Post Codes!!!!

Bass Cadet

When the f@ck are we gonna move into the 20th century (sic) and get POST CODES?? Trying to apply to an American college for a masters and without a postsode, its a nightmare!! :mad:

Rant over

ScumLord

Postcodes are the devil and I'll fight tooth and nail to keep them out of this country.

biko

Ireland don't need post codes. We're not big enough.
Just use 000 or something : oldrolleyes :

Bass Cadet

biko wrote: »

Ireland don't need post codes. We're not big enough.
Just use 000 or something : oldrolleyes :

I hope you're taking the p!ss!

tman

You seriously think Ireland needs post codes outside of the pale???:p

Just use 12345 or 00000 like everybody else

ARGINITE

ScumLord wrote: »

Postcodes are the devil and I'll fight tooth and nail to keep them out of this country.

+1.

biko

Bass Cadet wrote: »

I hope you're taking the p!ss!

Explain yourself

ukgalwaymcguire

biko wrote: »

Ireland don't need post codes. We're not big enough.
Just use 000 or something : oldrolleyes :

AGREED
post codes in the uk are used for credit checks
if you had a number of people in your road who default on credit they put everyone with that postcode in the same bag..
keep them out!

PopeBuckfastXVI

Postcodes are for the convenience of the postal service, not for online forms.

I use 0 or 0000 and it generally works... if you need an american style zip code use 90210

Madame Razz

Or just put GY, or GY 123.

If something simply has to be put down.

leeroybrown

I'd suggest that the two main reasons that we don't have post codes are:

1) When they're suggested the main proponents of them include junk-mail senders and credit checkers. If anything is likely to whip up opposition it's this.

2) An Post stand to lose a lot if they're introduced and as such will object. They already have a sorting system and delivery network so the last thing they want is a system that allows any delivery agent with a GPS to get most of the information from a post code. There's a possibility they may already have an internal post code system.

If I need to supply a postcode I normally use 00000 as it's generally accepted and unlikely to cause any address confusion.

Bass Cadet

tman wrote: »

You seriously think Ireland needs post codes outside of the pale???:p

Just use 12345 or 00000 like everybody else

My God, you people are still in the Dark Ages!!

I can think of loads of reasons why we need them. First of all...navigation, GPS would be much more effective and I don't just mean for finding Johnny's Tool Hire in Mayo but for businesses that use GPS and sat nav everyday for their work like construction companies, county council/service maintenance, etc.

The whole postal service would be run more efficiently, it would benefit government services, even the health service providing data on particular post codes. There is a reason why every country in the EU except us and Greece have a postal code...

Also...what about the future? Do we wait until the population reaches a certain point before they are implemented? I suppose, that would be typically Irish...introduce something decades after it should have been implemented!

Also, it'll help supermacs find my gaff faster!!

As for people complaining about junk mail...90% of junk mail in a city is delivered by hand, we already get junk mail.
And if people are paranoid about any other dodgy reasons why the governement woul;d want to have postcodes...hello? They already have ALL your information. They don't need postcodes for that

ScumLord

It's been a while since I used GPS but last time I did the vast majority of roads in the west of Ireland wheren't on it.

How do postcodes work in small towns or rural areas where you might only have two house within a 5 mile radius? They have no benefit to the emergency services then because they still have to find the road that the house is on. The postcode would be as useful as knowing the parish the house is in.

The local postman who knows where everybody lives is the only way to get post delivered in the country. They can even get your post to you with partial addresses.

Bass Cadet

ScumLord wrote: »

It's been a while since I used GPS but last time I did the vast majority of roads in the west of Ireland wheren't on it.

How do postcodes work in small towns or rural areas where you might only have two house within a 5 mile radius? They have no benefit to the emergency services then because they still have to find the road that the house is on. The postcode would be as useful as knowing the parish the house is in.

The local postman who knows where everybody lives is the only way to get post delivered in the country. They can even get your post to you with partial addresses.

All roads in the west of ireland besides some very small local roads are on sat-navs. We use them everyday for work. Granted if we had postcodes we could probably do the work faster!

I presume emergency services can use GPS and sat-navs (or at least they should do)...simply enter in the post code and away ye go. There are plenty of houses in the states and other countries in very remote areas that work off post codes. I don't see why it would be different here. In fact I'm pretty sure some sat nav companies have had to come up with their own (post) codes for areas of ireland because postal ones aren't available.

