Vehicle in NI use in South

mumhaabu

I am coming close to purchasing a new fleet of vehicles for my company and because of the new crippling taxation in affect by the Green Party coupled to the crippling Co2 based VRT I have come to conclusion that it is no longer feasible to operate the fleet in the Republic of Ireland as Motor tax would cost nearly €15 to €20k per year.

While my company is based and operates in the ROI I now plan to form a new company in Northern Ireland and buy all the vehicles and tax them in Northern Ireland and pay all associated taxes to her majesty's government. As the business will operate on both sides of the border I can see no problem with it except we do not own any property in Northern Ireland, I wonder would setting up a PO Box with Royal mail suffice? otherwise we would have to setup some office which is not ideal.

The green party have this country ruined I sadly had to make over 50 workers redundent in the last 3 months and have now relocated these jobs to the Czech Republic all because of the criplling taxation that exsists in this country. I now am faced with yellow regs for my Irish company due to the criplling Motor Taxation and tolls we face. You can only push taxation so far and as a direct result of the Green Party we have lost a lot of money and has the economy due to our losses.

The Republics loss in Northern Ireland's gain, If I can save €20,000 in Motor Taxation and tolls then I will do it, it is all down to money and to f*ck with the Enviornement, Global Warming is a farce.

Wishbone Ash

I don't think it that simple. Didn't Dukes Transport try it a few years ago but weren't allowed (the other way around though).

Seth Brundle

You would need to check with Revenue but AIUI people working and living down here cannot drive a non RoI registered vehicle!

Ferris

mumhaabu wrote: »

I am coming close to purchasing a new fleet of vehicles for my company and because of the new crippling taxation in affect by the Green Party coupled to the crippling Co2 based VRT I have come to conclusion that it is no longer feasible to operate the fleet in the Republic of Ireland as Motor tax would cost nearly €15 to €20k per year.

While my company is based and operates in the ROI I now plan to form a new company in Northern Ireland and buy all the vehicles and tax them in Northern Ireland and pay all associated taxes to her majesty's government. As the business will operate on both sides of the border I can see no problem with it except we do not own any property in Northern Ireland, I wonder would setting up a PO Box with Royal mail suffice? otherwise we would have to setup some office which is not ideal.

The green party have this country ruined I sadly had to make over 50 workers redundent in the last 3 months and have now relocated these jobs to the Czech Republic all because of the criplling taxation that exsists in this country. I now am faced with yellow regs for my Irish company due to the criplling Motor Taxation and tolls we face. You can only push taxation so far and as a direct result of the Green Party we have lost a lot of money and has the economy due to our losses.

The Republics loss in Northern Ireland's gain, If I can save €20,000 in Motor Taxation and tolls then I will do it, it is all down to money and to f*ck with the Enviornement, Global Warming is a farce.

Its a legal requirement to have a premises in the north to do this. Also the vehicles have to spend 50% of the time in the north. They would also have to be insured up there. I reakon what you'd save in tax you'd lose on insurance (more expensive up north), higher fuel costs and the rent on a depot up north.

ART6

I came across this a few years ago with an RoI company I worked for. We had offices in the UK and our main works in RoI. We bought all of our trucks etc in the UK and used them here and all over Europe. However, as an earlier poster says, it is illegal for an RoI based employee to drive a foreign reg vehicle here. So we were faced with the situation that our drivers could use the vehicles anywhere else in Europe, but couldn't use them here even to return to the works for a few days. We couldn't use them at all for work in RoI. The only way out of it following threats from Customs was to register them here and pay the VRT. Then, as RoI reg vehicles, we could use them in the UK and elsewhere without restriction.

It's another example in my view of the scandalous rip offs that our government is so good at, but it was going on for years before Gormley & Co got in on the act.

