Player registration/licensing

Tigger

I think tyhat player registration or some form of licensing while not ideal would help to stamp out non player/collector owners of airsoft equipment

not the equipment itself but the player

i know there is something in operation in the uk but i don't know how it worked out for them

if someone is contributing ton ths thread could they please stay away from comments like stupid obvious ego politics and all that

weeder

vcra bill has almost killed airsoft in the UK from what ive heard

Tigger

weeder wrote: »

vcra bill has almost killed airsoft in the UK from what ive heard

has it ?
how
what was wrong with it, was there anything worthwhile in it at all?

UKARA has set up an Independent Data Base which will be used to list eligible purchasers and allow UKARA retailer members to check sale recipients are bona fidi.

Who are the eligible purchasers ?

The only groups of persons now allowed to purchase RiF's are Film,TV, Museums, Theatres, Crown Servants, and persons engaged in Re-enactement activities, and airsoft skirmishing. All these purchasers must be over 18 years of age.

What must Re-enactment people and Airsoft players do to show the are bona fidi ?

Both these groups must show that their activities are covered by third party liability insurance and that they are over 18, in the case of Airsoft Players they must also show that they are regular players at an accredited game site. Which means they must be a member of a game site with the appropriate Airsoft Insurance cover.

How do players become members of an approved game site and eligible to buy RiF's ?

The games site has to record you as a member and preferable issue you with a membership card.
To qualify as an “airsoft skirmisher” you must be a regular player at that game site having attended not less than 3 time in not less than 2 months.

is this not what we are saying should happen anyway?

fair enuff bulletts and his ilk would need some sort of collectors lisence but since he's approved for real steal i doubt they'd stop him

gandalf

I honestly don't think its an option. If any changes are made I believe it will be to ban airsoft in totality . The gardai don't have the resources to manage this and given the current fiscal atmosphere the Department of Justice certainly won't make funding available for this.

If licensing was brought in more than likely they would require you to have a license per AEG or GBB rather than register the user. I believe real firearms certificates have increased in cost dramatically so it would make collecting airsoft a very expensive pastime (I am sure one of the real steel people can confirm this).

As has been stated before the best bet is to self regulate via the IAA and I personally would like more noise from them regarding this. As mentioned in the previous thread maybe a leaflet on Airsoft Do's and Don'ts with a IAA membership form on the back to be included with every AEG & GBB shipped from IAA affiliated retailers?

Puding

Yes - i would rather we start regulation yourselves and stop another vcra hear, i would rather we do something and it be your own terms than it be forced upon us, and the people focusing it upon us will not care about airsoft so it will be detrimental

Any regulation will not be popular but i see it as need to help the sport survive into the future, weather its needing iaa member ship to show your registered and your age, to having to be a member of a club to prove the same details i have no problem.

Regulation will come, and they are looking at the uk as a way to go, we either do it first or wait for it to happen,

It will mean problems and people will not like it but that not the point it about making shore airsoft survives into the future.

vcra bill has almost killed airsoft in the UK from what ive heard

always what people have heard i played airsoft in the uk for a number of years before moving over here, i still know a lot of people that play in Essex where i lived, the vcra has made life for shops hard, but in other way it’s made it easier, things take longer but people are buying from the uk more as things are faster and less problems with customs. sites are doing well there is still a massive amount of sites running each week, just look at the events in the uk and northern ireland? does it look dead, harder but not dead

Tigger

these northern guys on asi seem fine
http://www.airsoftireland.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=8769&st=220&start=220

Tigger

gandalf wrote: »

I honestly don't think its an option. If any changes are made I believe it will be to ban airsoft in totality . The gardai don't have the resources to manage this and given the current fiscal atmosphere the Department of Justice certainly won't make funding available for this.

yes but aside from that i'm woondering if it would be a good idea in princaple

As has been stated before the best bet is to self regulate via the IAA and I personally would like more noise from them regarding this. As mentioned in the previous thread maybe a leaflet on Airsoft Do's and Don'ts with a IAA membership form on the back to be included with every AEG & GBB shipped from IAA affiliated retailers?

i agreed and have exchanged emails with a connor scholard in regards to this
you can reach him at info@irishairsoft.ie

Lemming

Personally I think registration a-la-VCRA-style is a bad idea. Not least because the VCRA itself is (by and large) political-showboat legislation that gave scant thought to the practical implementation of what it demanded. Hell, so little thought was given that we are being affected by the legislation and we're in another country that it has no bearing on due to the confusion surrounding its implementation (re. customs at international postal hubs in the UK).

