Derrick Nelson Setup: Acoustic Guitars

Zangetsu

I'm getting paid in a week and I think I might treat my baby to a once over. I just wanted to know what I should get done, I meen what would be a FULL setup on an acoustic? The lady I was talking to at Danvel said a setup can go up to 200 euro.

What does he do that costs more then my weekly escourt?

Eoin Madsen

Zangetsu wrote: »

What does he do that costs more then my weekly escourt?

Well, absolutely anything that the guitar needs to have done to make it better. He makes guitars, so there's very little he won't be able to do if asked.

For my bass, last year, I got some neck refinishing work, a couple of pickup wires resoldered and switched around, and the action and intonation adjusted. He did it for 130 euros, and I had to leave it in for 2 or 3 weeks as far as I remember.

It'll be going back to him shortly for some more refinishing and another set up. While I was in the place initially showing him the bass and talking about what I wanted, he did a very quick setup on it (went away with it for literally 5 minutes) and it played better right there than I managed to get it after messing around with it for weeks.

Zangetsu

Hmmm, I like where this is going... 3 weeks will be hard to deal with though

Dord

It's a long time but well worth it IMO.

Zangetsu

I can just take a picture of it and glue it to another guitar, does that count as cheating :P

DublinWriter

He's well worth twice the money.

ball ox

DublinWriter wrote: »

He's well worth twice the money.

I wouldnt go that far. He's good but remember lads, its just a setup.... Personally I think over €100 is very pricey for a setup considering how long it takes and the manual work involved. I'll sing his praises in terms of how good a craftsman he is, did a great job on my tele which needed re-fretting and I'd pay the same price again but as far as setups go I think he's gettin away with murder. Must do a couple of those a day. I'm no mathamagician but
1 couple X a couple a week @ 150 a pop = lots of money. And thats before building any freakin guitars! Just seems a wee bit exploitative (if thats even a word)

fguihen

ball ox wrote: »

I'm no mathamagician but
1 couple X a couple a week @ 150 a pop = lots of money. And thats before building any freakin guitars! Just seems a wee bit exploitative (if thats even a word)

Strange that a man who makes a living out of building/setting up guitars would want to make lots of money. yip, should totally be doing it for nothing!!

Seriously though,I agree with you to a point, 100 quid for a setup is very steep, but if hes the best in the business then thats what your paying for. i mean bring your guitar to any lackey in a music shop who pretends they know how to set up a guitar and they will charge you 40 quid for something you could hve done better yourself.

A child can paint a picture with the same content as a picture painted by a true artist, but think of the quality difference.

Eoin Madsen

ball ox wrote: »

I wouldnt go that far. He's good but remember lads, its just a setup.... Personally I think over €100 is very pricey for a setup considering how long it takes and the manual work involved. I'll sing his praises in terms of how good a craftsman he is, did a great job on my tele which needed re-fretting and I'd pay the same price again but as far as setups go I think he's gettin away with murder. Must do a couple of those a day. I'm no mathamagician but
1 couple X a couple a week @ 150 a pop = lots of money. And thats before building any freakin guitars! Just seems a wee bit exploitative (if thats even a word)

I got a whole lot more than a set-up for less than 150 euros.

Rigsby

fguihen wrote: »

but if hes the best in the business then thats what your paying for.

You make it seem like there's 100's ( good or bad ) of luthiers in Dublin ( or Ireland for that matter). AFAIK there are about three or four reputable techs in Dublin. Therein lies the price problem. The reason he is so expensive ( apart from being a 1st class craftsman ) is that he has a monopoly on the buisness.

I've said it before here, but it's worth repeating : I cant for the life of me understand why the capital city of a country that boasts one of the biggest rock bands in the world, and has a world wide reputation as a music country has only one person of the standard of Derrick Nelson.

ball ox

Rigsby wrote: »

The reason he is so expensive ( apart from being a 1st class craftsman ) is that he has a monopoly on the buisness.

