Suckler Cow Grant

Tableman

How have people been getting on with this? Looking at inroducing meal to the weanlings now which could be troblesome as dont have a suitable feeder. Will need to bring them into the shed to do it

Just wondering how others have found the measures imposed in it? any hassle with anything? When do we get payment for it?

reilig

Tableman wrote: »

How have people been getting on with this? Looking at inroducing meal to the weanlings now which could be troblesome as dont have a suitable feeder. Will need to bring them into the shed to do it

Just wondering how others have found the measures imposed in it? any hassle with anything? When do we get payment for it?

I'm getting on good with it. I have my April and May calves on meal since early July. I have creep fed calves for almost 10 years now, and I have found that the cost of meal put into them more than comes back when I sell them as weinlings in October. I made the creep feeder myself by copying one which a neighbour bought at the time for £600. It cost me at most £200.

I also have a creep gate which I can move from field to field and allow calves to eat ahead of the cows if my land parcels allow for it. I sometimes put a trough inside the gate and feed them there - it allows calves to get more meal - rather than the same 3 calves stuck in the creep all the time eating all the meal.

I saw on the Farmers Journal 2 weeks ago where a guy designed a creep for calves from a 40 gallon plastic barrel and put a creep electric fence around it. I'm sure if you look up the website, you will find it.

I have no other issues for the scheme at the moment. I won't be castrating my calves as I hope to be rid of them before october ends. I have just 1 problem with debudding - a calf that was supposed to be a poly has recently developed horns - will have to get the injection from the vet to freeze the head before I burn them off.

All in all, I think its money for nothing. All of the things that you have to do for the schemes are things that you should be doing anyway. It will really benefit people who buy cattle for feed lots if they are already on meal.

Finally, you get sent forward for payment as soon as you have all the required information sent to them - so if you send back your last form to them today or tick your last box if you are doing it online like me, you should technically be going forward for payment tomorrow. How long it will take for them to process the payment, I don't know.

Hope it goes well for ya. Calves quickly catch on to eating meal this time of year. Just make sure you buy nice crunch for them and that you don't feed it where the birds will take it all.

Dan

Tableman

I entered in the meal introduction dates & weaning dates last week and now it tells me that payment has been rejected for all my weanlings. I have followed the instructions of this scheme right to the letter (Meal was introduced to calves 5 weeks before they were weaned). Calves were weaned after they were 8 weeks old (Much older in fact).

What could be causing them to reject it?

bbam

We're getting on reasonably well...
Home made creep feeder...it aint gonna win any prizes but it only cost €100 . About half of thew calves using it...
Have tried creep gate made with electric fence but no takers to date .

We also dehorned for the first time this year...

My opinion is that this isn't extra "profit" but we treat it as a sub to improve our techniques....
It's a good thing so far..

reilig

bbam wrote: »

We're getting on reasonably well...
Home made creep feeder...it aint gonna win any prizes but it only cost €100 . About half of thew calves using it...
Have tried creep gate made with electric fence but no takers to date .

We also dehorned for the first time this year...

My opinion is that this isn't extra "profit" but we treat it as a sub to improve our techniques....
It's a good thing so far..

I think I see it as profit, I'm just doing all the things that I always did, except this year I'm recording it. I always dehorned and fed meal. The only thing that I never did was wean before selling, but I have a new shed this year which might make it handy enough. All in all, the suckler cow scheme gives me as much extra profit as if I was keeping 2 extra cows.

reilig

Tableman wrote: »

I entered in the meal introduction dates & weaning dates last week and now it tells me that payment has been rejected for all my weanlings. I have followed the instructions of this scheme right to the letter (Meal was introduced to calves 5 weeks before they were weaned). Calves were weaned after they were 8 weeks old (Much older in fact).

What could be causing them to reject it?

You have to have got a date wrong somewhere along the line. Go back and check all of the dates that you submitted, check to make sure that they are the required times apart and that you didn't put down a wrong month. If you are recording your SCG online, this should be easy to do.

Tableman

You have to have got a date wrong somewhere along the line. Go back and check all of the dates that you submitted, check to make sure that they are the required times apart and that you didn't put down a wrong month. If you are recording your SCG online, this should be easy to do.

Am doing it online, Have checked the dates, they look fine to me. Heres an example of one:

Date of Birth, Disbudding Date, Meal Intro Date, Weaning Date
18/03/08 01/04/08 14/07/08 15/08/08


Disbudding within 3 weeks --- Yes
Meals introduced 4 weeks before weaning --- Yes
Weaning Date --- Dont see any issue with it, Calf is 5 months old, abrupt weaning was not done (although I am suspicous about how strict they would be on farmers bigger than me with the word "abrupt"). As far as I can see, I followed the weaning guidelines exactly.