Postmen being able to work off partial addresses isn't the point imo. Fair to play to them if they can, but they shouldn't have to. If there is at least a postcode on the address, it will get there. In this day in age we shouldn't have to rely on postman Pat knowing where every family in the community lives

In other words, there are numerous reasons besides the postal service why we should have post codes not least that it might prevent us having to give directions to annoying tourists!

WooPeeA

I usually post "N/A" in the post code field.

leeroybrown

Bass Cadet wrote: »

I presume emergency services can use GPS and sat-navs (or at least they should do)...simply enter in the post code and away ye go.

It works very well for ambulances in the UK. They can normally get close enough in awkward areas that they can either spot the destination or only need minimal directions.

Bass Cadet wrote: »

As for people complaining about junk mail...90% of junk mail in a city is delivered by hand, we already get junk mail.

I agree, but it still became one of the primary objections the last time post code introduction was discussed.

I'd definitely be in favor of post code introduction but I think that between the various junk mail objectors and An Post who will also object I think it will be difficult to find the political will to push them through. Having your national postal agency 'defending itself' against post codes for anti-competitive reasons isn't good but it does make it a lot more difficult to introduce them.

ScumLord

Bass Cadet wrote: »

Postmen being able to work off partial addresses isn't the point imo. Fair to play to them if they can, but they shouldn't have to. If there is at least a postcode on the address, it will get there. In this day in age we shouldn't have to rely on postman Pat knowing where every family in the community lives

I don't think Irish postmen (outside of cities) would ever rely on them. The fact is they are often locals that do know everything about everyone. They won't pay a bit of attention to postcodes. I'd rather have a knowledgeable postman the a postal service that can blame the computer so no ones responsible for anything.

A postcode will not give an exact location if I'm not mistaken. It'll only give you an location down to a few houses, which would work great in cities where you have numbered houses but in the country I just don't see it working.

I also have no faith in the Irish governments ability to introduce postcodes without the mail service grinding to a halt.

leeroybrown

ScumLord wrote: »

A postcode will not give an exact location if I'm not mistaken. It'll only give you an location down to a few houses, which would work great in cities where you have numbered houses but in the country I just don't see it working.

You'd actually be surprised how accurate they can be. If you look at the UK post code system even in the most rural of areas the a GPS should be able to get you close enough to find an address within a few minutes. In outer suburban areas with low density and unnumbered houses/buildings they will have a very high success rate. They really do work wonders for ambulances and for delivery agents who don't know the area.

From a postal point of view you get a huge improvement in sorting efficiency and reliability. So long as the first part of a UK post code is correct the mail will get to the correct post office and the second part will get it to the right postman. You also get the huge advantage of having two reliable addresses to cross check in the event of a mis-delivery. I would guess that the current An Post address based delivery system actually runs it's internal sorting using what could be called a post code system.

WooPeeA

Post codes are needed in two cases:

1. Automatic selection of letters by computers (they don't read hand-written addresses). It's fast, cheap and used in most of the countries.

2. If there's more than 2 or 3 cities in the country that has same name.

leeroybrown

WooPeeA wrote: »

2. If there's more than 2 or 3 cities in the country that has same name.

You get this a surprising amount in Ireland. Generally you'll find that most of the locals in these areas deliberately mis-address their post so that the name of the town with their local sorting office is included.

I used to live at an address near the border of two counties. We deliberately used a postal address with the wrong county as otherwise it went to the wrong sorting office (in the correct county) and took an extra day to be delivered.

ScumLord

leeroybrown wrote: »

You'd actually be surprised how accurate they can be. If you look at the UK post code system even in the most rural of areas the a GPS should be able to get you close enough to find an address within a few minutes. In outer suburban areas with low density and unnumbered houses/buildings they will have a very high success rate. They really do work wonders for ambulances and for delivery agents who don't know the area.

In the UK though they don't allow one off housing like they do here. They actually think about the long term affects of allowing one off housing and restrict new houses to be within the limits of a town. Here, you can build wherever you like as long as you know your local.

Here you can have a house in the middle of nowhere with relations aloud to build (somewhere within the vaccinate) of the family home.

