More DC up for Motorway Status but which ones?

darkman2

Motorway Redesignation


25 August 2008


SI No. 279 of 2008

Roads Act 2007 (Declaration of Motorways) Order 2008

In accordance with the provisions of section 8 of the Roads Act 2007, the Minister for Transport, Mr. Noel Dempsey T.D., has made the above Statutory Instrument.

The purpose of the Order is to provide for the declaration of certain public roads as motorways.

On a motorway, higher maximum speed limits apply than on other public roads and access to specific types of road user or vehicle may be restricted. In addition, protection can be afforded to the States investment in the national road network through the application of appropriate development management strategies, thereby preventing premature obsolescence of important road infrastructure.

This Order applies only to high quality dual carriageways which were already built, under construction or in planning when the Roads Act 2007 was enacted.

The Order will come into operation on 24th September 2008.

The sections of the major interurban routes affected are as follows:



N6 (Dublin/Galway Major Inter-urban Route)

Kinnegad to Kilbeggan (open to traffic)

Kilbeggan to Athlone (open to traffic)



N7 (Dublin/Limerick Major Inter-urban Route)

Castletown to Nenagh (under construction)

Nenagh to Limerick (under construction)



N8 (Dublin/Cork Major Inter-urban Route)

Cashel Bypass (open to traffic)

Urlingford to Cashel (under construction)

Cashel to Mitchelstown (open to traffic)

Mitchelstown to Fermoy (under construction)



N9 (Dublin/Waterford Major Interurban Route)

Kilcullen to Powerstown (under construction)

Carlow Bypass (open to traffic)



Drivers of vehicles using the open sections of these routes should note that until 24th September 2008 the existing maximum speed limit of 100kph will continue to apply.



Further applications have been received from the National Roads Authority for re-designations of other sections of the national road network which will be the subject of a public consultation process shortly.

www.transport.ie

Amtmann

darkman2 wrote: »

www.transport.ie

Certainly the N8 from Watergrasshill all the way to the Dunkettle Roundabout is one of the DCs alluded to. A Dept of Transport official told me. I have no more details unfortunately.

Chris_533976

Rumours in the Galway Independant (Pinch of Salt) say the obvious ones, N6 Galway - Ballinasloe and Ballinasloe to Athlone. But they also suggest that the Athlone bypass has been put forward.

Typewriter

I'd say the N22 Ballincollig bypass would be a contender

&

N25 Dunkettle - Carrigtwohill

(although has anyone else noticed that the cats eyes don't work? This must be seen to as its so dangerous at night especially on the older DC towards Midleton)

darkman2

What about the N2 Ashbourne Bypass - you will rarely find a more likely candidate. The fact it does not have 'M' Classification looks rediculous on what is a standard of road above some motorways atm!

1huge1

Well this means that the government are definitely not considering that whole reducing speed limits thing that was proposed by the green party the other day.

Question: is the Limerick south ring dual carriageway going to be upgraded to 120km/hr?

Victor

green_jesus wrote: »

I'd say the N22 Ballincollig bypass would be a contender

Too isolated.

N25 Dunkettle - Carrigtwohill

What about local access?

(although has anyone else noticed that the cats eyes don't work? This must be seen to as its so dangerous at night especially on the older DC towards Midleton)

Tell them.

Oh, and turn on your headlights.

darkman2 wrote: »

What about the N2 Ashbourne Bypass - you will rarely find a more likely candidate. The fact it does not have 'M' Classification looks rediculous on what is a standard of road above some motorways atm!

Again the problem of local access.

JayeL

Victor wrote: »

Too isolated.
What about local access?
Tell them.

Oh, and turn on your headlights. :DAgain the problem of local access.

The Ashbourne-Dublin dual-carriageway should be a motorway to keep pedestrians, cyclists and L drivers off a road that's essentially a motorway already.

The only requirement for local access is that the motorway would have to start after the Coldwinters exit so that non-motorway traffic can leave and take the R135 to Ash.

AugustusMaximus

Victor wrote: »

Too isolated.
What about local access?

