Lufthansa the New Irish ' Flagcarrier '

Davidth88

Anyone else surprised that Aer Lingus couldn't spare an aeroplane to bring home the Irish Olympic team.

So you ended up with the strange site of a LH A320 and an irish flag sticking out of it

Was it money , or did EI just not have a spare aircraft to do the job ?

KTRIC

Well at least they got a free meal

*Kol*

KTRIC wrote: »

Well at least they got a free meal

Probably a sandwich knowing DLH!! Where did they bring them back from? Frankfurt?

Davidth88

I guessed Frankfurt , but don't know

We got anyone from EI on-line care to comment ?

I am surprised the media ( the usual ' chattering classes ' radio shows like the last word ) didn't pick up on it.

*Kol*

It was probably cheaper to go with Lufthansa!!:p Or else the olmpic commitee left it to late to arrange with Aer Lingus.

Davidth88

Its just the day before I watched the British team arrive home on a BA 747 with a specially fitted nose cone etc etc ...... the contrast was stark.

Ok the success of the two teams are contrasting ( but then again so are the size of the teams ) , but I was a bit surprised .

*Kol*

Davidth88 wrote: »

Its just the day before I watched the British team arrive home on a BA 747 with a specially fitted nose cone etc etc ...... the contrast was stark.

Ok the success of the two teams are contrasting ( but then again so are the size of the teams ) , but I was a bit surprised .

I bet you will find that Lufthansa, Air France etc sent aircraft to collect their national teams.

Fratton Fred

Aer Lingus probably had too many planes dedicated to bringing back politicians, committee memebrs and other general "hangers on off to China on a jolly" to worry about bringing back the actual sports men and women the whole thing is actually about.

Traffic

Or maybe they have an airline to run and couldnt spare the ac

FlutterinBantam

That's much more like it.

Ei are now a commercial pvt concern,all that kind of stuff is well left in the past.

It's 2008 folks.

Fratton Fred

FlutterinBantam wrote: »

That's much more like it.

Ei are now a commercial pvt concern,all that kind of stuff is well left in the past.

It's 2008 folks.

as are Lufthansa, BA, air France.....

FlutterinBantam

Ok.. the Irish Olympic team obviously used LH from FRA to go and come and go to Beijing.

LH got plenty of dosh from them for the long haul fare.RTN DUB-FRA-Beijing.

Obviously the deal included the DUB-FRA-DUB leg.

Why would EI want to get involved for buttons???

Thats the reason.

Zyox

EI also watching themselves a little bit more financially versus BA and especially Luftansa no?

Traffic

The scheduled LH flight comes in from Frankfurt at 17:10hrs

I would imagine the BA 747 was charted by the British olympic association
I dont think WW would provide one for free!

OPENROAD

Traffic wrote: »

The scheduled LH flight comes in from Frankfurt at 17:10hrs

I would imagine the BA 747 was charted by the British olympic association
I dont think WW would provide one for free!

The BA flight for the British olympic team also had normal fare paying passangers on board.

probe

What is wrong with LH?

Germany is a Republic, like Ireland, a fellow EU member state.

It has an efficient operating system as a country - the German education and culture makes people take issues seriously - something sadly lacking in so many areas of Irish life. There is no waiting for hospital admission in Germany, and most court decisions take days rather than months or years in DE.

I was admitted to "A&E" in a hospital a few years ago (because I had a nose bleed!). The German doctor who attended me was waiting for me on arrival - I didn't have to wait for her. Both of us had three languages in common, but she insisted in speaking to me in English, because she had fluency in medical English terms, and knew from experience that you have to speak to patients in their own native language - no matter how good their fluency in other languages might be, because they are unlikely to have a command of medical technical terms. It seems to me that the same issue applies to flight safety technical terms. Flight crew linguistic ability and/or recorded voice announcements must be managed accordingly.

I was expecting her to plug my nose with something and tell me to go home. To my surprise, she told me that she would like to keep me in the hospital for about 10 days to run some tests. (This was a public hospital - not a money making operation). To cut a long story short, they sorted out the issue. I used to have the odd nose bleed "once in the blue moon" since I was a child, and assumed they were "normal". Thankfully I've never had one since that hospital visit, and the action they took reduced the risk of other more serious issues in the future.

LH aircraft are clean and well maintained (unlike those of a certain airline on the "EI" register).

And I have no doubt that if the oxygen masks had to come down on an LH flight, the passengers would receive the information that was required to enable them to get their masks working and reassure them with confidence, via an automated system or otherwise that events were being professionally managed by the Flugbesatzung. And they wouldn't wait for the five year deadline to repair known engineering defects or potential corrosion risk issues.