Gandalf has also touched on something that I think would come to pass. Any legislative effort by the powers that be would be lazy and half-arsed (we're not that important a sub-group to warrant careful and indepth examination) and would probably result in the square peg, round hole scenario with RS licensing being applied to airsoft.

Hivemind187

Can't license airsoft kit, no unique serial numbers preent before import (CA are not unique - its a marketting half truth).

Can't license players because you have a VCRA system without the infrastructure to support regular skirmishing for those in outlying rural areas.

Shouldnt have to restrict their ownership and operation to any responsible adult because they simply pose no physical harm.

The answer is providing a system of self regulation based on greed. Essentially, that their should be perks for those who are willing to play by the rules and a harsher existance for those who dont. It doesnt necessarily have to be by the IAA rules, just that they can be held accountable and that their behavior should dictate whether they maintain their priviledges.

Oh, and Gandalf? I mentioned yesterday about the pamphlet of Do's & Dont's made available to the affiliated retailers ince the second quarter of this year.

gandalf

Hivemind187 wrote: »

Oh, and Gandalf? I mentioned yesterday about the pamphlet of Do's & Dont's made available to the affiliated retailers ince the second quarter of this year.

Sorry man missed that in the War and Peacelike other thread

OzCam

Hivemind187 wrote: »

The answer is providing a system of self regulation based on greed.

This has been discussed ad nauseam. We need to stop talking about it and start doing it.

kevteljeur

I'm in favour of licence per owner, per retailer and per site, with legislation holding up the links in between (To own, to buy and to use). That's partly a forestalling of the Armageddon scenario of total banning, and partly because it would be good for the sport even without that possibility. I don't think, as others here have said also, that you can count on everyone for common sense. It needs to be drilled into some people by law.

I don't think the total ban will happen, but it does need regulation. We are collectively a little too paranoid sometimes and hold our sport as being a lot more important than it really is, in the Greater Scheme of Things.


Edit: Sorry, that didn't really add anything to the discussion. Just agreeing. But I think that self-regulation in airsoft really means education and encouragement, because I think the deal-breaking incident that we all fear will not be from an Airsoft player, but from someone with malevolent intentions.


If I can help with the educational flier, give me a shout. It's a great idea. Sites and retailers need to be onboard, and (with all due respect to the IAA) it needs to appear as impartial as possible. It will go a long way towards allying fears and educating.

bullets

NO WAY. I am absolutely against any form of Licences or registration for
airsoft.

As somebody that owns real firearms as well as airsoft the Level
of sheer crap that goes on in the licensing system its a total Joke here in Ireland.
The system is fecked for real guns I dunno how it could be better for Toy/Imitation Guns.

Eg: I have to pay a License fee for EACH and every Real Firearm I own.
NONE of that License Fee goes towards the sport of Shooting in any way.
I need to renew the licence each year. My Firearms officer, I have been trying to
contact since the end of July to get my new licences issued. I've rang lots of times,
sent letters, called in....its Nearly September now and I am still waiting at home
with my now unlicenced firearms. I tell this to the Gardai at my local station they
dont even bat an eye lid!!!!!! The system is a farse and its in the Dark ages.
My FO is a nice guy but he has to do his own job as well as the ****e paperwork
when he gets free time which is outside the hours of 9-17:30

Add if there was some licensing introduced, they would more than likely want you
to be a Club members, they may want you to keep AEGs/GBB is gunsafes
which is an issue if you have as many as me....then they may want to inspect your
house for security and ask for an alarm to be fitted etc etc etc. it will be almost
needing the person and where they live needing to pass a Test before issueing permission
to own an Airsoft Device. The Decision making process would be down to the Local Super
so depending on where you live you might have someone who may or may not dislike guns
and start making it difficult for a person to obtain a licence.