Wishbone Ash

The OP doesn't state what type of fleet vehicles but AFAIK annual motor tax on trucks is more expensive in the UK.

craichoe

They have to be registered wherever they are normally used.

ninty9er

^^ What he said. Is it really necessary to buy vehicles that cost €2k per year to tax?? most rep-mobiles are in the €290-€430 bracket.

Also be aware that Alastair Darling introduced the same taxation system as the ROI in March's UK Budget, which will be subject to fluctuations the same as ours.

Anyhow these changes apply only to passenger vehicles. You could also lose money on your year end FX translation in your accounts.

lynchie

kbannon wrote: »

You would need to check with Revenue but AIUI people working and living down here cannot drive a non RoI registered vehicle!

True.. its illegal for an Irish resident to drive a non Irish registered vehicle. Granted, the Gardaí don't seem too bothered about it, but if revenue find they are losing potential monies i'm sure they will hit you with this law.

VH

can you not just play the game and buy low co2 vehicles - a fleet of civic hybrids wouldnt look any different to any other civic saloon but afaik they get into the lowest bracket - bmws diesels do very well - all low co2 etc

mumhaabu

Wishbone Ash wrote: »

The OP doesn't state what type of fleet vehicles but AFAIK annual motor tax on trucks is more expensive in the UK.

It will mostly be a mixture of BMWs and Mercedes higher end stuff but I will also be going for VAG TDI's for the plebs down the ladder. What I was trying to achieve was the high tax on the luxury models. I have a pretty good budget to play around with so it will be fun! However the company ethos always has been to cut costs and avoiding negative motor taxation is definetly part of this.

Ireland is a complete joke and I can see why so many people are leaving and with the current business climate this is the last big spend we'll be making until 2011 at the earliest. Please bring back the days when the Progressive Democrats had clout.

Saving the environment is a big consideration of ours just simply not at our expense and I have no intention of changing any thing we do because of short sighted Gormley.

VH

mumhaabu wrote: »

It will mostly be a mixture of BMWs

you're not making much sense as VRT/tax went down on most BMWs - why don't you just buy them

if you used your imagination you could actually save money under the new VRT/tax scheme

ninty9er

mumhaabu wrote: »

Saving the environment is a big consideration of ours just simply not at our expense and I have no intention of changing any thing we do because of short sighted Gormley.

A) you're contradicting yourself
what has any of this got to do with that fool?

You can save money by buying something like a fleet of GS450hs as it's one of few cars that could be classed "luxury" that fall inside (186g/km) the cut-off point for capital allowances @ 191 g/km.

Also true of BMW 535d 281BHP @ 28% VRT vs 30% last year and €600 tax as opposed to €1,591.

Put plainly
OPEN YOUR EYES!!

Fishtits

mumhaabu wrote: »

It will mostly be a mixture of BMWs and Mercedes higher end stuff but I will also be going for VAG TDI's for the plebs down the ladder. What I was trying to achieve was the high tax on the luxury models. I have a pretty good budget to play around with so it will be fun! However the company ethos always has been to cut costs and avoiding negative motor taxation is definetly part of this.

Ireland is a complete joke and I can see why so many people are leaving and with the current business climate this is the last big spend we'll be making until 2011 at the earliest. Please bring back the days when the Progressive Democrats had clout.

Saving the environment is a big consideration of ours just simply not at our expense and I have no intention of changing any thing we do because of short sighted Gormley.

Troll... with an axe to grind.

stepbar

lynchie wrote: »

True.. its illegal for an Irish resident to drive a non Irish registered vehicle. Granted, the Gardaí don't seem too bothered about it, but if revenue find they are losing potential monies i'm sure they will hit you with this law.

Even if said person is employed by a company in the North?