Thats my point in a nutshell, a setup is a setup. It's not rocket science and it's not okay to charge that much money just because no one else is reputable enough to live up to Derek Nelson. Spend €150 on a chromatic tuner, a feeler gauge and an allen key and go nuts. Your better off learning how to service your own instruments than spending a fortune getting them tweaked every couple of months by a luthier.

Zangetsu

I wouldn't subject my only acoustic to the horrors of one of my setups lol...

Eoin Madsen

ball ox wrote: »

Thats my point in a nutshell, a setup is a setup. It's not rocket science and it's not okay to charge that much money just because no one else is reputable enough to live up to Derek Nelson. Spend €150 on a chromatic tuner, a feeler gauge and an allen key and go nuts. Your better off learning how to service your own instruments than spending a fortune getting them tweaked every couple of months by a luthier.

I don't agree. There are good setups and bad setups. I've set up plenty of guitars but I'm still not as good at it as Derrick Nelson, and I'm not interested in spending time becoming that good at it. It's worth learning how it works, but at the end of the day, I'm a musician, not a luthier. There's more to getting a really good set up than just tweaking till you get it right - it's not like tuning a string. There are more than two variables involved, so you could adjust away indefinitely and never get it perfect. I can do a decent job, but my guitars are for playing music, not for DIY experimentation. At the end of the day, a decent job is not good enough. Derrick Nelson does not charge as much as 150 euros for a "simple" setup, but even if he did I'd still be happy to pay that for the quality of service he provides.

fguihen

Eoin Madsen wrote: »

That's daft. There are good setups and bad setups. I've set up plenty of guitars but I'm still not as good at it as Derrick Nelson, and I'm not interested in spending time becoming that good at it. I'm a musician, not a luthier. There's more to getting a really good set up than just tweaking till you get it right - it's not like tuning a string. There are more than two variables involved, so you could adjust away indefinitely and never get it perfect. I can do a decent job, but my guitars are for playing music, not for DIY experimentation. At the end of the day, a decent job is not good enough. Derrick Nelson does not charge as much as 150 euros for a "simple" setup, but even if he did I'd still be happy to pay that for the quality of service he provides.

Thats fair enough, but most people cant really justify that much cash for a setup that needs to be done in a few months again , or even sooner if you break enough strings.

And I dont class doing your own set up as DIY in the conventional sense. its part and parcel of owning a guitar, if your really into it. Its good for someone to know their instrument inside out. and i assume also you spend a lot of time practicing. its just as important to practic setting up your instrument. maby you cant beat this guys setup, but if you can come close, then why fork out all that cash?

This isnt an arguement or a statement, its just my preference to get to know anything i dedicate that much time to, and also not to throw money around frivolously. each to their own eh!

Eoin Madsen

fguihen wrote: »

Thats fair enough, but most people cant really justify that much cash for a setup that needs to be done in a few months again , or even sooner if you break enough strings.

You shouldn't need to set up the guitar again after breaking strings unless you replace them with strings of a different gauge.

fguihen wrote: »

And I dont class doing your own set up as DIY in the conventional sense. its part and parcel of owning a guitar, if your really into it.

Well, that's purely a matter of opinion, but I would strongly disagree. Servicing your shower unit is not part and parcel of owning a shower unit.

fguihen wrote: »

Its good for someone to know their instrument inside out. and i assume also you spend a lot of time practicing. its just as important to practic setting up your instrument.

Of course it's good to be familiar with it, but where do you draw the line? Do you know how your amp works? I could rebuild mine from the ground up. But this is an unrelated area of interest. As a player, it is absolutely not as important as knowing how to use the amp.

fguihen wrote: »

maby you cant beat this guys setup, but if you can come close, then why fork out all that cash?

Because "close" is not perfect. This is a guitar for playing, not a toy for toying with.