I may sound paranoid or if I am exaggerating but people that have real firearms here in
Ireland face all sorts of those issues currently here in Ireland. I would not wish it
on any airsofter.

The entire appeal of airsoft for me as a gun lover was I was able to buy Gun Like Objects
without ANY hassle or paperwork or licences or have ANY dealings with the Law
or anyone else. I could buy them to collect them.

~B

weeder

and in reality i cant see airsoft being outright banned with the amount of legally held AEG's by responsible people.

how do we decide who should and who shouldnt be allowed to license an airsoft gun

Hivemind187

OzCam wrote: »

This has been discussed ad nauseam. We need to stop talking about it and start doing it.

We are. It's called the IAA. Trouble is that we can ONLY regulate those who agree to be regulated at the moment.

Discussing this stuff with the DoJ and trying to find an amicable solution to the issue is the only way we are going to be able to continue the way we have been.

Unfortunately, there are a huge number of ass-clowns and idiots out there who seem hell bent on destroying it for everyone else. Unscrupulous retailers, un-accountable venues, illegal skirmishing, idiots with pistols in their pockets on the streets, tards shooting birds and cats, gob****es points their rifles at policemen. How, exactly, do you propose to eliminate these idiots?

Pogroms are not a viable option.

Hivemind187

Tigger wrote: »

yes but aside from that i'm woondering if it would be a good idea in princaple


i agreed and have exchanged emails with a connor scholard in regards to this
you can reach him at info@irishairsoft.ie

Again, this was provided since the second quarter of 2008.

extremetaz

kevteljeur wrote: »

If I can help with the educational flier, give me a shout. It's a great idea. Sites and retailers need to be onboard, and (with all due respect to the IAA) it needs to appear as impartial as possible. It will go a long way towards allying fears and educating.

"...sites and retailers need to be onboard ... needs to appear as impartial as possible..."

:rolleyes:

kevteljeur

extremetaz wrote: »

"...sites and retailers need to be onboard ... needs to appear as impartial as possible..."

:rolleyes:

I'm all on for the IAA and throwing my weight behind it too, in case it seemed that I'm not inclined that way. I'm referring to some of the retailers who would persecute this idea because it had the IAA's name on it, which I think would reflect their ignorance of the situation. But that's life. For this to work, we would still need those retailers onboard by hook or by crook.

Again, the problem and the solution are self-regulation (in my opinion, of course).

Hivemind187

No more comment from the IAA committee on this particular topic will be made. We can be contacted and are willing to discuss it on our own forums at www.irishairsoft.ie

Please direct all questions, suggestions and commentary to those forums wherein they relate to the IAA.

The IAA does not conduct its business through the boards.ie website by agreement with (and favor to) the mods of this forum.

MacAonghusa

I'm all for it if it's done right:
- player registration not gun registration
- once off reasonably priced fee
- not necessary to be part of club/site (to facilitate collectors)
etc

Puding

all well and good saying this does not work that doesnot work, nothing is goinf to be perfect, problem is i can see it being applyed with or without us

extremetaz

kevteljeur wrote: »

I'm all on for the IAA and throwing my weight behind it too, in case it seemed that I'm not inclined that way. I'm referring to some of the retailers who would persecute this idea because it had the IAA's name on it, which I think would reflect their ignorance of the situation. But that's life. For this to work, we would still need those retailers onboard by hook or by crook.

Again, the problem and the solution are self-regulation (in my opinion, of course).

That's not what I was getting at, and I'm not posting on account of the IAA reference (or as an IAA committee member) - the point I was making was how do you intend to educate "impartially" when you are:
A) a member of the airsofting community.
requesting the support of every major vested interest within the community.