Wertz

So OP, your company is willing to roll a few hundred K on a fleet of executive German cars for use in furthering it's profits through doing the majority of it's business in this country, but they wish to pay some of the resulting taxes to another country?
It is also seemingly willing to pay the cost of a premises to further it's ends? That's great. The company is willing to fork out cash hand over fist to everyone but the Irish exchequer.
Your company needs to get it's priorities straight...it either wants to do business here or it doesn't.
If it does it plays by the rules the rest of us do and pays it's way...cut the choices/spec levels/models in fleet cars to a realistic level and allow your choices to be governed by total tax spend on the fleet over it's life. As others have said above, with the right choices you might actually save some money...
I'm sure were it to register the fleet in the UK, it'd of course be paying the inflated price to fuel them in the UK too...oh it wouldn't? Ah of course, it's cheaper down here. Border hopping tax avoidance FTW eh?

mumhaabu

I personally don't give a toss about Global Warming and was hoping to buy big petrol engined cars with serious grunt. Company wise caring for the environment is obviously a consideration, (Every Company is Pro-Enviornement today it is just good Business practice) although we exist to make money not save the planet! Despite this I have added one Prius and two flexi fuel Ford Focus's which run on Ethanol for some of my colleagues, they are cheaper and have the Aura of greenwashing about them.

My axe to grind is how Gormley has slapped a tax of two grand on these luxury cars which will do less mileage and probably emit less than the the Prius and two Focus's which could clock up 30-35,000miles in the next 12 months.

ninty9er wrote:

what has any of this got to do with that fool?

You can save money by buying something like a fleet of GS450hs as it's one of few cars that could be classed "luxury" that fall inside (186g/km) the cut-off point for capital allowances @ 191 g/km.

Also true of BMW 535d 281BHP @ 28% VRT vs 30% last year and €600 tax as opposed to €1,591.

My plan was to go large engined petrol as well lets face it Diesel will always be Diesel and a large Diesel engine offers very little extra MPG coupled with higher Diesel prices and higher purchase costs it doesn't seem worth it. Especially as I was more inclined towards the 7 Series. Two Range Rovers were to be initially on the list but were cut in favour of the luxury saloons.

Gormley = Fool = me & you on the same wavelength, he has made my job trickier but hey thats how I make my money. I am planning on a more modest e90 320 Diesel as my own as I simply hate trying to park some of these other cars I will be ordering.

I'd say my Northern Ireland plan is out the window unless we open an office there soon, I will instead have to try lower costs somewhere else it seems.

Thanks for the help gents!

VH

sorry - but it sounds like you want it all

switch to diesel and/or hybrids and you'll save money

ninty9er

mumhaabu wrote: »

I personally don't give a toss about Global Warming and was hoping to buy big petrol engined cars with serious grunt. Company wise caring for the environment is obviously a consideration, (Every Company is Pro-Enviornement today it is just good Business practice) although we exist to make money not save the planet! Despite this I have added one Prius and two flexi fuel Ford Focus's which run on Ethanol for some of my colleagues, they are cheaper and have the Aura of greenwashing about them.

My axe to grind is how Gormley has slapped a tax of two grand on these luxury cars which will do less mileage and probably emit less than the the Prius and two Focus's which could clock up 30-35,000miles in the next 12 months.



My plan was to go large engined petrol as well lets face it Diesel will always be Diesel and a large Diesel engine offers very little extra MPG coupled with higher Diesel prices and higher purchase costs it doesn't seem worth it. Especially as I was more inclined towards the 7 Series. Two Range Rovers were to be initially on the list but were cut in favour of the luxury saloons.

Gormley = Fool = me & you on the same wavelength, he has made my job trickier but hey thats how I make my money. I am planning on a more modest e90 320 Diesel as my own as I simply hate trying to park some of these other cars I will be ordering.

I'd say my Northern Ireland plan is out the window unless we open an office there soon, I will instead have to try lower costs somewhere else it seems.

Thanks for the help gents!

The 530i has less grunt than the 535d and is also in the same tax band. Put simply though, if you can afford the Range Rover you can afford the €2k which is actually only €409 more per year anyway = less than €1.15 per day.

