12K to invest

iconoclast

Hi all, it'd be great if I could pick your brains on this.

By next month I'll have 12,000 saved which I'll be looking to invest and I'm a complete novice at this. I realise how difficult it is to give adivce without much info so I'll try be as clear as possible about my situation.

So,
Length of time: I can leave this untouched for around 5 years. (I won't technically need it but I'd hope to be getting on the property ladder by then so I'd ideally be using this (and any profits ) towards that.)

Risk: Since I don't really need it, I'd be willing to take a bit of a risk. I suppose I could stand to loose up to 50% of it. But I'd also love to hear about lower-risk options in case I'm less ballsey when the time comes.

Expected return: This is a bit more difficult for me because as I said I'm complete novice so I'm not really sure what to expect. But I guess since the deposit accounts yield about 5-6% I'd hope for a good bit more than this. I suppose I'd be hoping for more than 10%-15% per year, but obviously the more the better.;)

Many thanks in advance. Any advice you could give would be great.

Lottery tickets.

Lots of them.

iconoclast

Why so? I don't get it. My expectations of return too high?

Elmo

I was talking to someone who said Apple are a good company to invest in. (Not forest gump let me pre-empt that joke now). You need to buy low and they then tend to go up. (Apple shares)

But I am also a novice at this and would also be interested in investing some money.

Anyone??

I signed up for AIB online share dealing account but haven't used it yet.

pocketdooz

iconoclast wrote: »

Hi all, it'd be great if I could pick your brains on this.

By next month I'll have 12,000 saved which I'll be looking to invest and I'm a complete novice at this. I realise how difficult it is to give adivce without much info so I'll try be as clear as possible about my situation.

So,
Length of time: I can leave this untouched for around 5 years. (I won't technically need it but I'd hope to be getting on the property ladder by then so I'd ideally be using this (and any profits ) towards that.)

Risk: Since I don't really need it, I'd be willing to take a bit of a risk. I suppose I could stand to loose up to 50% of it. But I'd also love to hear about lower-risk options in case I'm less ballsey when the time comes.

Expected return: This is a bit more difficult for me because as I said I'm complete novice so I'm not really sure what to expect. But I guess since the deposit accounts yield about 5-6% I'd hope for a good bit more than this. I suppose I'd be hoping for more than 10%-15% per year, but obviously the more the better.;)

Many thanks in advance. Any advice you could give would be great.

First of all well done on saving that amount.

Secondly - do you have an debt ? Any at all ? If so - pay it off. No sure investment will pay you a return after tax that will beat what you are getting charged on a loan (incl. student loans / credit cards etc.)

Thirdly - I think you have enough to diversify between maybe 4/5 assets. Personally if I had that money I'd be lumping the max into Anglo's 8% account for the next 3 months (which I am) - and the the min. for the rest of the year to get the rate - This will give you €3,000 at 8% in a secure account - resulting in (if rates stay same) €4,400 in 5 years. http://www.angloirishbank.ie/Personal_Savings/Regular_Annual_Saver_Account/

What is your opinion on the Irish market ? - if you think it will recover by 2013 (which I do) you could buy an ISEQ ETF, which is basically buying into the Irish Stock Market as a whole. Your buying the index for 5 years. You could invest another €3,000 in there. If this offers HALF it's average return of 16.56% over the past 20 years it'll be giving you 8.28% (and I think more) giving you €4,465 in 5 years with possibly some additional upside if the banks recover nicely in 2011 - 2012.

http://dublinstockexchange.com/discussion/discussion/11/historical-iseq-returns-2007-prediction/


International diversification should be available through many of the fund companies (Zurich, formerly Eagle Star and Hibernian maybe - I'm not too knowledgable about this area) - they should offer some leveraged funds that invest in the Middle East and Asia. You could buy into these funds, possibly invest another €3,000 there - I think these funds have been returning c. 11% over the past years (again past performance is not a guarantee of future success). The economies of Brazil, Russia, China and India are booming, with Russia and Brazil being natural resource-based and China and India being manufacturing and service based. You have to do a bit of your own research on where you think will offer the return but an 11% return should be available if you choose wisely. Obviously the volatility and risk associated with these economies would be slightly higher than developed economies (although not recently !!) so you accept slightly higher risk for potential higher returns. An 11% return would give you €5,055 in 5 years.