As much as I like the efficiency of other European countries. I love the Irish attitude to modern systems. You can't say the Irish people are under the thumb of the government because the government have no idea where we are. I don't like over baring governments even though I'd say I have very socialist leanings.

DRakE

000

/thread

ukgalwaymcguire

ScumLord wrote: »

In the UK though they don't allow one off housing like they do here. They actually think about the long term affects of allowing one off housing and restrict new houses to be within the limits of a town. Here, you can build wherever you like as long as you know your local.

Here you can have a house in the middle of nowhere with relations aloud to build (somewhere within the vaccinate) of the family home.

As much as I like the efficiency of other European countries. I love the Irish attitude to modern systems. You can't say the Irish people are under the thumb of the government because the government have no idea where we are. I don't like over baring governments even though I'd say I have very socialist leanings.

TOTALLY AGREE!:)

wet-paint

Is the whole Dublin 1, dublin 4, 12 etc not a post code?

leeroybrown

wet-paint wrote: »

Is the whole Dublin 1, dublin 4, 12 etc not a post code?

They are but they only designate a specific postal district. They're a hangover from the old UK postal district system and date back to the early 1900's in Dublin and far earlier in some English cities. London and other big UK cities would have had a similar designations until the UK post code system was introduced in the 1960's and 1970's.

Mrs OBumble

Sheesh! I'd settle for every street having a name, and for signs at the end of every street saying that the name is. It would be nice if the numbers could be consistent as well - perhaps all the odd numbers on one side, and the evens on the other. And houses numbered in order would be nice, too.

:rolleyes:

Those features would reduce the number of annoying tourist questions no end ...

cornbb

Local knowledge > postcodes.

Well I can see all the potential advantages, in many ways it would be nice to have every address neatly indexable. On the other hand, having worked in a call centre that serviced UK customers, I would have major privacy concerns about the system*. I like the ambiguity thats built into the current addressing system in Ireland, the fact that postmen in rural Ireland know which neighbours to drop packages to when you're on holidays, etc. I can deal with the hassle of typing in 0000 if it means keeping our old system tbh.

*With a postcode system, its possible to find out a hell of a lot of information about famous people if you know what street they live on...

cornbb

cornbb wrote: »

I like the ambiguity thats built into the current addressing system in Ireland, the fact that postmen in rural Ireland know which neighbours to drop packages to when you're on holidays, etc.[/size]

Even with postcodes that happens, in London I had to sign for a package for John Sergeant

Amazotheamazing

There's been postmen in my family for five generations now and I'll resist to the death postcodes (or not, I'm fairly passive).

People in Ireland know each other, postcodes aren't really that necessary.

I remember hearing how back years ago a postcard arrived in the Limerick depot addressed to Sean, Limerick. Naturally, that could be several hundred, if not even a few thousand, people. But the postmen passed the card around, where it was from etc.

One of the postmen recognised the reference in the card and sure enough, it was delivered to the right Sean. So, take that postcodes, we don't even need surnames in Ireland.

Chris_533976

Postcodes arent needed at all here as An Post has a perfectly functional system for directing mail. (Dublin 10 etc we wont count).

Mail is directed via the first four letters of the town name and the first letter of the county.

eg:

Clarinbridge, Co Galway

CLARG

If this clashes with another name, such as Claregalway, Co Galway, (also CLARG) you have a manual video-coded selection of the destination.

Frequent similar matches such as Bally and Kil are dealt with as one letter.

Ballymore, Co Cork

would be BALLYMORC, with the Bally treated as one letter.

It sounds convoluted but it works quite well. Postcodes would just be an unnecessary changeover. This works fine.

Bass Cadet

Chris_533976 wrote: »

Postcodes arent needed at all here as An Post has a perfectly functional system for directing mail. (Dublin 10 etc we wont count).

Mail is directed via the first four letters of the town name and the first letter of the county.

eg:

Clarinbridge, Co Galway

CLARG

If this clashes with another name, such as Claregalway, Co Galway, (also CLARG) you have a manual video-coded selection of the destination.

Frequent similar matches such as Bally and Kil are dealt with as one letter.

Ballymore, Co Cork

would be BALLYMORC, with the Bally treated as one letter.

It sounds convoluted but it works quite well. Postcodes would just be an unnecessary changeover. This works fine.