.probe

*Kol*

probe wrote: »

What is wrong with LH?

Germany is a Republic, like Ireland, a fellow EU member state.

It has an efficient operating system as a country - the German education and culture makes people take issues seriously - something sadly lacking in so many areas of Irish life. There is no waiting for hospital admission in Germany, and most court decisions take days rather than months or years in DE.

I was admitted to "A&E" in a hospital a few years ago (because I had a nose bleed!). The German doctor who attended me was waiting for me on arrival - I didn't have to wait for her. Both of us had three languages in common, but she insisted in speaking to me in English, because she had fluency in medical English terms, and knew from experience that you have to speak to patients in their own native language - no matter how good their fluency in other languages might be, because they are unlikely to have a command of medical technical terms. It seems to me that the same issue applies to flight safety technical terms. Flight crew linguistic ability and/or recorded voice announcements must be managed accordingly.

I was expecting her to plug my nose with something and tell me to go home. To my surprise, she told me that she would like to keep me in the hospital for about 10 days to run some tests. (This was a public hospital - not a money making operation). To cut a long story short, they sorted out the issue. I used to have the odd nose bleed "once in the blue moon" since I was a child, and assumed they were "normal". Thankfully I've never had one since that hospital visit, and the action they took reduced the risk of other more serious issues in the future.

LH aircraft are clean and well maintained (unlike those of a certain airline on the "EI" register).

And I have no doubt that if the oxygen masks had to come down on an LH flight, the passengers would receive the information that was required to enable them to get their masks working and reassure them with confidence, via an automated system or otherwise that events were being professionally managed by the Flugbesatzung. And they wouldn't wait for the five year deadline to repair known engineering defects or potential corrosion risk issues.

.probe

As far as I can see nobody said there was anything wrong with DLH.
Interesting about your nose bleeds and well done for getting a mention in about the oxygen masks.

Davidth88

Errrr nothing is wrong with LH or with Germany . Indeed I have always thought LH was a fine airline ( no idea what it's finances are like ).

I am a little surprised at the lack of nationistic pride here.

Ill put my cards on the line , as some of you may know I am British, if I saw the British Olympic team arrive on a LH ( or any one else except a British Airline , be that VS or whoever ) I would have been surprised/ annoyed TBH.

So has national pride here been totally swallowed up by the great god Euro, I don't think so.

Maybe this was the wrong forum ?

If any of you guys watch ' Reeling in The Years ' on RTE , virtually every year seemed to feature a sporting/eurovision or something ' triumph ' where the competitors were met at the top of the steps from an EI jet, this is great publicitiy for the airline involved and ' flies the flag '.

I take peoples point that nowadays EI is a commercial concern ( as is BA ) but the advertising alone would be worth it I think.

FlutterinBantam

It might have been, but I'm sure all travel arrangements were made long before the Olympics and LH were hardly likely to pass up any publ. which might accrue.

With regard to Reelin in the Years yes EI were more active in those times on issues of national importance,but like clergy throwing in the ball on All -Ireland day, things have moved on.

arctictree

probe wrote: »

What is wrong with LH?

Germany is a Republic, like Ireland, a fellow EU member state.

It has an efficient operating system as a country - the German education and culture makes people take issues seriously - something sadly lacking in so many areas of Irish life. There is no waiting for hospital admission in Germany, and most court decisions take days rather than months or years in DE.

I was admitted to "A&E" in a hospital a few years ago (because I had a nose bleed!). The German doctor who attended me was waiting for me on arrival - I didn't have to wait for her. Both of us had three languages in common, but she insisted in speaking to me in English, because she had fluency in medical English terms, and knew from experience that you have to speak to patients in their own native language - no matter how good their fluency in other languages might be, because they are unlikely to have a command of medical technical terms. It seems to me that the same issue applies to flight safety technical terms. Flight crew linguistic ability and/or recorded voice announcements must be managed accordingly.

I was expecting her to plug my nose with something and tell me to go home. To my surprise, she told me that she would like to keep me in the hospital for about 10 days to run some tests. (This was a public hospital - not a money making operation). To cut a long story short, they sorted out the issue. I used to have the odd nose bleed "once in the blue moon" since I was a child, and assumed they were "normal". Thankfully I've never had one since that hospital visit, and the action they took reduced the risk of other more serious issues in the future.

LH aircraft are clean and well maintained (unlike those of a certain airline on the "EI" register).

And I have no doubt that if the oxygen masks had to come down on an LH flight, the passengers would receive the information that was required to enable them to get their masks working and reassure them with confidence, via an automated system or otherwise that events were being professionally managed by the Flugbesatzung. And they wouldn't wait for the five year deadline to repair known engineering defects or potential corrosion risk issues.

