Pigeon/crow with rifle

maglite

Can you shoot these birds with a rifle?


Friend of mine has a problem with them every year and has asked me to deal with them, up to now he was using a poison but this is not the idea solution.


Are there time of year limitations on the shooting.

All shooting to be done on the ground

tiny-nioclas

Its all about backstop as far as i know maglite,make sure you always have more than enough backstop, what calibre are you shooting them with?

NoNameRanger

Under the derogation, yes, shooting with a rifle is legal when they are damaging crops.... etc.

It wasn't me!

Someone mentioned the other day that the derogation had expired. Would it be safer to wait until it's renewed?

cavan shooter

You can shoot vermin under the derogation with shotgun or rifle, but only between the set dates.
http://www.npws.ie/en/media/Media,5318,en.pdf

Pigeon is classed as both game species, has a season (1st Nove etc so I would say shotgun as you cannot hunt a protected wild bird in open season with a rifle.

Woodpigeon
The period commencing on the 1st day of November in each year and ending on the 31st day of January immediately following that year.

but when it is treated as vermin under the derogation you can use a shotgun or rifle.
Confusing or what

And as Tiny says make sure you've a backstop

riflehunter77

Lads can some one clear this up for us when can we shoot wood pigeons, there seems to be quite a few dates going around the place I was under the same impression as cavan shooter for the woodies unless a farmer called you in an gave you permission but then I see on http://www.irishfieldsports.com/law.htm that the dates are from 1st of june to the 31 of jan. Im not sure if that site is a 100 % but can some one clarify the dates for us..

Donalmit

Some info from the NARGC web site. May answer some questions that were asked lately.....

CLARIFICATION ON THE
SHOOTING OF WOODPIGEON

In so far as this Statutory Instrument (S.I.) gives effect to a derogation as permitted under Article 9 of the 79/409 Birds Directive, game shooters should take note of the following important aspects of the S.I.
The First Schedule lists the species to which the derogation applies and the woodpigeon is included in the schedule. The second Schedule lists the means by which the species in the First Schedule may be controlled and this includes for all the listed species killing by shooting with a shotgun.
Section 3(1) states that where the species (including woodpigeon) listed in the First Schedule
(ii) is likely to cause serious damage to crops, livestock,
fisheries or forestry
or
(iii) is likely to cause damage to flora and fauna,
the Minister may declare that such species may be killed by any of the means listed in the Second Schedule in any part of the state or throughout the state.
Game shooters’ should in particular note the wording of the S.I. which states that the species (including woodpigeon) do not have to be actually causing damage but are “likely to cause serious damage…” {see Section 3(1)(ii) and (iii)}. Therefore, it is patently not necessary to observe woodpigeons feeding on crops or to be even close to crops. However, the shooting must take place during a period when crops are in the ground.
It should also be noted that the S.I. allows for the killing to take place “in any part of the state or throughout the state”. The place within or throughout the state is unconditional and nowhere does it state “in any part of the state or throughout the state except over stubble”. These unambiguous provisions are at the heart of a dispute between NARGC and the National Parks & Wildlife Service. The position of NPWS is that the S.I. is to be interpreted as meaning crop protection cannot possibly be undertaken by shooting over stubble. Any reading of the S.I. reveals this to be an incorrect interpretation. It is an interpretation which NPWS has never published and neither is it supported by any legal or statutory provision. Nor does bear any similarity to the explanatory note published with the S.I. Additionally, the control of woodpigeon, crows etc, is by far the most effective when conducted over stubble.
Furthermore, Section 6(1)(b) of the S.I. provides very specifically that an Authorised Officer (Wildlife Ranger) may only approach and seek information from a landowner over whose land the control is taking place. And the information which the Authorised Officer may request is limited to the number of birds killed or captured and the means by which they have been killed or captured. He/she may also seek information pertaining to the type, quantity and frequency of any poisons which have been laid for the purposes of controlling the species. There is no provision permitting any approach to be made to any person who is not the landowner or for the seizure of any property of a person who is not the landowner.

While NPWS disagrees with the aforementioned, the matters referred to in this explanatory note are due to be determined by the courts in the not too distant future.

cavan shooter

Lads from my understanding and thanks to the wording of the derogation you should not be shooting woodpigeons at the present. Why?

1. Wood pigeons come under a season starting 1st November and have since an ammendment in 2003.

2. Wood pigeon where causing serious damage to crops can only be shot under the terms of the derogation which has a fixed time limit (season) see link

http://www.npws.ie/en/media/Media,5318,en.pdf

foxhunter

cavan shooter wrote: »

Lads from my understanding and thanks to the wording of the derogation you should not be shooting woodpigeons at the present. Why?