That might aswell be an argument for telegrams over email. Telography 'works' fine but is 60+ years behind email. If we took that approach to everything we'd still be sending telegrams instead of emails. Bottom-line is, sooner or later, postcodes will have to be introduced, it's inevitable, why not do it now?

As mentioned in the rest of the thread there are numerous reasons why they should be introduced, efficiency of the postal service is only one of many

Mrs OBumble

Amazotheamazing wrote: »

There's been postmen in my family for five generations now and I'll resist to the death postcodes (or not, I'm fairly passive).

Best you stop using the computer then. The internet and email has dramatically changed the face of postal services. Full postal de-regulation is happening here by 2011. Unless we all go back to pen-and-paper-only, your family's proud tradition is gonna be worthless ...

Amazotheamazing wrote: »

People in Ireland know each other, postcodes aren't really that necessary.

You are aware that 10% of the people living in Ireland today weren't born here?

Living in an inner-city apartment, I can categorically state that I don't know any of my neighbours, and they don't know me.

garydubh

Bass Cadet wrote: »

When the f@ck are we gonna move into the 20th century (sic) and get POST CODES?? Trying to apply to an American college for a masters and without a postsode, its a nightmare!! :mad:

Rant over

There is now a working new form of Post Coding system in Ireland - PON Codes - www.irishpostcodes.ie - fully explained here: http://www.irishpostcodes.ie/findoutmore.php
and here: http://www.gpsireland.ie/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=47&Itemid=79&limit=1&limitstart=1

garydubh

Satnav's now have near 100% road detail for Ireland - Garmin systems have detail better than that visible on Google Earth for Ireland.

One problem is that of spelling and finding non unique addresses in Ireland on web maps and SatNav's. To help solve this problem - PON Codes - a new form of Post Codes are now available for Ireland at www.irishpostcodes.ie and available for testing on Garmin Nuvi 700 series Satnav's - see here: http://www.irishpostcodes.ie/useponconsatnav.php

Bass Cadet

garydubh wrote: »

There is now a working new form of Post Coding system in Ireland - PON Codes - www.irishpostcodes.ie - fully explained here: http://www.irishpostcodes.ie/findoutmore.php
and here: http://www.gpsireland.ie/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=47&Itemid=79&limit=1&limitstart=1

So are An Post trying to keep them secret or something? Sat Nav companies have had to make up their own because the government are too feckin slow to sort it out themselves which will make it even more confusing when they actually introduce them. Disaster in the making as usual

garydubh

Bass Cadet wrote: »

So are An Post trying to keep them secret or something? Sat Nav companies have had to make up their own because the government are too feckin slow to sort it out themselves which will make it even more confusing when they actually introduce them. Disaster in the making as usual

No Disaster - the Government - Not An Post - will make a decison shortly - http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2008/0909/1220629653090.html

and the consultants' requirements to have a unique Post Code for every property - PON Codes are the only working solution capable of achieving/delivering this: http://www.irishpostcodes.ie/findoutmore.php

garydubh

The latest update on Post Codes for Ireland is here:
http://www.directionsmag.com/article.php?article_id=2897

Sponge Bob

More or less all of Galway County is K with Connemara J

Newcastle/Uni/ShantallaCladdagh/Lower Salthill is KP7
Menlo/Tirellan KP8
Knocnacarra/Rahoon/ KQ7
Mervue Renmore Doughiska Industrial Estates KN7
Ballindooley / Castlegar/ Leaders/ Parkmore KN8
Bushypark/Dangan/Oranswell KQ8
City Centre/Headford Road KP7
Upper Salthill KP6
Gentian Hill KQ6

Oranmore KK7
Moycullen KR9
Barna KR6
Claregalway KM9
Tuam KJH

Just use it and the postman will learn fairly quick

lukeeman

SIMPLY TYPE IN = NONE ,

garydubh

lukeeman wrote: »

SIMPLY TYPE IN = NONE ,

Rubbish in - Rubbish Out &
NONE IN - NOTHING OUT!!!!

Take a few minutes at www.irishpostcodes.ie and have something that means something to use from then on!!!

Bass Cadet

lukeeman wrote: »

SIMPLY TYPE IN = NONE ,

NOPE...Doesn't work for alot of sites and the bottom line is you shouldn't have to type that in

garydubh

Bass Cadet wrote: »

NOPE...Doesn't work for alot of sites and the bottom line is you shouldn't have to type that in

Wish you didn't have to put credit card details in also but you do !