Agreed. Dempsey said himself that stretches of Motorway wouldn't be rolled out haphazard which rules out both those stretches of road.

Interesting though that he quashed the 120kph application for those stretches of roading due to the pending Motorway application of other roads.

BluntGuy

I think the N8 Watergrasshill - Dunkettle will definately get re-designated sometime in the future (in my opinion, it should have been done so as soon as the Fermoy Bypass opened). Not so sure about the N25 and N22. Parts of the N25 NEED to be re-designated Motorway (there are some sections FAR to dangerous for cyclists, pedestrians etc.). However, the N25 still has far too many hideous at-grade junctions for that to work at the moment. The N22 I don't think will be upgraded anytime soon.

The reason I'm so anxious for all these motorway orders to go through is to stop the ridiculous situation where we have roads constantly changing between 'N' and 'M' with no discernable change in quality. It just gets a bit messy and confusing e.g outside Cahir: at the moment the M8 suddenly becomes the N8, but with no change in road quality. That will be sorted out come September 24th but there are other road schemes around the country that suffer from similar problems.

Run_to_da_hills

1huge1 wrote: »

Question: is the Limerick south ring dual carriageway going to be upgraded to 120km/hr?

I doubt it very much seen as they downgraded the M50 from 120 to 100 km per hour for no apparent reason.

amacachi

The reasons for the M50 speed limit reduction are fairly apparent and have been mentioned several times in several threads.

BluntGuy

I don't think that the M50 speed limit should be limited to 100 kmp/h. I think that only apply to the auxillary lane. I heard that in England, part of the M1 Motorway had a similar upgrade (to four lanes and a 'filter lane') and its speed limit was left exactly the same.

Victor

Did that road have narrow lanes? Did it have a large number of junctions close together. Was it as heavily trafficked as the M50 is at peak times? Did it have a large proportion of eejits?

amacachi

Also did it have stupidly poor lines of sight in areas?

mysterious

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

I doubt it very much seen as they downgraded the M50 from 120 to 100 km per hour for no apparent reason.

OH FFS

That is the most stupid explanation and reason ive ever heard.

People have been locked up for saying stuff like that. What has the M50 got to do with it?


Thats like saying a bypass around Singapore has got a 100k/m/h speed limit, SO in that case Limerick ring road can't have a higher speed limit, and the increase wont happen.


This has fu** all got to do with it. M50 speed was downgraded, because of the new narrower lane widths and an extra auxillary lane was provided too. Space is very limited with new the upgrade, hence so the lanes are tighter. Good jesus people who havent a clue - dont talk nonsense.

Victor

Chill.

mysterious

Sorry Victor

We can't have ppl saying total nonsense on a thread they have not a clue about.

Zoney

My guess is that 120km/h would be unlikely on the SRR, because although the junctions are relatively spaced out, there is a severe enough curve on it between N20 and N24 junctions, which would presumably be less up to 120km/h.

Also there's no guarantee there won't be traffic queues from the junctions (particularly Tipp Road junction and the planned Dock Road junction).

D.L.R.

Does the new 100kmh limit apply to the entire M50, ie the Sandyford-Shankill section? No upgrade occurring there and still 120 at the mo.

I drove the new bit of the M50 last month, late at night. 100kmh limit is appropriate. I averaged 90-100 and wouldn't feel comfortable doing 120, not in those lanes with those bends. And during the day with heavy traffic, you'd be lucky to get near 100 anyway.

thebman

N6 (Dublin/Galway Major Inter-urban Route)

Kinnegad to Kilbeggan (open to traffic)

Don't know why this wasn't motorway in the first place, the roads better than the motorway before it

Irish and Proud

Victor wrote: »

Did that road have narrow lanes? Did it have a large number of junctions close together. Was it as heavily trafficked as the M50 is at peak times? Did it have a large proportion of eejits?

