Classical Vocal recording not good enough

AlanD

Hi,

I'm a classical singer with a home recording setup. I record on a MacBook with a PreSonus Firebox, CAD e300 mic and some headphones.

I manage recording quite well, but what to do with a basic track to make the results sound as real as possible is where I get lost.

When I record a piano track, I have no issues. But when I go to lay down the vocal track, that's where the issues arise. Perhaps some of the problem is my personal perspective on how I sound, but the end result never sounds like what I do for real.

One obstacle I have to get used to us learning to trust the sound of my voice I hear in the headphones when recording. It is a little off putting, but that's just a matter of getting used to it.

I tend to record a basic track with no effects and then apply them afterwards, but I can never find a combination of effects that give the natural sound I'm looking for.

I record in a bedroom using Garageband mostly. I have Logic 8 but I don't really know how to use it.

Are there some basic AU effects that I should apply to a male recorded voice to get the sound I'm looking for. The sound i'm looking for then is just like any typical classical album with a male tenor/baritone on it. Is there an AU I can buy to give me this effect?

Your help please. Thanks.

dav nagle

AlanD wrote: »

Hi,

I'm a classical singer with a home recording setup. I record on a MacBook with a PreSonus Firebox, CAD e300 mic and some headphones.

I manage recording quite well, but what to do with a basic track to make the results sound as real as possible is where I get lost.

When I record a piano track, I have no issues. But when I go to lay down the vocal track, that's where the issues arise. Perhaps some of the problem is my personal perspective on how I sound, but the end result never sounds like what I do for real.

One obstacle I have to get used to us learning to trust the sound of my voice I hear in the headphones when recording. It is a little off putting, but that's just a matter of getting used to it.

I tend to record a basic track with no effects and then apply them afterwards, but I can never find a combination of effects that give the natural sound I'm looking for.

I record in a bedroom using Garageband mostly. I have Logic 8 but I don't really know how to use it.

Are there some basic AU effects that I should apply to a male recorded voice to get the sound I'm looking for. The sound i'm looking for then is just like any typical classical album with a male tenor/baritone on it. Is there an AU I can buy to give me this effect?

Your help please. Thanks.

Hi Alan,


Plenty of people here will be able to advise you. My synopsis is that perhaps there are a few small variables causing your unhappiness with the sound you are getting on your vocal.

I think you need to test and try a variety of different microphones as each microphone out there on the market has a unique tone, sibilance and warmth about it. Like a good image, in order for your voice to be captured the way you sound best you need the right camera.

The other issue then is microphone placement.

After that I would ask you what kind of environment are you recording in? Is it a vocal booth or just a room ? Because ultimately the room you are recording in plays a massive part in capturing an operatic sound.

studiorat

Hi Alan,
Unfortunately there is no plug-in that can give you that sound out of the box. Are you using logic? I'm sure you have enough tools already if you are.

Do you find you are holding back when singing? Is it a sound thing or a performance thing? Singers work differently with and without head phones in my experience. You should try find a nice reverb and get a headphone mix you are happy with first. You could also try working on a bit of microphone technique, moving back and forward from the mic etc.

As a classical vocalist you really need to use as few effects as possible, a gentle compression and a nice even reverb and a bit of eq should be enough.

AlanD

I bought the mic based on it's reputation for warmth, although with any reputation it's guided by biased subjectiveness. But it's the mic I have and will be sticking with until I resolve all the other issues first. Money is tight enough right now.

The room I record in is your typical bedroom, but it's clean enough, in that it only has a bed. There is a little natural reverb but it's not too bad. The sound the mic picks up sounds a little flat and dead.

The mic actually has a few settings to pick up sound from directly infront of it, figure of 8 around it and something else. I've tried directly infront and the full surround pickup settings. I find the full surround is better.

As for placement, I have it head high and I stand about 3/4 feet away from it. As it's a condensor mic I give it plenty of gain from the firebox, plus I add more gain with the software mixer that it came with. The end result is that the levels it picks up seem fine, but any of the warmth from my voice that can be heard with the ear naturally is gone.

I know I'm limited in scope with the equipment and recording space I have, but there are probably things within my scope that I can do better to get a better end result.

AlanD

studiorat wrote: »

Hi Alan,
Do you find you are holding back when singing? Is it a sound thing or a performance thing? Singers work differently with and without head phones in my experience. You should try find a nice reverb and get a headphone mix you are happy with first. You could also try working on a bit of microphone technique, moving back and forward from the mic etc.

As a classical vocalist you really need to use as few effects as possible, a gentle compression and a nice even reverb and a bit of eq should be enough.

Hi there,

I actually find that I'm straining the voice because of the headphones, because I can't hear myself properly. I can hear myself, but it's not what I'm used to and so the brain is trying to compensate for something, hence the strain. If I had no headphones I would be able to sing an awful lot better. I actually did a bit last night with just one headphone on and it made a huge difference to the quality of what I sang, but the recorded end result wasn't what I expected.

I will try moving in and out from the mic for sure.

As for effects, so far I have just been adding a bit of reverb and some vocal brightening which seems to help a bit

Neurojazz

Newb advice here, but try wearing one headphone off one ear so you hear your natural voice and have backing in other ear.... helps me feel comfortable singing.