The bottom line is that the duty of education and the role of ambasador for the sport is endowed upon everyone (like it or not and awknowledge it or not) whos actions reflect upon the airsofting community - this includes sites, retailers and owners (skirmishers, collectors or otherwise).

Tigger

Hivemind187 wrote: »

Again, this was provided since the second quarter of 2008.

no it wasn't the retailers don't put this in the boxes
i'm not saying that you have to make them do it but they don't do it
this is a fact

also as per my emails i think it should be spelt out that airsoft is for sites only on the iaa webby

it should be spelt out on the iaa website that: airsoft is onlt for playing on sites

kevteljeur

extremetaz wrote: »

That's not what I was getting at, and I'm not posting on account of the IAA reference (or as an IAA committee member) - the point I was making was how do you intend to educate "impartially" when you are:
A) a member of the airsofting community.
requesting the support of every major vested interest within the community.


The bottom line is that the duty of education and the role of ambasador for the sport is endowed upon everyone (like it or not and awknowledge it or not) whos actions reflect upon the airsofting community - this includes sites, retailers and owners (skirmishers, collectors or otherwise).

Sorry extremetaz, I took you up wrong there, my apologies. I meant impartiality in terms of trying to avoid the internal politics; in principle I agree with what you are saying, we're all ambassadors for our hobby or sport, sometimes also internally. To self-regulate we all need to be onside, and some pride may need to be swallowed. </end kev's sermon>

Hivemind187

Tigger wrote: »

no it wasn't the retailers don't put this in the boxes
i'm not saying that you have to make them do it but they don't do it
this is a fact

also as per my emails i think it should be spelt out that airsoft is for sites only on the iaa webby

Yes. It was provided.

And as has been posted already - take it to the IAA forum.

kevteljeur

Lads, let's take a minute to cool down and get back on topic? It's an interesting subject and with strong feelings attached to it.

Shiva

Tigger wrote: »

also as per my emails i think it should be spelt out that airsoft is for sites only on the iaa webby

Sorry, but that's rubbish.

I support the IAA entirely, and in an ideal world all the retailers and sites would be affiliates, but the IAA don't get to say who can play or where they can play.

A site doesn't have to be IAA affiliated in order to be well-run, safe and compliant with relevant legislation.

Tigger

Shiva wrote: »

Sorry, but that's rubbish.

I support the IAA entirely, and in an ideal world all the retailers and sites would be affiliates, but the IAA don't get to say who can play or where they can play.

A site doesn't have to be IAA affiliated in order to be well-run, safe and compliant with relevant legislation.

sorry shiva the old dyslexia mkes it hard for me to communicate well in text

i wrote

also as per my emails i think it should be spelt out that airsoft is for sites only on the iaa webby

should read / mean


it should be spelt out on the iaa website that: airsoft is onlt for playing on sites

of course non iaa is still grand as long as its an acual site (definationto be decided by those smarter and less lazy than me)

Shiva

Tigger wrote: »

it should be spelt out on the iaa website that: airsoft is onlt for playing on sites

of course non iaa is still grand as long as its an acual site (definationto be decided by those smarter and less lazy than me)

Ahh...gotcha. Sorry.

I agree completely.

Tigger

Hivemind187 wrote: »

Yes. It was provided.

And as has been posted already - take it to the IAA forum.

i don't think that the iaa is failing here why are you using bold at me I'm only making what i regard as helpful suggestions

i don't want to go to the iaa forums because this is not an iaa issue this is a friendly debate on the pros and cons of registration and licensing

Tigger

Shiva wrote: »

Ahh...gotcha. Sorry.

I agree completely.

i'm now gonna edit my first post for clarity

Tigger

extremetaz wrote: »

The bottom line is that the duty of education and the role of ambasador for the sport is endowed upon everyone

i agree thats what i mean by the airsoft community those of us that support airsoft

i don't give a damn obout vested interests if shiva (for example) became the first irish airsoft millionaire i'd still listen to his opinion because he'd have more at stake than me

the more vested the better i rekon