For your final €3,000 you could make the riskiest investment of all and put it into 1 or 2 stocks that you feel offer growth potential over the next few years. For this you would have to get either profesional advice or do your own research. If you PM me I can let you know what I think would be worth looking at or you could do your own research. You need not limit yourself to the Irish market for this. Obviously this option would involve higher risk but you could put a stop loss of 10 - 15 % on this investment to limit your downside in the event you are wrong in your decision. If you pick a stock that performs well for you it is not unreasonable to assume a 12/13% return averaged per annum over the next 5 years. This would give you €5,527 in 5 years.

Again - these are just examples of what you could do - there are many potential homes for your money but I think you should spread it between risky and secure investments and do some international diversification. These returns are arbitrary and may not be returns that people will all agree with but they are not unreasonable to assume and could even be on the low side depending on how things go.

Your overall portfolio would be c. €20,000 then in 5 years.

Best of luck with it.






.

woodseb

Elmo wrote: »

I was talking to someone who said Apple are a good company to invest in. (Not forest gump let me pre-empt that joke now). You need to buy low and they then tend to go up. (Apple shares)
.

i don't think advice like this actually helps anyone:rolleyes:

follow what pocketdooz said - diversify your portfolio and given your time period you should do well, all being well with the market

iconoclast

pocketdooz wrote: »

First of all well done on saving that amount.

Secondly - do you have an debt ? Any at all ? If so - pay it off. No sure investment will pay you a return after tax that will beat what you are getting charged on a loan (incl. student loans / credit cards etc.)

Thirdly - I think you have enough to diversify between maybe 4/5 assets. Personally if I had that money I'd be lumping the max into Anglo's 8% account for the next 3 months (which I am) - and the the min. for the rest of the year to get the rate - This will give you €3,000 at 8% in a secure account - resulting in (if rates stay same) €4,400 in 5 years. http://www.angloirishbank.ie/Personal_Savings/Regular_Annual_Saver_Account/

What is your opinion on the Irish market ? - if you think it will recover by 2013 (which I do) you could buy an ISEQ ETF, which is basically buying into the Irish Stock Market as a whole. Your buying the index for 5 years. You could invest another €3,000 in there. If this offers HALF it's average return of 16.56% over the past 20 years it'll be giving you 8.28% (and I think more) giving you €4,465 in 5 years with possibly some additional upside if the banks recover nicely in 2011 - 2012.

http://dublinstockexchange.com/discussion/discussion/11/historical-iseq-returns-2007-prediction/


International diversification should be available through many of the fund companies (Zurich, formerly Eagle Star and Hibernian maybe - I'm not too knowledgable about this area) - they should offer some leveraged funds that invest in the Middle East and Asia. You could buy into these funds, possibly invest another €3,000 there - I think these funds have been returning c. 11% over the past years (again past performance is not a guarantee of future success). The economies of Brazil, Russia, China and India are booming, with Russia and Brazil being natural resource-based and China and India being manufacturing and service based. You have to do a bit of your own research on where you think will offer the return but an 11% return should be available if you choose wisely. Obviously the volatility and risk associated with these economies would be slightly higher than developed economies (although not recently !!) so you accept slightly higher risk for potential higher returns. An 11% return would give you €5,055 in 5 years.

For your final €3,000 you could make the riskiest investment of all and put it into 1 or 2 stocks that you feel offer growth potential over the next few years. For this you would have to get either profesional advice or do your own research. If you PM me I can let you know what I think would be worth looking at or you could do your own research. You need not limit yourself to the Irish market for this. Obviously this option would involve higher risk but you could put a stop loss of 10 - 15 % on this investment to limit your downside in the event you are wrong in your decision. If you pick a stock that performs well for you it is not unreasonable to assume a 12/13% return averaged per annum over the next 5 years. This would give you €5,527 in 5 years.

Again - these are just examples of what you could do - there are many potential homes for your money but I think you should spread it between risky and secure investments and do some international diversification. These returns are arbitrary and may not be returns that people will all agree with but they are not unreasonable to assume and could even be on the low side depending on how things go.

Your overall portfolio would be c. €20,000 then in 5 years.

Best of luck with it.






.

Wow, thanks a million Pocktdooz. I really appreciate your reply. Seems like great advice...exactly the kinda security/risk mix I was looking for. Luckily I'm debt free so I've got the whole 12k play around with. I'll definately PM you later about the 4th option. I wouldn't even know where to start my own research.