.probe

Have to agree with all your points there.

I fly EI657 at 19:55 nearly every fortnight from Frankfurt to Dublin for the last 18 months. I think the flight has been on time on just two occasions. On average, there is a 1 hour delay.

It really sickens me when I arrive to the airport and time after time there is a 'delayed' sign beside the EI flight while all the others are OK. Also, it is the same excuse every time - 'We picked up a delay on an earlier flight'. Was talking to an air hostess last week, and she said that this has been happening now since they made the schedules tighter.

I am seriously thinking about changing to LH even though their scheduled time is an hour later. It nearly always leaves on time.

Sorry - OT and rant over...!

Davidth88

We can start a new thread ' Why are all EI flights into Dublin after 15:00 delayed '


This is also my experience too.

FlutterinBantam

Because all the aircraft have been utilised earlier on and as there is no standby a/c any delays accrued from the morning sched. are carried forward.

*Kol*

FlutterinBantam wrote: »

Because all the aircraft have been utilised earlier on and as there is no standby a/c any delays accrued from the morning sched. are carried forward.

Is that an official EI excuse or something you just made up???

Surely they can manage a day without a delay? *stir stir*

Actually I hav taken a lot of flights lately on EI and other airlines and have experienced very few delays. In fairness a lot have been long hual where they can absorb the delays though.

FlutterinBantam

Aaah no .. not an official or unofficial excuse.


Just the facts son, just the facts.;)

probe

Davidth88 wrote: »

Errrr nothing is wrong with LH or with Germany . Indeed I have always thought LH was a fine airline ( no idea what it's finances are like ).

I am a little surprised at the lack of nationistic pride here.

There is no “national pride” difference in my mind between Aer Lingus, Lufthansa, Air France/KLM, SAS and similar. Just as I’d take a €50 banknote – I don’t care if it is a French or German or Italian or Irish one. I consider myself at home in Germany or France – as I do in Ireland. Equally I have no hesitation in criticising certain aspects of these countries.

I know that Britain has been at war with Germany in the not too distant past and understand that many British people might have some reservations in this area. In the same way that I wouldn’t like to see the Irish team arriving on a BA flight – (especially with Willie Walsh in charge!) – given Ireland’s relationship with Britain over the past 800 years. These issues would have never entered my mind until I lived in England for a few years. This is not to say that I didn’t have a great time living in NW3 and never had any problems dealing with English people. But the English mindset in some cultural ways is very different to the rest of Europe, and that becomes acutely apparent when one lives and works in the country.

And since George Bush became President of the US, I probably wouldn’t want the Irish team to arrive from China on an American airline either. Prior to his Presidency, I would have treated the US and Europe on an equal footing.

.probe

[Nothing herein should be misinterpreted as support for the non-democratic Brussels based dictatorship of bureaucrats and politicians called the "European Union" as it is currently constituted.]

probe

Davidth88 wrote: »

( no idea what it's finances are like ).

http://www.lufthansa-financials.de/servlet/PB/menu/1027142_l2/index.html

.p

FlutterinBantam

probe wrote: »

There is no “national pride” difference in my mind between Aer Lingus, Lufthansa, Air France/KLM, SAS and similar. Just as I’d take a €50 banknote – I don’t care if it is a French or German or Italian or Irish one. I consider myself at home in Germany or France – as I do in Ireland. Equally I have no hesitation in criticising certain aspects of these countries.

I know that Britain has been at war with Germany in the not too distant past and understand that many British people might have some reservations in this area. In the same way that I wouldn’t like to see the Irish team arriving on a BA flight – (especially with Willie Walsh in charge!) – given Ireland’s relationship with Britain over the past 800 years. These issues would have never entered my mind until I lived in England for a few years. This is not to say that I didn’t have a great time living in NW3 and never had any problems dealing with English people. But the English mindset in some cultural ways is very different to the rest of Europe, and that becomes acutely apparent when one lives and works in the country.

And since George Bush became President of the US, I probably wouldn’t want the Irish team to arrive from China on an American airline either. Prior to his Presidency, I would have treated the US and Europe on an equal footing.

.probe

[Nothing herein should be misinterpreted as support for the non-democratic Brussels based dictatorship of bureaucrats and politicians called the "European Union" as it is currently constituted.]

Looks like Willie Walsh pissed in your chips captain.

Davidth88

There is no “national pride” difference in my mind between Aer Lingus, Lufthansa, Air France/KLM, SAS and similar.

Really ? Is that a commonly held view ?