I was enjoying doing this scheme up until last week when I saw these rejections online but this has made me worry about it a lot.

reilig

Tableman wrote: »

Am doing it online, Have checked the dates, they look fine to me. Heres an example of one:

Date of Birth, Disbudding Date, Meal Intro Date, Weaning Date
18/03/08 01/04/08 14/07/08 15/08/08


Disbudding within 3 weeks --- Yes
Meals introduced 4 weeks before weaning --- Yes
Weaning Date --- Dont see any issue with it, Calf is 5 months old, abrupt weaning was not done (although I am suspicous about how strict they would be on farmers bigger than me with the word "abrupt"). As far as I can see, I followed the weaning guidelines exactly.

I was enjoying doing this scheme up until last week when I saw these rejections online but this has made me worry about it a lot.

I found this on www.agridata.ie website:

"Event 4 Meal Introduction Events
The date meal is introduced to a calf must be recorded and submitted within 7 days of the event.
Meal must be introduced at least 4 weeks before weaning, and continued for two weeks after weaning.

You have to sumbit data on your meal feedings within 7 days of you starting to feed the meal. Did you do this?

Tableman

I found this on www.agridata.ie website:

"Event 4 Meal Introduction Events
The date meal is introduced to a calf must be recorded and submitted within 7 days of the event.
Meal must be introduced at least 4 weeks before weaning, and continued for two weeks after weaning.

You have to sumbit data on your meal feedings within 7 days of you starting to feed the meal. Did you do this?

Now, this pisses me off big time because I was wondering about this. I read the terms & conditions of the scheme and it did not say anything so I rang the "helpline" number and asked is it ok if you only enter the meal introduction date a few weeks after. They told me that I would not be penalised over it.
Where does it specify that you have to do this in the terms & conditions?

reilig

Tableman wrote: »

Now, this pisses me off big time because I was wondering about this. I read the terms & conditions of the scheme and it did not say anything so I rang the "helpline" number and asked is it ok if you only enter the meal introduction date a few weeks after. They told me that I would not be penalised over it.
Where does it specify that you have to do this in the terms & conditions?

To be honest with you, I'm not great for reading terms and conditions. I did see a half page advertisement about it in the Farmers Journal about 2 months ago which prompted me to bring my recordings up to date.
My advice is to call the helpline again.

Tableman

My advice is to call the helpline again.

Damn right I will. I went through all the terms & conditions again today and there is NO mention of it at all. I worry about this as it seems like a little sneaky thing to reject you. I shouldnt have to be reading about this on a third party website (or newspaper). I'll cal them and let you know how I get on with it.

hattie-f

we have been getting on well
its a good way to improve allot of the standard over here
we also made a home made creep feeder
weaning was a bit earlier than what we would have usually done but getting on well with it now!!!

Sam Kade

reilig wrote: »

I think I see it as profit, I'm just doing all the things that I always did, except this year I'm recording it. I always dehorned and fed meal. The only thing that I never did was wean before selling, but I have a new shed this year which might make it handy enough. All in all, the suckler cow scheme gives me as much extra profit as if I was keeping 2 extra cows.

It will be the same profit as one extra cow for you next year thanks to the budget.

bbam

Must say that we're weaning for the first time in many years... Usually use the truck on sales day to wean .
We moved calves in on slats for a week..
All well (and quiet) again..
Have been able to use standard feeder which has brought last few calves onto meal..:)

Incidently we're going to have the creep feeder in the yard as cown calve down.. hopefully this will introduce the calves to the feeder in smaller confines and improve initial uptake rates..

Cheers..
bam

reilig

Sam Kade wrote: »

It will be the same profit as one extra cow for you next year thanks to the budget.

Well its better than no profit in my opinion. I will still get paid €40 per cow for doing the things that I should be doing - like feeding meal, dehorning at an early age and keeping records. Over the past few years I was doing most of these things anyway and not getting paid for them.

I was speaking to my Farm Planner last friday and he recons that so many people will drop out of the scheme at the end of this year that there will be enough money in the budget in the years to come to continue to pay the €80, or at least €60 per cow and those who drop out after year 1 will not be allowed to rejoin.

He also believes that the measures will be tied in with cross farm compliance in the coming years and every farmer will have to carry out the measures of the Suckler Cow Scheme in order to access farm payments in the future - even if they are not in the Suckler cow scheme.

Tableman

Well its better than no profit in my opinion. I will still get paid €40 per cow for doing the things that I should be doing - like feeding meal, dehorning at an early age and keeping records. Over the past few years I was doing most of these things anyway and not getting paid for them.

