Wheel Rotation

antodeco

Hi All,
Want to rotate my wheels myself, and my understanding is that its meant to be front left - rear right, and front right - rear left. Is that what you are meant to do, or can you simply replace front to rear?

Reason Im asking is that my front tyres need replacing soon, and obviously its better to have better/new tyres on the rear. So if I replace the rear to the front, the rear ones are the replacements, so will be the new ones.

Any help appreciated.

Thanks


EDIT: Just thinking there, front left - rear right means that the thread is now facing the wrong way..

fletch

You will want to make sure that your tyres aren't directional as your theory won't work with directional tyres....

VH

front left to rear right etc if not directional
front left to rear left etc if directional

some tyres places use the word rotational instead of directional

peasant

Apart from watching out for rotational/directional tyres, the advice of swapping tyres from front left to rear right (and thereby turning them around) to my knowledge stems from the times of diagonal tyres. These days with radial tyres that practice is no longer beneficial, in fact it most likely causes higher wear as you are now rubbing the thread the wrong way.
Simply swapping front to rear should be fine.

antodeco

Cool, thanks for the responses. The tyres are eagle f1s so definitly directional. Front to rear should keep everything pointed in the right direction.

robbie99

I think that what you're supposed to do is to move the front wheels to the diagonally opposite corner and move the rear wheels to the front, staying on the same side.

The theory behind this is that after 4 rotations, a wheel will have spent time on every corner of the car, keeping the wear even.

gofaster_s13

If your using Goodyear Eagle F1's, I presume that it is a relativly powerful car, if so its not recommended that these tyres are rotated. Tyres bed into(for want of a better description) the position they are fitted in and by switching r/h front for r/h rear etc. you can noticably affect the handling of the car. Tyre rotation is useful on cars in which high performance handling is less of a factor than the cost of replacing tyres.

VH

peasant wrote: »

Apart from watching out for rotational/directional tyres, the advice of swapping tyres from front left to rear right (and thereby turning them around) to my knowledge stems from the times of diagonal tyres. These days with radial tyres that practice is no longer beneficial, in fact it most likely causes higher wear as you are now rubbing the thread the wrong way.
Simply swapping front to rear should be fine.

most modern car manuals state diagonal unless the tyres are directional

VH

good article
http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tiretech/techpage.jsp?techid=43

bbam

Interesting...
I find better results to keep better threaded tyres on front... Better able to direct car through standning water with more thread depth... when these wear down I move them to the rear and new tyres to the front...

Is there another train of thought on this ?

Cheers
bam

h3000

bbam wrote: »

Interesting...
I find better results to keep better threaded tyres on front... Better able to direct car through standning water with more thread depth... when these wear down I move them to the rear and new tyres to the front...

Is there another train of thought on this ?

Cheers
bam

I'm with you on this one I always keep the better tyres at the front. I find it much easier to control oversteer than understeer.

Eoin

Does that not depend on FWD?

I just rotate old tires with new ones. Not an area I want to skimp on.

Seth Brundle

fletch wrote: »

You will want to make sure that your tyres aren't directional as your theory won't work with directional tyres....

...also check the dimensions between front and rear - on my car the fronts are 235/45/17 whereas the rears are slightly wider at 255/40/17. Mine are also directional so they cannot be rotated at all.

Have a read of this if you need info on tyres - rotation is discussed almost 2/3 down on page 2.

VH

kbannon wrote: »

...also check the dimensions between front and rear - on my car the fronts are 235/45/17 whereas the rears are slightly wider at 255/40/17.

thats common with rwd cars but fwd tend to be all the same size

-Chris-

bbam wrote: »

Interesting...
I find better results to keep better threaded tyres on front... Better able to direct car through standning water with more thread depth... when these wear down I move them to the rear and new tyres to the front...

Is there another train of thought on this ?

Cheers
bam

h3000 wrote: »

I'm with you on this one I always keep the better tyres at the front. I find it much easier to control oversteer than understeer.

Better tyres on front always because the front steers and brakes - the things you need to do to avoid trouble.

If you need to brake heavily, the weight transfer forward makes the condition of the front tyres far more important than the condition of the rears.

-Chris-

kbannon wrote: »

Have a read of this if you need info on tyres - rotation is discussed almost 2/3 down on page 2.

Thanks kbannon, good info. Could probably be stickied imho.

Has anyone ever started a "handy links that will answer all your questions" sticky?

VeVeX

AudiChris wrote: »

Better tyres on front always because the front steers and brakes - the things you need to do to avoid trouble.

If you need to brake heavily, the weight transfer forward makes the condition of the front tyres far more important than the condition of the rears.

All major tyre manufacturers recommend new tyres are to be fitted to the rear.

http://www.michelin.co.uk/uk/auto/auto_cons_bib_pqr_neuf.jsp

Its a good job Audi Ireland dont endorse your comments



.

VH

AudiChris wrote: »

Has anyone ever started a "handy links that will answer all your questions" sticky?

same topics over and over again makes the place look busy

Mr.David

AudiChris wrote: »

Better tyres on front always because the front steers and brakes - the things you need to do to avoid trouble.

If you need to brake heavily, the weight transfer forward makes the condition of the front tyres far more important than the condition of the rears.

No!!

This is such a common myth. You should ALWAYS have the BETTER tyres on the REAR for a FWD or RWD car. Think about it. Michelin state:

New tyres fitted in front :
- The behavior of the car will change, because the front / rear balance will be reversed.
The driver, used to a car with less grip at the front, will therefore be taken unawares.
- On a slippery road, the rear will lose traction before the front of the vehicle.
The driver will have no chance of controlling the rear, and will be tempted to accelerate further, which will amplify the spin effect. Only an experienced driver will be able to recover from this dangerous situation...