Eoin Madsen

There's being economic, and then there's needless penny-pinching. Music is what I do, so I've spent a whole of time considering the most effective use of money in terms of cost : quality of output. That has to include effective use of time, because my own time costs me as well. The whole DIY philosophy is ultimately a fallacy, because the time you spend getting good at these things is time you could have spent earning money to pay a professional to do it better (plus change to spend on other things).

Spend time learning how to set up a guitar because you want to know how to set up a guitar, or because you enjoy setting up guitars - don't do it because you're under the illusion that it will save you a whole lot of money. At the end of the day, it won't, because - unless you're happy with having a substandard setup - you'll spend enough time at it to completely obviate the saving.

You can spot the ones who are stingy about their music, because their sound sucks. I'm not talking about throwing away money on absurdly over-priced services or equipment. But there comes a point where, if you're serious about it at all, you have to stop thinking with your wallet.

ball ox

or you could spend time learning to set up a guitar simply to be able to set it up the way you want it.

Rigsby

I dont think anyone is questioning the benefits of going to someone of the calibre of Nelson. What they are questioning is the cost. My point was that he has a monopoly (not his fault I know) on the buisness. If there were more people of his calibre doing this work you can bet your most expensive guitar that he would be cheaper............ plus your guitar would not be with him for up to four weeks. All pie in the sky I know, but this is what it boils down to.

fasty

I think it's worth it if the job is done right. As I get better at the guitar I'm starting to appreciate the difference between a badly set up guitar and a good one.

My Tele came with an okay setup. I raised the action a little and spent ages trying to get the intonation right and the whole thing just put me off the guitar for weeks. It sounds great now, but I'd love to adjust it some more and put heavier strings on it but I just can't face mucking around with an allen key and tuner all over again.

The only thing that's putting me off getting a pro setup right now is that I'd be without my guitar for a couple of weeks!

Eoin Madsen

Rigsby wrote: »

I dont think anyone is questioning the benefits of going to someone of the calibre of Nelson.

Well, I'm not so sure about that. :pac:

Rigsby wrote: »

What they are questioning is the cost. My point was that he has a monopoly (not his fault I know) on the buisness. If there were more people of his calibre doing this work you can bet your most expensive guitar that he would be cheaper............ plus your guitar would not be with him for up to four weeks. All pie in the sky I know, but this is what it boils down to.

I'd agree with that. The lack of ability of most of the people around who are doing set ups is the reason that Derrick Nelson is in such demand. In fairness, he could probably be charging more, do less work, and make the same money if he wanted to.

Notably here, the question of the actual cost of a straight forward and simple set up by Derrick Nelson has not even been answered. 150 euros keeps getting thrown around despite the fact that I, for one, got a set up, refinishing work on the neck, and some electronics work done, all for about 130 euros. The setup itself would have been the smallest part of that job. But I would expect a reasonable baseline charge to cover insurance etc. anyway. Frankly, for a highly specialised service, in Ireland of all places, this was absurdly cheap.

They're not going to get tied to a phone quote for a setup without seeing the guitar first, nobody with any sense would. But after he looked at my guitar I got an exact quote before he did any work at all, and a date for when it would be finished if I went for it.

My suggestion to the OP would be to call them, drop up, talk to Derrick Nelson. Before agreeing to part with a cent, you'll have a much clearer idea of what you're paying for and why. If at that point you'd rather save the price of a few pints so you can spend as much time trying to set up your guitar than playing it, then fair enough. :pac:

Dord

Look, it depends what is wrong with your instrument. There's no "set fee". You get a quotation before you leave, and can decide whether to take it or not.

Zangetsu

Already been on to them, heading down on sunday. Can't wait to get this done, the guitar is a beauty but the shop I got it from did absolutely no setup on it as far as i can tell... I'll miss her but its best in the long run!

Eoin Madsen

Zangetsu wrote: »

Already been on to them, heading down on sunday. Can't wait to get this done, the guitar is a beauty but the shop I got it from did absolutely no setup on it as far as i can tell... I'll miss her but its best in the long run!