1. Wood pigeons come under a season starting 1st November and have since an ammendment in 2003.

2. Wood pigeon where causing serious damage to crops can only be shot under the terms of the derogation which has a fixed time limit (season) see link

http://www.npws.ie/en/media/Media,5318,en.pdf

It seems to read like that alright basically no pigeon should be shot after 30th of april crop protection or not.

stevoman

foxhunter wrote: »

It seems to read like that alright basically no pigeon should be shot after 30th of april crop protection or not.

wouldnt make much sense though does it, seeming that the crop is riping up over after those dates

Vegeta

foxhunter wrote: »

It seems to read like that alright basically no pigeon should be shot after 30th of april crop protection or not.

Or crow (various) or magpie by the looks of things

its an odd one

cavan shooter

Stevoman your making a massive assumption their, i.e sense had anything to do with the wording of the derogations. Mr. Gormley and his ilke has their fingers all over it.

If we Forget about the woodies,Why have a season on control of vermin (grey, mag etc) ending in april the time april on is when they do most damage:mad:

airy-fairy

Where is no name ranger when you need him?

Is just that the out of date delarations are on the website (they can only be applied for 4 months and need constant renewal... )

==============
EDIT: I just found this info on the envron website. It has the most recent declarations which run out on Sunday:
http://www.environ.ie/en/Heritage/NationalParksandWildlife/LicencesPermits/DeclarationsmadeunderBirdDirective/

BornToKill

Take a look a this - it's an article from the 'Carlow Nationalist' on French tourists shooting pigeons and crows down that way.

http://archives.tcm.ie/carlownationalist/2008/08/13/story34668.asp

cavan shooter

airy-fairy wrote: »

Where is no name ranger when you need him?

Is just that the out of date delarations are on the website (they can only be applied for 4 months and need constant renewal... )


Thats a relief otherwise I have been very naughty since the end of April as most of my mags and greys etc were controlled then.

They don't make it easy do they, why not let it run for the year

stevoman

BornToKill wrote: »

Take a look a this - it's an article from the 'Carlow Nationalist' on French tourists shooting pigeons and crows down that way.

http://archives.tcm.ie/carlownationalist/2008/08/13/story34668.asp

i have been aware of this going on for a while and its also a lot of italian shooters doing the same. they are acyually paying farmers for the shooting so it looks as thoough decoying is going to become a lucrative business in ireland for years to come. good for the farmers and the crops, bad for the pigeon numbers unfortunatly.

Im not going to sugarcoat my reason for decoying as saying that i do it to protect crop, as i love the sport itself. but if lads are coming from oveersea's to shoot pigeons by the bucketload it will eventually create a massive lull in pigeon numbers. i never shoot the same area frequently as i dont think it is really that fair on the pigeons either as you have to have respect for them, and respect that too much shooting will eventually eradicate them altogether from areas and that is the last thing that any of us want. after all we cant blame the pigeon from feding on crop. it only does what is natural to its instincts and we have to keep a fine line on how much we shoot aswell as how much are willing to let them feed. IMO not shooting pigeons and crows over stubbles is a good idea as it gives the birds a fairer chance and afterall i dont consider a shooter a fair sportman unless he has the upmost respect for his quarry.

i have heard from good sources in carlow that deal directly with the shooting tourists that some of these guys are gettting bags in the hundreds, which to me gets on my nerves as the best part of them end up in a ditch. if the pigeon is to be considered a fine game bird, well then let it be treated like one and at least harvest the meat from it like the best part of us shooters here on boards do. lets not forget the toursists can go home and not have to worry about the welfare of irish bird numbers, for them its sport and when money is being payed to shoot them i beleive a lot of respect goes out the window for the quarry.

marlyman

lads i shoot crows off my dads barley all the time with my 17 hmr, and the odd pigeon. although its easier to decoy the crows.

p28559

.17 or .22 airrifle would do the job...while minimising the back drop issue...

pigeon has a season....but you can still shoot it out of season provided your protecting a standing crop????????????

right?

alan123

You can shoot it if they are damaging crops over that crop but you would want to have the farmer on side i.e he asked you to help. It will all be sorted out soon as there is a case going on about guys who were shooting over stubble next to a crop being damaged. The question is can you control pigeons damaging crops by shooting them elsewhere. It doesnt make sense that you have to shoot over the crop; if you were to shoot pigeons over broccoli or cauliflower you would probably do more damage than the pigeons!!! For my two cents.... pigeons are off limits until 1st Nov unless you are asked by a farmer who is being plagued on a standing crop.