New tyres fitted at the back :
- The handling of the vehicle will be similar to that known by the driver before the tyre change, because the traction balance will be the same.
- Rear traction will be better, and the driver will be able to control and steer their vehicle without a problem by decelerating and turning the steering wheel in the direction of the bend.


So unless you consider yourself Colin McRae........

-Chris-

Mr.David wrote: »

No!!

This is such a common myth. You should ALWAYS have the BETTER tyres on the REAR for a FWD or RWD car. Think about it. Michelin state:

I stand corrected, as do my college lecturers, but fair 'nuff.

VeVeX wrote: »

Its a good job Audi Ireland dont endorse your comments

I'm not sure if I'll even endorse my comments anymore...

voxpop

Hold on - so if you have a FWD car and the front tires need replacing but the backs are fine, you cant just buy new front tires ?

Mr.David

voxpop wrote: »

Hold on - so if you have a FWD car and the front tires need replacing but the backs are fine, you cant just buy new front tires ?

Well then you should move the rears to the front and put the new ones on the back!

-Chris-

According to Michelin, you buy new tyres and put them on the rear, rotating your current rear tyres onto the front.

Edit: beaten to it by Mr.D

Zube

Mr.David wrote: »

New tyres fitted in front :
- On a slippery road, the rear will lose traction before the front of the vehicle.

In a FWD car, if you put the worse tyres on the front, you will lose traction earlier than if you put the better ones at the front, and when you do, you will lose steering and brakes as opposed to having the tail slide a bit. You may regret this in an emergency stop.

The stated reason for this advice is that the handling of the car will change less, which seems to mean that the car won't change from neutral/understeer when the fronts are worn to oversteer when the new tyres are fitted and the fronts are better than the rears. However, if drivers are not able to handle a skid, giving then advice which makes the car skid at lower speeds seems a bit of a mixed blessing.

Mr.David

Zube wrote: »

In a FWD car, if you put the worse tyres on the front, you will lose traction earlier than if you put the better ones at the front, and when you do, you will lose steering and brakes as opposed to having the tail slide a bit. You may regret this in an emergency stop.

The stated reason for this advice is that the handling of the car will change less, which seems to mean that the car won't change from neutral/understeer when the fronts are worn to oversteer when the new tyres are fitted and the fronts are better than the rears. However, if drivers are not able to handle a skid, giving then advice which makes the car skid at lower speeds seems a bit of a mixed blessing.

Worse tyres on front means losing traction sooner at the FRONT, but if you put them on the rear you will loose traction there. So its more a case of balance than tractive limit. this only really applies to a wet/greasy road anyway as tread depth has minimal impact on a dry surface. So if you are cornering in the rain on a greasy country road do you really want the back to step out on a FWD car? On a RWD car with a suspension architecture and tuning setup biased towards an oversteer balance this may be fine, but on a FWD car with (very probably) a stone age basic rear axle and suspension tuned for understeer this is bad news. The car may well oversteer in a manner which is completely uncontrollable and simply 'snap' wide through a corner.

Understeer by comparison is engineered into a car because it is safe and requires practically no driving skill to correct!

Understeer is for the masses, oversteer is for people who are skilled drivers.

h3000

I will still put the better tyres on the front of my car. I always prefer to have better traction on the front of my car.

Mr.David

h3000 wrote: »

I will still put the better tyres on the front of my car. I always prefer to have better traction on the front of my car.

What car do you drive?

h3000

Mr.David wrote: »

What car do you drive?

5th Gen Honda Prelude.

I have had it for the last 3 years and I have expierienced unintentional/unexpected oversteer once. I find understeer much more common on our wet/greasy/muddy/bad cambered roads.

Zube

Mr.David wrote: »

Worse tyres on front means losing traction sooner at the FRONT, but if you put them on the rear you will loose traction there.

Just to clarify, in a FWD car, worse tyres on the front means you loose traction sooner, full stop. The front tyres are doing the bulk of the work of steering, braking and accellerating, so they will lose traction before rear tyres worn to the same degree would.

Michelin's advice means people will skid more often. They prefer this to skidding less often with oversteer involved, as us FWD drivers aren't able for it.

I plan to continue to put the best tyres on the front, although I change them before the legal limit anyhow, and the differences are marginal, I'd say.

neosmaster

Just Buy 4 new tyres......Problem solved

VH

Mr.David wrote: »

oversteer is for people who are skilled drivers.

only on race tracks - snap oversteer especially in a front engined car is a disaster

antodeco

neosmaster wrote: »

Just Buy 4 new tyres......Problem solved

The rear ones are near on perfect at the minute. I could get several more months out of them, whilst I wont from the front. At €200 per tyre, Im not wasting €400.

Mr.David

VH wrote: »

only on race tracks - snap oversteer especially in a front engined car is a disaster

my point entirely for heeding the advice of every single major tyre manufacturer....and fitting new tyres to the REAR!!!!!

Mr.David

antodeco wrote: »

The rear ones are near on perfect at the minute. I could get several more months out of them, whilst I wont from the front. At €200 per tyre, Im not wasting €400.

Then put the rears to the front and fit the new ones to the rear.

antodeco

Mr.David wrote: »

Then put the rears to the front and fit the new ones to the rear.

:rolleyes: Read the actual start of the thread!