The new M50 lane widths follow the international standard of 3.500m. The US and UK use the 3.650m standard (imperial: 12'), while the traditional Irish lane width (wide motorway) is 3.750m - ie. the M1 to Dundalk, M4 to Kinnegead, M7 to Portlaoise etc. My guess is that when Ireland adapted the metric system, the engineers rounded up to the nearest 0.250m rather than adapting international lane widths. Given that the autoroute speed limit in France is 130kph while the lane widths are 3.500m, I don't think the narrower lanes have much bearing on the speed limits - the new standard narrow median (lane widths: 3.500m) motorways in Ireland will have a 120kph speed limit.

I hope this helps!

ardmacha

In France, Germany and elsewhere congested urban motorways with many exits often have a lower speed limit, even if rural sections don't. Apart from anything else road capacity is greater if there is less mixture in the speeds of traffic.

L1011

brim4brim wrote: »

N6 (Dublin/Galway Major Inter-urban Route)

Kinnegad to Kilbeggan (open to traffic)

Don't know why this wasn't motorway in the first place, the roads better than the motorway before it

More complex to get planning permission and go-ahead for a Motorway under the old system I believe.

E92

Obviously, this is not good news for people like cyclopath2001 and Lennoxschips, but for the rest of us who don't want to live in the dark ages and go everywhere at a snail's pace, this is fantastic. The NRA is easily my favourite state organisation - I just wish we had other Government bodies with such foresight and a capacity to use their brains like the NRA do.

Furet wrote: »

Certainly the N8 from Watergrasshill all the way to the Dunkettle Roundabout is one of the DCs alluded to. A Dept of Transport official told me. I have no more details unfortunately.

I really hope so, I could never understand why they didn't bother first time round.

green_jesus wrote: »

I'd say the N22 Ballincollig bypass would be a contender

&

N25 Dunkettle - Carrigtwohill

(although has anyone else noticed that the cats eyes don't work? This must be seen to as its so dangerous at night especially on the older DC towards Midleton)

I would have concerns about the N25 getting a limit of 120 km/h between Dunkettle & the exit for Little Island, because of the fact that between these junctions the third lane doubles up as an entry/exit, e.g when coming on to the DC from Little Island heading for Cork, on the same lane traffic has to merge to the right if it wants to go to Cork which is fine because that's what happens on any other DC normally, but here the lane never merges and thus you can have traffic merging right to go to Cork while at the same time on the same stretch of road traffic that wants to go to the Dunkettle roundabout has top merge to the left. That doesn't happen on any other road by and large.

I haven't driven up the rest of the road in yonks, but AFAIK this problem I have identified doesn't happen anywhere else, so thus the rest of the road in question should have no difficulty at all in handling a 120 km/h limit.

The Ballincollig bypass is well capable of 120 km/h, indeed I feel it could handle 140 no bother. So the sooner that road gets a 120 km/h speed limit, the better!

JayeL wrote: »

The only requirement for local access is that the motorway would have to start after the Coldwinters exit so that non-motorway traffic can leave and take the R135 to Ash.

Well then there's a solution - just re-designate the appropriate bit of road from there!

AugustusMaximus wrote: »

Agreed. Dempsey said himself that stretches of Motorway wouldn't be rolled out haphazard which rules out both those stretches of road.

Interesting though that he quashed the 120kph application for those stretches of roading due to the pending Motorway application of other roads.

AFAIK Cork County Council have applied again to get the stretches of road that were turned down for 120 km/h last time to be upgraded to 120. The precise details are in the Infrastructure forum.

BluntGuy wrote: »

The reason I'm so anxious for all these motorway orders to go through is to stop the ridiculous situation where we have roads constantly changing between 'N' and 'M' with no discernable change in quality. It just gets a bit messy and confusing e.g outside Cahir: at the moment the M8 suddenly becomes the N8, but with no change in road quality. That will be sorted out come September 24th but there are other road schemes around the country that suffer from similar problems.

Agreed, but the biggest benefit by a country mile to me is the increased speed limit to a much more respectable 120 km/h.

Zoney wrote: »

My guess is that 120km/h would be unlikely on the SRR, because although the junctions are relatively spaced out, there is a severe enough curve on it between N20 and N24 junctions, which would presumably be less up to 120km/h.