Caliden

lukeeman wrote: »

SIMPLY TYPE IN = NONE ,

THIS SIMPLY = THREAD

garydubh

So there you go - as I projected - a National Post Code system was supposed to be introduced by Jan 2008. I have spent the last few hours searching through the budget estimates for 2009 as announced today and there is no apparant allocation for a National Post Code system in 2009 either. In fact, the Dept Of Comms budget in 2009 will be down by 13% - so definitely no obvious provision for the capital cost of a National System or for the compensatory costs suggested for An Post.
Outline capital estimates for 2010, also published today, show no obvious allocations either. In fact, as far as I can see, the last official (Government or Departmental) mention of a National Post Code system was in the Green Party statement on the programme for Government last December (2007). Looks like proposals for a National Post Code system have been well and truly shelved for now!

Just as well PON codes are in place - they do not require millions of capital expenditure to establish and they are ready to use..... www.irishpostcodes.ie and - at no cost to the state!

Bass Cadet

garydubh wrote: »

Wish you didn't have to put credit card details in also but you do !

thats just plain silly. We've outlined in the thread the numerous amounts of other valid reasons why postcodes are essential, not just what ye have to enter into a post code box when ordering online

FAO garydubh, It'll be hilarious when the idiots in dublin finally get around to bringing the country's postal system into the 20th century (sic). You just know they'll bring out a system completely at odds with the ones that the sat nav companies have already had to bring out and it'll be a complete disaster!

In fact, I could give you numerous examples at my own workplace here of why we can't use the post code system that GPS ireland have designed...one of which is that the county councils around the country don't recognise them

garydubh

Bass Cadet wrote: »

In fact, I could give you numerous examples at my own workplace here of why we can't use the post code system that GPS ireland have designed...one of which is that the county councils around the country don't recognise them

GPS Ireland deals with Local Authorities re GPS/GIS etc - they have all the capability to use PON codes - they use Garmin SatNavs and have GIS and already use the coordinates on which PON Codes are built. PON Codes are just a few short steps away for them - a few lines of code as a MapInfo tool.

County Councils will have no problem using PON Codes and infact many have already got GPS Ireland's Hangle Software (http://www.irishpostcodes.ie/downloads.php) which coverts GRID to PON Codes and GPS Ireland has had discussions with many who want to make their services more visible and want to publish locations/PON Codes etc on web services.

They will be there with PON Codes shortly! Nothing to stop anyone using them really!

Mrs OBumble

Bass Cadet wrote: »

It'll be hilarious when the idiots in dublin finally get around to bringing the country's postal system into the 20th century (sic).

Harsh, very harsh.

I predict that they'll reach at least the common standard from the beginning of the last decade of the 20th century before we're 10% through the 21st century.

Bass Cadet

garydubh wrote: »

County Councils will have no problem using PON Codes and infact many have already got GPS Ireland's Hangle Software

I'll assume you've never had to do work for a county council office around the country? Be my guest and try to get the county councils to use them, because from my experience working with them they don't and won't...Just because the have the capability to use them, doesn't mean they will. The only way they will ever use them is if the government actually invest in the project and even then they have to incorporate it into the postal system and ye just know that's not gonna happen

garydubh

Bass Cadet wrote: »

I'll assume you've never had to do work for a county council office around the country? Be my guest and try to get the county councils to use them, because from my experience working with them they don't and won't...Just because the have the capability to use them, doesn't mean they will. The only way they will ever use them is if the government actually invest in the project and even then they have to incorporate it into the postal system and ye just know that's not gonna happen

You must be dealing with different set of Local Authorities to me - a member of a local authority got to my office today using a PON Code!!!

Bass Cadet

garydubh wrote: »

You must be dealing with different set of Local Authorities to me - a member of a local authority got to my office today using a PON Code!!!

Do you work with county councils aswell? What a coincidence. We work with over 26 county and city councils. For our line of work NONE of them use PON codes for actual council work

garydubh

Bass Cadet wrote: »

Do you work with county councils aswell? What a coincidence. We work with over 26 county and city councils. For our line of work NONE of them use PON codes for actual council work

All of them are already using IG, ITM,Lat/long, CAD and MapInfo, GPS etc - using PON Codes is a simple step from there!