Thanks again

Elmo

i don't think advice like this actually helps anyone

True but I wanted to know more so I was trying to get the thread going again.

Idu

pocketdooz wrote: »

First of all well done on saving that amount.

Secondly - do you have an debt ? Any at all ? If so - pay it off. No sure investment will pay you a return after tax that will beat what you are getting charged on a loan (incl. student loans / credit cards etc.)

Thirdly - I think you have enough to diversify between maybe 4/5 assets. Personally if I had that money I'd be lumping the max into Anglo's 8% account for the next 3 months (which I am) - and the the min. for the rest of the year to get the rate - This will give you €3,000 at 8% in a secure account - resulting in (if rates stay same) €4,400 in 5 years. http://www.angloirishbank.ie/Personal_Savings/Regular_Annual_Saver_Account/

What is your opinion on the Irish market ? - if you think it will recover by 2013 (which I do) you could buy an ISEQ ETF, which is basically buying into the Irish Stock Market as a whole. Your buying the index for 5 years. You could invest another €3,000 in there. If this offers HALF it's average return of 16.56% over the past 20 years it'll be giving you 8.28% (and I think more) giving you €4,465 in 5 years with possibly some additional upside if the banks recover nicely in 2011 - 2012.

http://dublinstockexchange.com/discussion/discussion/11/historical-iseq-returns-2007-prediction/


International diversification should be available through many of the fund companies (Zurich, formerly Eagle Star and Hibernian maybe - I'm not too knowledgable about this area) - they should offer some leveraged funds that invest in the Middle East and Asia. You could buy into these funds, possibly invest another €3,000 there - I think these funds have been returning c. 11% over the past years (again past performance is not a guarantee of future success). The economies of Brazil, Russia, China and India are booming, with Russia and Brazil being natural resource-based and China and India being manufacturing and service based. You have to do a bit of your own research on where you think will offer the return but an 11% return should be available if you choose wisely. Obviously the volatility and risk associated with these economies would be slightly higher than developed economies (although not recently !!) so you accept slightly higher risk for potential higher returns. An 11% return would give you €5,055 in 5 years.

For your final €3,000 you could make the riskiest investment of all and put it into 1 or 2 stocks that you feel offer growth potential over the next few years. For this you would have to get either profesional advice or do your own research. If you PM me I can let you know what I think would be worth looking at or you could do your own research. You need not limit yourself to the Irish market for this. Obviously this option would involve higher risk but you could put a stop loss of 10 - 15 % on this investment to limit your downside in the event you are wrong in your decision. If you pick a stock that performs well for you it is not unreasonable to assume a 12/13% return averaged per annum over the next 5 years. This would give you €5,527 in 5 years.

Again - these are just examples of what you could do - there are many potential homes for your money but I think you should spread it between risky and secure investments and do some international diversification. These returns are arbitrary and may not be returns that people will all agree with but they are not unreasonable to assume and could even be on the low side depending on how things go.

Your overall portfolio would be c. €20,000 then in 5 years.

Best of luck with it.






.

Great post as usual. You will do well to find better advice than that anywhere.

Asfor researching potential stocks a good way to start is just to read the papers and pick up little bits of imformation from that and from other sources around you. A lot of good stock picks can be found from simple basics and fundamentals that are easy to find all around you.

An example of this was a friend of mine was in New York when the i-phone was launched and when he saw the lines of people outside each apple store and that each store sold out fairly rapidly he decided to buy apple shares and hold then until they announced their next quarterly earnings report. As expected the report showed a growth in sales and a growth in expected revenue and he banked himself a tidy profit on the back of something that was easy to see.

While this isn't what I'd recommend for everyone(this guy is an experienced trader with money available to him) it does highlight that sometimes even the most basic of indicators can lead you towards a profitable stock opportunity

rugbyman

janets on clubs. a few days ago you commented on my noting a 16 per cent fall in fyffes in an hour. am abroad now and just got into a web cafe. have just noted fyffes down 30 pper cent today. whats happening?

Idu

http://www.rte.ie/business/2008/0829/fyffes.html

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/finance/2008/0830/1220023437542.html

Pretty straight forward stuff. When investing in a company you should be aware when their earnings reports are due, usually once every quarter. Any news thats well out of line with analysts expectations can lead to sharp moves in the companies share price.

Fyffes seem to have missed their profit targets and have set a negative outlook for the rest of the year. Big no-no's to potential investors and a sign to get out to those with shares already as witnessed by the sharp decline