You mean I did all that ranting and you were already convinced?? Son of a--:pac:

Zangetsu

I'm bored in work... This is like TV to me! Back to ranting, mao!

Rigsby

Zangetsu wrote: »

Already been on to them, heading down on sunday.

Sunday !! :eek: Poor Derrick must have to work on Sundays to make ends meet ! :P

Dord

Rigsby wrote: »

Sunday !! :eek: Poor Derrick must have to work on Sundays to make ends meet ! :P

He's usually in on Sundays for a few hours after lunchtime.

SuperGrover

I brought a fretless bass to him one time. Worked fine but needed some work here and there.

He quoted me a price but ended up doing far more than specified, beautiful work, and only charged me the original quote price.

For a basic neck tweak / setup, Musician Inc in Drury St. can look after that cheaper.

Zangetsu

I've had guitars setup in musician, they didn't even do the intonation, waste of money...

Alanstrainor

Another massive +1 for Derrick, brought a telecaster in to have a vintage bigsby installed, which he provided, charged me 220, for bigsby + installation and a savage setup. I think he felt sorry for me:o

sei046

Packie McDermott.One of Irelands finest players and does unreal work on guitars. He always surprises me with whatever I give him. He goes well beyond his duties and makes sure everything is perfect, AND! he is very very cheap

paul_allen

200 quid for a set up, what a rip off!
I had my strat done in steamboat music in limerick couple of months back and it cost like 40 including strings and that was everything, action, intonation, checking electronics, restring, clean and it was very well done.
200 is way too pricey, you should expect to be 22 new frets with that.

Alanstrainor

In fairness, the 200 was a ballpark figure, the actual price he charges are usually less, more like the 130-150 mark. But i think you'd have to get a guitar setup there to really appreciate the work he does. He sorted the electronics, nut, and installed a vintage bigsby on my telecaster for 220, including the price of the bigsby. And the guitar was absolutely perfect when i got it. Complete setup. It's well worth it

paul_allen

Maybe you're right, but i've seen a set up done before and theirs only 40 minutes work at the most in a set up. Alot of things are overpriced nowadays, and people are being made fools out of. Like i picked my sister up a pair of boots from the states for €110 and a shop in dublin is charging €385 for them. But maybe he is the guitar tech god?

Alanstrainor

paul_allen wrote: »

But maybe he is the guitar tech god?

There's a reason the likes on the Edge get his guitars set up there!:pac::pac::pac:

Dord

Alanstrainor wrote: »

In fairness, the 200 was a ballpark figure, the actual price he charges are usually less, more like the 130-150 mark. But i think you'd have to get a guitar setup there to really appreciate the work he does. He sorted the electronics, nut, and installed a vintage bigsby on my telecaster for 220, including the price of the bigsby. And the guitar was absolutely perfect when i got it. Complete setup. It's well worth it

That's a great price, considering that Bigsby's cost €100+.
You could easily end up with a pile of poop after a bad bigsby install.

Dord

Alanstrainor wrote: »

There's a reason the likes on the Edge get his guitars set up there!:pac::pac::pac:

Not only setup, but built also!! The Edge has one or two of Derricks guitars and Bono does too. :cool:

Alanstrainor

Dord wrote: »

That's a great price, considering that Bigsby's cost €100+.
You could easily end up with a pile of poop after a bad bigsby install.

Yeah i know, i was half thinking of doing a D.I.Y job, when sense prevailed. Although i think he took pitty on me! I did have to wait a good while for it to get done though, but my god was it worth it.

MK-II

If you only paid €500 for your new guitar then you're obviously not a Luthiers dream customer... your paths will probbaly never cross.

On the other hand if you have a hand made guitar or a higher quality instrument then you're more likely to opt for the full Luthier treatment and set up than to hand it over to a randomer who says they can do it for €20...

Horses for Courses...

Happy Friday!