AlanD

Neurojazz wrote: »

Newb advice here, but try wearing one headphone off one ear so you hear your natural voice and have backing in other ear.... helps me feel comfortable singing.

yeah I gave that a go last night. Helped a lot so the actual quality of what I sung was much better, but the recorded quality was much the same.

fitz

Another tip, apply a bit of reverb to your vocal in the headphone mix. This may make the sound of the vocal a little more like what you expect to hear. It's probably the dry sound that's putting you off.

As for the recorded sound, the mic, the room, the reverb you're applying, eq, the preamps in your interface...they're all going to impact the sound you get. Can you try recording in a bigger room, see if that improves things for you? Try getting things going in Logic and playing around with some eq. You may not be able to fix it completely, but at least you may find out whether it's the frequency response of the mic that you're not keen on.

Edit: Don't take this the wrong way, but re-reading your original post, if you're struggling with using Logic, you also need to consider that the sound achieved on a commercial classical recording is beyond your abilities, not just because you're not using the same quality gear or locations used for such records, but because you're not a mixing engineer either. Get an idea of what you want by experimenting, learning a bit more about how to use what you have and trying things out. Read some articles (there's plenty out there) on vocal recording/processing, then experiment a bit more. It'll serve to give you a better understanding of what it is you think is missing. Then give your tracks along with a clear description of what you like/don't like to someone who knows how to make the most of them in the mix.

Above all, don't get discouraged! Vocal recording can be really off-putting when you first start at it, particularly if you're not comfortable with the monitor mix.

AlanD

fitz wrote: »

Another tip, apply a bit of reverb to your vocal in the headphone mix. This may make the sound of the vocal a little more like what you expect to hear. It's probably the dry sound that's putting you off.

I have done this too and it helps add some colour back in to the voice.

I wonder should I be closer to the mic though. I wonder if I am loosing some of the colour of the sound because I am 3/4 feet away? The mic is very very sensitive and the levels I am recording are spot on, but maybe being closer with slightly adjusted gain would allow the mic to pick up more of the sound?

Another thought. I am recording with one mic. Would recording in stereo make it a better recording? Could I emulate stereo by just doubling up the recorded input?

fitz

As I said above, experiment!
Try it all out. It's impossible to know whether closer will give you results that you prefer without trying, so give it a go and see how you get on. Everyone's voice is different, and unfortunately, we don't all have the budget to go through lockers full of mics to find the one that suits our tone perfectly.

Not to state the obvious, but don't be afraid to use one reverb for your headphone mix and another when mixing the track. You may find it more comfortable to record your vocal with quite a wet reverb that wouldn't suit an actual mix. Whatever works for you....

I don't think a second mic will help in this situation tbh.

ogy

maybe posting some sample recordings would help?

are you using any acoustic treatment?

A duvet/sleeping bag hanging behind you and one of those reflection filters in front might help to get a good dry vocal, then just find a nice subtle reverb effect you like.

Se Reflexion filter: http://www.thomann.de/ie/se_electronics_reflexion_filter.htm

Cheaper t-bone version:http://www.thomann.de/ie/the_tbone_micscreen.htm

out of interest anyone have experience with those things?

studiorat

I've often seen singers pull both cans away from their ears when singing louder. Also be aware that monitoring too loud will cause you to percieve picth as slightly sharp. 3/4 feet should be the furthest away I'd think.

tweeky

Does your voice sound good in the room to your ears? if not record the vocals in a better room/hall etc. Classical recording needs ambience.
3 foot as studiorat said is prob the furthest unless you have a great room / mic / mic amp /soundcard.
The recorded sound unfortunately will be affected by equipment quality.

PaulBrewer

tweeky wrote: »

Does your voice sound good in the room to your ears? if not record the vocals in a better room/hall etc. Classical recording needs ambience.
3 foot as studiorat said is prob the furthest unless you have a great room / mic / mic amp /soundcard.
The recorded sound unfortunately will be affected by equipment quality.

The Tweekster just bet me too it...

AlanD

ogy wrote: »

maybe posting some sample recordings would help?

Good thinking, I'll try to edit together some small clips for you - maybe one with just a raw vocal track and the one with some effects added.

And yes, the voice does sound good in the room to my own ears.

I'm sure a part of it too is that I am listening to myself back and how I perceive what I sound like is possibly different to what I actually do sound like.

Some great advice here anyway which I'll put to use and see how it works out.

trackmixstudio

Try recording without headphones.
The playback will be part of the track anyway. keep the volume of the speakers as low as possible.
If you find the performance is better when you don't use headphones you will at least know what the problem is and can work on getting used to the headphones. If you are just demoing stuff, the quality of the performance is far more important than the recording quality. Another trick is to put your speakers out of phase by swapping the hot and earth connections to one speaker and then finding the mic position that gets the least spill (sound from the speakers). This should be at the apex of an equilateral triangle.
There is a rap metal band I record and the singer can only perform with a hand held mic and the mix coming through the live room pa. The sound quality isn't as good as using headphones and a condensor but the performance is far more important.

AlanD

Actually, I'll try that. For what I need the tracks for, the piano track sitting in with the vocal track won't be noticed.

I'm just recording tracks for a website.

And excuse my ignorance, what does a condensor do?

trackmixstudio

Your mic is a condenser mic.

AlanD

trackmixstudio wrote: »

Your mic is a condenser mic.

sorry, I thought you meant something else.