Ok, perhaps being an expat/and British( English ) I see things differently

Although thinking about it I have always felt that Ireland was much more European than England

Ill get back in my box

diverdriver

Our 'national pride' is different, David. We have no glorious history to look back on. We mostly ignore the British side of our history and pretend that we were never British, only 'oppressed' by the English. Many seem to take pride in that and ignore the fact that we Irish supplied the soldiers, the generals and bureaucrats the English needed to colonise the empire.

We have no real role in international affairs so nothing to be proud of there. Our army fights no wars, thus we have no heroes. We had heroes from the war of independance but all that was tarnished by the activities of the former IRA.

We couldn't look at our flag with pride because it was used by these people as cover for their war. Not until the soccer team became successful was it possible to fly an Irish flag in public without being regarded with suspicion. When the soccer team was successful, we took some pride in that. Now that it is in decline again.

Too make it worse, one of the biggest and most successful airlines in Europe is Ryanair. The real flag carrier. But very un-Irish. I remember being at a continental airport looking at lines of Irish flagged aircraft lined up on the ramp. In from all over Europe. I thought to myself. 'I ought to be proud of this'. But they were all Ryanair and no one likes Ryanair.

Probe in a way symbolises that attitude. His embrace of his 'Europeaness' is in many ways an example of that. I can see where he's coming from. But of late, I have become prouder of being Irish because it no longer is associated with bombs, murder and terrorism. But with economic success.

So the Irish Olympic team had no qualms about flying Lufthansa. It's entirely typical of them. I have no pride in them either because apart from the boxers, most of them are losers and cheats it seems. Every Olympics, one of ours gets booted out for drugs. Lovely!:o

They probably got a good deal from LH. Simple as that.

probe

diverdriver wrote: »

Our 'national pride' is different, David. We have no glorious history to look back on. We mostly ignore the British side of our history and pretend that we were never British, only 'oppressed' by the English. Many seem to take pride in that and ignore the fact that we Irish supplied the soldiers, the generals and bureaucrats the English needed to colonise the empire.

We have no real role in international affairs so nothing to be proud of there. Our army fights no wars, thus we have no heroes. We had heroes from the war of independance but all that was tarnished by the activities of the former IRA.

We couldn't look at our flag with pride because it was used by these people as cover for their war. Not until the soccer team became successful was it possible to fly an Irish flag in public without being regarded with suspicion. When the soccer team was successful, we took some pride in that. Now that it is in decline again.

Too make it worse, one of the biggest and most successful airlines in Europe is Ryanair. The real flag carrier. But very un-Irish. I remember being at a continental airport looking at lines of Irish flagged aircraft lined up on the ramp. In from all over Europe. I thought to myself. 'I ought to be proud of this'. But they were all Ryanair and no one likes Ryanair.

Probe in a way symbolises that attitude. His embrace of his 'Europeaness' is in many ways an example of that. I can see where he's coming from. But of late, I have become prouder of being Irish because it no longer is associated with bombs, murder and terrorism. But with economic success.

So the Irish Olympic team had no qualms about flying Lufthansa. It's entirely typical of them. I have no pride in them either because apart from the boxers, most of them are losers and cheats it seems. Every Olympics, one of ours gets booted out for drugs. Lovely!:o

They probably got a good deal from LH. Simple as that.

That is not exactly where I am coming from! I live on the Continent, and the cultural ambiance there is similar to Ireland. People speak different languages etc - but the core human value systems are similar.

I have also lived in Southern England, and while we speak the same language, there are aspects of their core value systems - that feel alien to me. I would probably have similar problems living in the US or Australia or another Anglo Saxon country.

.probe

The_Conductor

Well- Aerlingus lost over EUR20m in the year to July, and is ontrack to make a loss of approx EUR104m for the whole year. They are a private company answerable in the first instance to their shareholders. They have a limited number of aircraft, having made a conscious decision, on financial grounds, to keep their aircraft availability as tight as possible. If they ground one, or reallocate a medium range aircraft for duties such as a Frankfurt stint- there are implications- both financial and also to the timetabling of all other routes.

I feel for everyone who has been delayed for long periods of time- particularly those on evening flights. I've been delayed for 4 or 5 hours at Brussels numerous times- ditto CDG and Lisbon. Its particularly difficult for parents with young children. We have to accept however, that this is the price to pay for chasing fares ever lower. Before anyone mentions Ryanair- just remember that they can randomly cancel flights if they haven't hit hit specific loads, or indeed if you've had the misfortune to have bought your ticket from a website other than theirs.

Its a race to the bottom, plain and simple. I remember paying almost IR£900 to fly one way to Copenhagen from Dublin 18 years ago. I can get the selfsame flight for less than EUR220 today. Obviously corners have been cut. Cross subsidising the Irish olympic team is one of those corners.