New PI Guidelines

KyussBishop

After some of the hideously bad advice and crass replies relating to suicide in this thread, I think it would be a good idea to add some new guidelines to the PI forum.
I'm not sure what to suggest though, as I think that even without new rules, mods should have stepped in very early in that thread; if similar replies were made in a thread where the original poster was suicidal, I'd say many people would have been insta-banned for the replies they made.

Perhaps also add a new sticky thread (seperate from the other stickies), for links and general information about what to do when the reader or a friend is feeling suicidal?
Maybe have that sticky also include general information about depression and similar problems as well?

MizzLolly

I posted something quite personal in that thread in order to advise the OP. While some of the posts may have seemed harsh, there was a lot of sound advice in there too.

Besides the thread appears to have been locked anyway so somebody obviously did step in.

DetectivFoxtrot

I don't think its possible to have rules that ensure bad advice isn't given. It's the risk you take across the board with a public message board, PI or not. From my quick read no poster was personally abused, just a lot of very strong opinions on a very sensitive subject.
Most of us know of someone who has committed suicide and also know the attention-seeking type that'll never do it in a million years.
It's unfortunate that the thread decended into a "is he genuine or not" mode, and on that point the modding could have been stronger, i.e. brought back to giving the OP advice on what to do/next steps etc.. the point of whether the OPs suicidal friend was genine or not was repeated at nauseum and the thread got quite boring......

MizzLolly

I don't think it did 'descend' into 'is he genuine or not?' mode. In fact, the advice in the last couple of pages was more helpful than the first few posts. I didn't find the thread boring either. A mod even posted earlier on in the thread so they were surely aware of what was being said. The OP was also told to advise him to contact his GP/the samaritans etc...Good advice was given and nobody became particularily abusive. It is a sensitive issue so emotions were bound to be heightened in it. Everybody seemed to agree on the fact that the OP was not responsible for her friend's actions, it's just that everyone went about saying it in a different way.
There were mixed responses and lots of advice. I don't think it could have been dealt with any differently.

Dudess

KyussBishop wrote: »

if similar replies were made in a thread where the original poster was suicidal, I'd say many people would have been insta-banned for the replies they made.

Of course. But the original poster wasn't suicidal.

I agree some (a minority though) of the responses were awfully aggressive, but you'll always get that on Personal Issues - that's what the moderators are for, and it's a forum that is very well moderated, with a new mod added there recently.
Not one post from that thread was reported - if you think anything's out of line, hit the report button. The moderators can't be constantly going through the forum with a fine-tooth comb but the report function flags any potential problems to them. Bringing in new guidelines won't stop muppets from posting idiocy or abuse there.

The current guidelines leave pretty much no stone unturned anyway, including tweaks and updates.

Beruthiel

KyussBishop wrote: »

I'm not sure what to suggest though

If you think there should be 'new rules' then it would be useful to know what changes you think need to be made.
If you think the thread wasn't handled well, then come up with a better way.

mods should have stepped in very early in that thread; if similar replies were made in a thread where the original poster was suicidal, I'd say many people would have been insta-banned for the replies they made.

Yes. But, the OP wasn't sucidal, so your point is moot.

Perhaps also add a new sticky thread (seperate from the other stickies), for links and general information about what to do when the reader or a friend is feeling suicidal?

We have enough stickys in PI as it is. There are already links to help you in the Handy Links thread.

Also, as Dudass said, I don't recall seeing any reported posts from you.
Reporting a post is what you are supposed to do instead of rushing straight to Feedback.

Dudess

"Dudass" :mad:

Freudian slip...?

Bob the Builder

There are no guidelines, you can ever make that will ever prevent idiots from doing what idiots do.

Beruthiel

Dudess wrote: »

"Dudass" :mad:

Freudian slip...?

Ooops

Early morning + not awake yet.

D

Hijacking thread to start a petition to have Dudess' name changed to Dudass.

Dudess

I'm actually growing quite keen on the idea...

WindSock

Why was the thread locked?

Beruthiel

WindSock wrote: »

Why was the thread locked?

Who ever locked it had a good reason. Sometimes they are not ones we will publicise due to confidentiality.

dr.bollocko

PI is one of the best modded forums on boards. I trust the mods of that forum to do what's right on a case by case basis.
Until they cross me.

faceman

The problem with PI is that you can get some very vulnerable individuals getting very poor advice from unqualified people without tight moderation. Also i imagine there are circumstances where the more emotional immature/unstable posters may post for help but only listen to what they want hear, which could be bad or detrimental advice.