I was speaking to my Farm Planner last friday and he recons that so many people will drop out of the scheme at the end of this year that there will be enough money in the budget in the years to come to continue to pay the €80, or at least €60 per cow and those who drop out after year 1 will not be allowed to rejoin.

He also believes that the measures will be tied in with cross farm compliance in the coming years and every farmer will have to carry out the measures of the Suckler Cow Scheme in order to access farm payments in the future - even if they are not in the Suckler cow scheme.

Thats interesting. Nearly all my neighbours have dropped out at this stage and I have come across a lot more who have also dropped out already.

reilig

Tableman wrote: »

Thats interesting. Nearly all my neighbours have dropped out at this stage and I have come across a lot more who have also dropped out already.

Yea, I know a lot of people that have dropped out too - most of them are the people who look at their cattle every 3 or 4 days and have high mortality rates and really don't like doing paperwork (ie. bad farmers).
IMO, if you are going to run a farm as a business, you need to grab every opportunity out there and run it properly by keeping proper records etc, etc. Every part of the Suckler Cow Scheme is of positive benefit to my Farm, IMO. Getting paid for doing the right thing can only be a bonus to me.

JCB1

Has anyone received payment for this scheme yet ?
I submitted all information online, but all animals are showing as rejected. I phoned the helpline (finally got through after 2 days) and they told me that they were having some issues with the system and that I would receive detail via post of any rejected animals. I have double checked all the dates and submittal dates and all are fine. Does any have anything similar to report ?

Turbury

Tableman wrote: »

Damn right I will. I went through all the terms & conditions again today and there is NO mention of it at all. I worry about this as it seems like a little sneaky thing to reject you. I shouldnt have to be reading about this on a third party website (or newspaper). I'll cal them and let you know how I get on with it.

How did you fair out with this tableman?

jonny d

exactly the same story with me.....some rejected,others verified but still no sign of moolah.......all my dates are correct{i have rang dept 5 times but no one can tell me what is wrong}obviously overstaffed and underworked up in portlaoise!!!!!!!

Tableman

How did you fair out with this tableman?

Well, at the start of September, they all showed up as 'rejected' or something like that so I could not enter in any new data (EG Castration date). I called the helpline numerous times, but the people I got through didnt really know why they were appearing like this. They said they were having problems with the system etc. However, last week, the status of most of them changed to "validated for payment". I have not yet received any payment though.

So to me, it looks like the whole thing is all over the place. I can now enter the castration date but do not know should I (I have them recorded in the pocket book). If I enter it now, I am afraid that it will go back to being rejected again.

I was at the course a couple of weeks ago and we were told at that to expect the payment last week.




"I would receive detail via post of any rejected animals"

When I called first at the start of September, they told me this too, that I would recive a letter in the last week of September. Now, its almost November and still no sign!

JCB1

I've just checked the site again and the majority are now showing as "validated for payment". One animal shows up as rejected but I assume this is because castration date was when the animal was older than 6 months - however we did have the vet perform the castrations as per t+c's. Does anyone know how/if the dept request this information (i.e. that the vet did the job) ?

reilig

JCB1 wrote: »

I've just checked the site again and the majority are now showing as "validated for payment". One animal shows up as rejected but I assume this is because castration date was when the animal was older than 6 months - however we did have the vet perform the castrations as per t+c's. Does anyone know how/if the dept request this information (i.e. that the vet did the job) ?

The dep will never check if the vet did his job or if you did it. You're in the clear.

Just registered my weining date a few mins ago online. Didn't realise that I had to have the dept notified within 28 days of taking them off the cows - Fair play to yesterday's farmer's journal. I'm selling them next thursday so I hadn't many days to get it done. They're off almost a month now and I have had no problems with them

Tableman

Just registered my weining date a few mins ago online. Didn't realise that I had to have the dept notified within 28 days of taking them off the cows - Fair play to yesterday's farmer's journal. I'm selling them next thursday so I hadn't many days to get it done. They're off almost a month now and I have had no problems with them

Im going to have to start reading these papers more. I generally go off the department website / guidelines but you seem to be getting more reliable info. from the newspaper!

Tableman

Has anybody received payment for this yet?

reilig

Tableman wrote: »

Has anybody received payment for this yet?

Not yet,

My weinlings are being sold on thursday so I hope to have the final info to them by next week and hope to get payment after than. Knowing the DEP, we will get payment next may or they'll split it into two payments.

Turbury

Tableman wrote: »

Has anybody received payment for this yet?

