesses your account, and pays funds to their own account - would you not at least like to have the security of approving the request to add their details by getting this confirmation?. The confirmation is only to add the beneficiary, so it's a one off wait when you have to pay funds to the same bene more than once.

3 - not sure where you get the notion that SWIFT takes 3 days. Depending on the currency, SWIFT is pretty much same day. The only thing that prevents it being same day is funding and timezones. As regards Domestic transfers, that's pretty much the clearing system here as opposed to anything else.

4 - Good luck with finding a bank that can overcome this. At weekends I see this problem, but during the week I don't recall ever coming across this.

While what you've stated are all good ideas, it really depends on the Bank and what their product development as well as local Infrastructure will allow them to do. As regards Fee Banking, I have this with BOI. I need to remain within certain terms (I need to keep a minimum balanace of 500 Euros on the account for a certain period within 3 months and I need to do a certain number of Internet transfers each month) but these are very easy for me to do. This may not be the case for all so this may not work for you either.

Krystian

Blackjack wrote: »

Not defending any operation, and I honestly don't know what bank can cover your needs but with regards to the above:

1 -while all may have a mobile, how will this work when abroad. I know that Vodafone Ready to Go does not accept Texts while in the US. What about when you're in an area (and they do exist in this country too) where you have no mobile coverage?.

2 - this is fraud prevention. It may be a pain, but I don't see another way around it without a physical Security token of some description. For example, if you input the incorrect details and the funds are gone, you have to wait to recall funds, which can take some time. Further, what if someone accesses your account, and pays funds to their own account - would you not at least like to have the security of approving the request to add their details by getting this confirmation?. The confirmation is only to add the beneficiary, so it's a one off wait when you have to pay funds to the same bene more than once.

3 - not sure where you get the notion that SWIFT takes 3 days. Depending on the currency, SWIFT is pretty much same day. The only thing that prevents it being same day is funding and timezones. As regards Domestic transfers, that's pretty much the clearing system here as opposed to anything else.

4 - Good luck with finding a bank that can overcome this. At weekends I see this problem, but during the week I don't recall ever coming across this.

While what you've stated are all good ideas, it really depends on the Bank and what their product development as well as local Infrastructure will allow them to do. As regards Fee Banking, I have this with BOI. I need to remain within certain terms (I need to keep a minimum balanace of 500 Euros on the account for a certain period within 3 months and I need to do a certain number of Internet transfers each month) but these are very easy for me to do. This may not be the case for all so this may not work for you either.

Thanks for answer.
Well I as well have to transfer my funds at least 3 times during a quarter to apply for free banking... but that's covered by rent not to mention other transfers.

Ad 1. It is optional for one, so if you are not covered by your mobile network [somehow I think you will not be able to create the transfer anyway... ] then you will simply not opt in. I guess if you have roaming enabled you should get the text. If not - opt out for a period of time and stick to other form of approving your operations.

Ad 2. SMS confirmation, list of passwords you can use only once, separate password for operations, security tokens which generate passwords [which mobile is not java enabled? this can be installed on your mobile!]. Pick any...

Ad 3. International swift takes 3 days [or at least that's the time I have to wait every time I transfer funds to my primary account]. Domestic swift should be a matter of transfer sessions between banks. You send your transfer, it gets queued, during session it gets send to swift system where it remains until other bank, during its session takes it from the system and processes it. Thing is, when transferring funds between BOI and AIB [three times now] it took longer than one day. I found no info on the websites about time at which they have their transfer sessions. Till now I always were aware of 3 incoming and 3 outgoing sessions per day in banks, but I guess this might vary.

Ad 4. Yesterday around 8am I've paied for my stay at hotel. It's 10am the other day and I still can't see it on my balance. Better... I can see a charge for cinema tickets I bought on Thursday with wrong date [Friday]!
It's very hard to call it different than a fraud. How can they count APR properly if they don't know when money are transfered?

I can add that my 'current' balance was different than the statement on the 365online. Only after I logged out and logged in after some time I could see additional operation.

I know it sounds like moaning but I simply never know how much money I have on my account. With few direct debits it is hard to track using pen and paper.

Of course we can forget about using services like mint.com unless someone has enough free time to write a parser for the online statement...

Keano

This thread reads very similar to why I will never bank wiht BOI again! OP I know you don't mean to moan and you are entitled to an excellent service like everyone is but have no doubt all banks have their problems/flaws. Tbh I don't know if there is a bank that will perfect for you.

Krystian

HI Keano,

It's not even about entitlement to excellent service.
I would like to hear from people from different banks.

I know I will not find an ideal one, but I am trying to switch to something closest to my requirements.

Is the problem with sending fund to credit card similar in other banks as well [can take about 2 days to do so?!].

Regards

Toots

Blackjack wrote: »

As regards Fee Banking, I have this with BOI. I need to remain within certain terms (I need to keep a minimum balanace of 500 Euros on the account for a certain period within 3 months and I need to do a certain number of Internet transfers each month) but these are very easy for me to do. This may not be the case for all so this may not work for you either.

Just for info, they've changed the Ts&Cs for the free banking, it's now keep a minimum balance of €500 in the account at all times OR do three transfers on 365online or phone in the quarter to qualify. It used to be that you had to do both, but that didn't work out for everyone. Most people could do one or the other, but few could do both.

Krystian wrote: »

Is the problem with sending fund to credit card similar in other banks as well [can take about 2 days to do so?!].

AFAIK, yes this is the same for all banks. When you go to pay your credit card, the funds go into a suspense account and that is reconciled on to your credit card. I know on 365 it takes 24 hours, and I'd always recommend customers pay the card online if they can cos it's faster. To the best of my knowledge, no bank has the facility for an instant funds transfer onto a credit card.

dotsman

With regards to the credit card transactions taking up to a few days to appear. That's down to the retailer. When you make a transaction, your bank is not actually charge until the retailer runs off their POS systems. Commonly this is done at closing, but sometimes they might not do it for a day or 2. After that, the bank that the retailer is with then picks up all these details in a daily batch program. They then send the details on to your bank, which again picks it up in a daily batch. As you can see, this can all happen in the 1 day, or take several days.

Ultimately, most of your problems seem to be around this issue - and that is a lot of transaction (especially inter-bank transactions) happen with an overnight batch job and not in real-time. There are a million and 1 reasons for this and most countries/banks are the same. Though transferring to an account in the same bank should always be immediately and another bank within 24 hours max.

As for security, I know AIB have 2 tier security (ie a static PIN to login and a Code card containing one-off passwords for high risk activity). Again, you must register your recipients, but you do this online (with your code card authenticating it) and can transfer to them immediately. I'm not sure what other banks (other than Rabo with it's FOB, where I'm also a customer, but then they don't offer much on their online banking).

To be honest, I have used online banking in the US as well, and I have to say that I can't think of anything to complain about AIB's online banking (except that I can seem to get my mortgage account to appear online).

Krystian

Hi dotsman.

No one is gathering data and sending it overnight. Everything is done in realtime and bank is receiving [or can receive] this info in realtime as well. If they do process it overnight then they don't care about their customers. I don't want to get into this as this is completly offtopic.

Thanks for info on the two tier security. I wish someone from Halifax or National Irish Bank could describe more or less how this things work there. For example: can you change your password at any time to a longer than 6 digit one?

I wish euro was present in every UE country...

Thanks