That road is a full blown HQDC(well the NRA says it is anyway), and having driven on the road in question there's no doubt in my mind that that road is well capable of a 120 km/h speed limit.

Also the N20 DC as you approach Limerick is well deserving of a 120 km/h speed limit not to mention being worthy of re-classification to Motorway.

Irish and Proud wrote: »

The new M50 lane widths follow the international standard of 3.500m. The US and UK use the 3.650m standard (imperial: 12'), while the traditional Irish lane width (wide motorway) is 3.750m - ie. the M1 to Dundalk, M4 to Kinnegead, M7 to Portlaoise etc. My guess is that when Ireland adapted the metric system, the engineers rounded up to the nearest 0.250m rather than adapting international lane widths. Given that the autoroute speed limit in France is 130kph while the lane widths are 3.500m, I don't think the narrower lanes have much bearing on the speed limits - the new standard narrow median (lane widths: 3.500m) motorways in Ireland will have a 120kph speed limit.

I hope this helps!

Well then there is no need for just 100 on the M50, though I would prefer if we stuck with the 3.65m / 12 ft wide lanes when building new roads. They do feel that bit safer(I know it's only 6 inches of a difference, but still), and needless to say are more capable of higher speeds and thus speed limits too.

thebman

MYOB wrote: »

More complex to get planning permission and go-ahead for a Motorway under the old system I believe.

Fair enough, I guess the layby's will be shut when its turned into a motorway

Skyhater

darkman2 wrote: »

What about the N2 Ashbourne Bypass - you will rarely find a more likely candidate. The fact it does not have 'M' Classification looks rediculous on what is a standard of road above some motorways atm!

Totally agree!!! the N2 should be motorway!!!

Victor wrote: »

........Again the problem of local access.

Local access is not an issue beyond J2. Apart from access issues between M50 and J2 (where they could keep it N status), beyond J2 should be M2.

ardmacha

Local access is not an issue beyond J2. Apart from access issues between M50 and J2 (where they could keep it N status), beyond J2 should be M2.

A motorway that stops just short of another motorway is slightly messy, we have enough of that on the M4/N4. The solution to the N2 is to have a non N2 connection from Finglas to the old road using the local road network, perhaps this could be included in the M50 upgrade.

serfboard

ardmacha wrote: »

The solution to the N2 is to have a non N2 connection from Finglas to the old road using the local road network, perhaps this could be included in the M50 upgrade.

Indeed. I can't understand why, in some parts of the country (N1, N2, N4 etc.), they cannibalise parts of the old road to build the new one, which is HQDC and capable of 120 km/h but which can't be motorway because of the cannibalisation! And it's usually only a few kms we're talking about, which surely couldn't have added hugely to the cost?

Chris_533976

No real info, but I got this today from the NRA.

The Authority made further applications to the Minister for Transport in April 2008, for orders declaring as motorways sections of a number of national primary routes. Further information including details of the sections of road involved will be available on the Department of Transport's website at the public consultation stage - http://www.transport.ie/viewitem.asp?id=10193&lang=ENG&loc=2270

Skyhater

ardmacha wrote: »

A motorway that stops just short of another motorway is slightly messy, we have enough of that on the M4/N4. The solution to the N2 is to have a non N2 connection from Finglas to the old road using the local road network, perhaps this could be included in the M50 upgrade.

I don't think it is a messy solution at all.... quite simple to have a couple km's of N2 before it becomes the M2.... It will all be grade separated anyway, with no "left in - left out" junctions. This is much better than the M4/N4.... but similar.

The solution you propose is a waste of money and no need to do this. They could upgrade the 1st slip road onto the old N2, but no other work would be required.

Skyhater

I just saw this entry in Wikipedia:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/N2_road#Upgrades

Does anybody know if this is true? Are they considering upgrading the N2 to Motorway status?

Skyhater

Skyhater wrote: »

I just saw this entry in Wikipedia:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/N2_road#Upgrades

Does anybody know if this is true? Are they considering upgrading the N2 to Motorway status?

Scrap that questions... just saw this, and the other post.

Sorry for double posting.