All mine are showing rejected also - rang dept. said it should be sorted next Sunday because there is an update/upload done then from the ICBF.
Also said they hope to get payments out in November!

reilig

Anyone get any payment yet? I notice online today that mine have all been validated for payment. I read in last week's journal that the Dept are advising that you have all claims in before christmas for 2008 so that they can pay you.

aghost

HI
One of my submitted weanlings got rejected (with R).
When I checked why it said the animal had no debudding date submitted. But the animal in question was a polly out of an angus cow. What should I have done or should I do now? If I was a bit cuter I could have stuck a date down anyway, who would have known not some twat in an office anyway. I know I will have to contact ag helpline or something but in case somone had similar problem.

Tableman

HI
One of my submitted weanlings got rejected (with R).
When I checked why it said the animal had no debudding date submitted. But the animal in question was a polly out of an angus cow. What should I have done or should I do now? If I was a bit cuter I could have stuck a date down anyway, who would have known not some twat in an office anyway. I know I will have to contact ag helpline or something but in case somone had similar problem.

Hmm, intersting one. I had a calf like this earlier in the year too and I put a date down. I'd imagine you will need to go through the appeal process?

Just checked mine now, status has change to "Paid".Still no sign of any money though!

Bitten & Hisses

aghost wrote: »

HI
One of my submitted weanlings got rejected (with R).
When I checked why it said the animal had no debudding date submitted. But the animal in question was a polly out of an angus cow. What should I have done or should I do now? If I was a bit cuter I could have stuck a date down anyway, who would have known not some twat in an office anyway. I know I will have to contact ag helpline or something but in case somone had similar problem.

You're supposed to put in "N/A" for polled animals. The ICBF site accepts this as a valid entry.

reilig

Tableman wrote: »

Just checked mine now, status has change to "Paid".Still no sign of any money though!

I know a few people that got their money yesterday

Bitten & Hisses

reilig wrote: »

I know a few people that got their money yesterday

I got paid for the first few on the 14th, with the written notice arriving yesterday. Where can you guys see the status of your individual animals? I'm using the ICBF site and can't see the status anywhere. Also, I (unfortunately) had a few deaths earlier in the year and did everything by the book, tagged and sent to knackery, etc. I understand that I should get paid for these calves too, but I keep getting the pre-weaning form sent back to me for the dead animals, even though I sent it back to Bandon with a cover note stating that the calves were registered as dead at birth. Has anyone had any similar experience?

Tableman

I got paid for the first few on the 14th, with the written notice arriving yesterday. Where can you guys see the status of your individual animals? I'm using the ICBF site and can't see the status anywhere. Also, I (unfortunately) had a few deaths earlier in the year and did everything by the book, tagged and sent to knackery, etc. I understand that I should get paid for these calves too, but I keep getting the pre-weaning form sent back to me for the dead animals, even though I sent it back to Bandon with a cover note stating that the calves were registered as dead at birth. Has anyone had any similar experience?

www.agfood.ie --- Its where I regiestered and entered all the details. I had a couple of dead calves too, they are showing up as "paid" but as I have said, still havent received any money

Bitten & Hisses

Tableman wrote: »

www.agfood.ie --- Its where I regiestered and entered all the details. I had a couple of dead calves too, they are showing up as "paid" but as I have said, still havent received any money

Thanks for that, I just wasn't looking closely enough to find the events site. Turns out I got paid for the deaths and for the earlier calves I weaned, so it's all good. I did notice one problem, however:
I have been entering my events on the icbf site, or by post, depending on which is most convenient. I noticed that some of the weaning info I entered on the icbf site on Monday was not updated on agfood.ie. Looks like I'll be updating directly on the department site from now on.

Tableman

Got paid today

Tableman

After all the trouble I had with status "D" on the system, when it changed back to "V", one of my weanlings weaning & meal intro dates had disappeared. So I entered them again just this week. For some reason, it is now rejected!

This system is all over the place.

I have been paid for most of mine now but their castration date has not been entered as I was unable to do so and you cannot enter it after they have status "Paid".

It was my first year registering calves online. Their claim that registration is immediate is completely false, as often mine dont get registered for a few days and then the registration date is a few days later than when you actually registered them. This has a bearing on your eligibility for the grant.

Also, I am unsure about the validity of receiving payment for dead calves. The aim of the scheme is to improve the quality of weanling, that is obviously not possible when you have a dead calf. Maybe, this should have been the reduction of the grant that the government could have introduced instead of halving the payment.

Really, I dont see how the current system is helping achieve the goals of the scheme. Still, I have got most of my money so I gotta be happy with that. I know many who do all their dealing through post are having a nightmare getting stuff sent back to them

reilig

I got paid today!!

JCB1

I got paid in full also - I'm very surprised that it was so quick and easy.

bbam

Very happy as we got 70% paid out now...