Personally without giving it too much analysis given to it, i would prefer to see the unhelpful posts on sensitive topics deleted rather than the poster just warned. Maybe that happens already, obviously i dont know.

PI shouldn't a be place for debate. There a bus load of mods there so i imagine they keep themselves up to date on what's allowed etc.

I think one or 2 of them have some counseling qualifications?

Nevyn

faceman wrote: »

I think one or 2 of them have some counseling qualifications?

If any of us did it is not something we would be disclosing as we are not paid as nor do we function as counselors in our interactions on the PI forum.

faceman

Thaedydal wrote: »

If any of us did it is not something we would be disclosing as we are not paid as nor do we function as counselors in our interactions on the PI forum.

True, but the samaritans arent paid either. I dont believe it necessary for qualifications to be disclosed to the masses, the admins will know what they want for the forum from the outset.

As i already said, if unqualified (be it through college or training) individuals moderate the forum (and im not trying to suggest that its the case), then there is a risk (as small as it may be) that poor or potentially detrimental information/advice is tolerated.

Regardless of whether or not someone is paid to moderate the job is completely irrelevant in that regard.

For the record Im not suggesting there is a bad job being done in PI at present. I dont frequent it that often anyway. Any threads I do contribute to I dont have complaints about. (If i did i would report the post )

Nevyn

The reason I responded to this thread is to knock on the head the idea or rumour that we are ( the PI mods) counselors, we are not, end off.

We don't need some misguided person pestering any of us via pm trying to enguage with us in that way.

faceman wrote: »

True, but the samaritans arent paid either.

They are trained, have back up, have personal support and are covered by the operations insurance.

faceman wrote: »

I dont believe it necessary for qualifications to be disclosed to the masses, the admins will know what they want for the forum from the outset.

I am sure that if you wish to contact the admins with your suggestion they will give them the time and thought they deserve.

faceman wrote: »

As i already said, if unqualified (be it through college or training) individuals moderate the forum (and im not trying to suggest that its the case), then there is a risk (as small as it may be) that poor or potentially detrimental information/advice is tolerated.

The PI forum is one small section of a huge site it is not set up as a stand alone support forum, yes other places like that exist online but not here.
End of the day there are some standards in PI but it is a bunch of strangers on the internet and posters have to take that into consideration.

Rev Hellfire

faceman wrote: »

The problem with PI is that you can get some very vulnerable individuals getting very poor advice from unqualified people without tight moderation.

Without exception everyone who gives advise on the PI (or other forums) to vulnerable people are unqualified. And it is questionable as to whether those who are qualified should be practising on the forum.

Silverfish

faceman wrote: »

As i already said, if unqualified (be it through college or training) individuals moderate the forum (and im not trying to suggest that its the case), then there is a risk (as small as it may be) that poor or potentially detrimental information/advice is tolerated.

You could say that about the Electrical forum, Fitness, motors......

faceman

Thaedydal wrote: »

The reason I responded to this thread is to knock on the head the idea or rumour that we are ( the PI mods) counselors, we are not, end off.

We don't need some misguided person pestering any of us via pm trying to enguage with us in that way.

Completely agree. Again to point out, I have never said there is anything wrong with PI moderation in my posts, Im merely expressing my opinion.

Thaedydal wrote: »

They are trained, have back up, have personal support and are covered by the operations insurance.

Of course they do, but i imagine some of their callers could be posters here at some stage.

Thaedydal wrote: »

I am sure that if you wish to contact the admins with your suggestion they will give them the time and thought they deserve.

Just offering my point of view which again i point out wasnt negative against the current PI setup. The purpose of this thread was to promote a discussion, and its in feedback so if the admins have any concerns Im sure they will take into account the comments here.

Thaedydal wrote: »

End of the day there are some standards in PI but it is a bunch of strangers on the internet and posters have to take that into consideration.

Silverfish wrote:

You could say that about the Electrical forum, Fitness, motors......

Yeah thats true, although id imagine we dont get as many emotionally unstable unqualified electricians asking if they stick a screwdriver in a socket while standing in water will they die and is it worth doing!

Just to go back to my point, because I feel that im been dragged than the path of being a "powah fighter", which Im certainly not nor where my posts criticising current moderation. The point i was trying to make that PI will attract vulnerable people. It will attract adolescents who will read what they want to read. It will attract people with issues that are potentially the symptoms of far more serious issues. A touch of responsible moderation goes a long way in minimises further damage from the what the OP originally came with. And again to reiterate, Im not saying that irresponsible moderation is what is currently there.

Beruthiel

Well as 4 days have passed and KyussBishop has not posted up his guidelines.
I'll assume he has none and close this thread.
B