How to cut costs...don't give pay rises, offer a slacker week/get the govt to pay for them to go to college/courses 2 days a week(depends on the business), business is slack at the moment in general so you could cut the wage bill and let them have nice cars instead of big pay packets.

ninty9er

mumhaabu wrote: »

My plan was to go large engined petrol as well lets face it Diesel will always be Diesel and a large Diesel engine offers very little extra MPG coupled with higher Diesel prices and higher purchase costs it doesn't seem worth it. Especially as I was more inclined towards the 7 Series. Two Range Rovers were to be initially on the list but were cut in favour of the luxury saloons.

Higher purchase costs have all but flown out the window with the flying pig;) Shop around for petrols vs diesels and you'll find they're in lower VRT bands=lower prices.

Wishbone Ash

Fishtits wrote: »

Troll... with an axe to grind.

+1

Churchy

Fishtits wrote: »

Troll... with an axe to grind.

+2 , I mean who refers to their employees as plebs.

Zube

mumhaabu wrote: »

Ireland is a complete joke and I can see why so many people are leaving

It's weird how this guy sounds exactly like an 80s PD Thatcher-lover about taxes, but obviously wasn't out of nappies at a time when Ireland still had serious emigration issues. I'm guessing his Dad has been droning on at the dinner table about Dessie O'Malley for the last 20 years.

Ferris

Churchy wrote: »

+2 , I mean who refers to their employees as plebs.

Yeah I prefer 'the grunts from sector 7G' or 'the great unwashed myself'. :rolleyes:

galwaytt

ninty9er wrote: »

........ Put simply though, if you can afford the Range Rover you can afford the €2k which is actually only €409 more per year anyway = less than €1.15 per day.

Sorry, but that's not correct. It also presumes that it's o.k. to put with the shafting by the likes of that orifice, Gormley..........

The reason I say it's not correct is because, anyone worth their salt - including lease or finance companies, for fleets - will calculate their rates on the lifetime costs of the vehicle. The end of lease sale value of a 2k p.a. tax car will be..........virtually zero. So, depreciation is much, much higher, which means that extra depreciation will be amortised into your repayments. And that, I can wager, will be significantly more than the 'only' €409 p.a. you mention.

Nobody in business (who wants to stay in business !) would elect to pay over the odds for a vehicle, with higher p.a. tax, lower resale/trade value at end of life (4yrs the OP says).........and 'only see' an extra €409. It'd be interesting to do the long-hand maths on it to see what it work out at..........


btw, +++1 on troll !

lynchie

stepbar wrote: »

Even if said person is employed by a company in the North?

Cant find the exact text for it now but AFAIK its phrased such that no Irish resident can drive a vehicle that is not registered in the state. Working in NI does not constitute being a non resident unless you are living there for 185+ days a year. Travelling up and down every day does not get around it either.

Dave147

+3 for the troll

Can't say I agree about the MPG, the ratio for MPG with a tdi compared to the price of the diesel is still a fair bit better..
I.e. My remapped tdi vs my dads 1.8t - putting out roughly the same power, what I lack in bhp I make up for in torque, same comfort but hey I get 40mpg city driving, 50 motorway. He gets 23 in the city and 32 motorway. It bloody well adds up!

/hijack

Jip

+ another on the troll. He's a bigger fool than Gormely. Wouldn't want this guy running anything in my company, doesn't understand basis economics.

ninty9er

There's a lot of people here that don't understand how to run a company....as shown by the lease comment.:rolleyes:

Mc-BigE

I hope the OPs 50 Ex workers aren't looking at this thread and seeing how the companies "cut-backs" are being spent on luxury high end Mercs and BMWs.

jimmycrackcorm

I don't really want to attempt to put this thread off topic, but the OP has referenced several times to the amount of taxation in the south. You can be quite sure though that he is happy enough to take advantage of the lower corporation tax south of the border and also the lower fuel taxes.

In direct relation to the question, the customs are quite active in this area and I know of someone who was asked to produce substantial documentation to prove the business link in the north. A P.O. box will not suffice whatsoever.