Dan Boyle - Reduction of Speed Limits

AugustusMaximus

I see that Dan Boyle has called for the 120kph limit to be reduced to 100kph and 100kph to 80kph.

This is an absolute disgrace and as usual, the Green Party does nothing more than attempt to chastise the honest private motorist, when heavy industry seems to get away with murder in regards to carbon emissions.

In fact, a simple switch between two kinds of concrete would save millions of tonnes of CO2 each year.

Anyways, the Irish motorist is being bullied as it is. This will push the honest voter over the line. Green Party and Dan Boyle be warned. Your time in the sun will soon be over if you try to bully the people of this country around.

10-10-20

I had to wonder whether this was on the cards recently.
It had been previously calculated (in the 1950's I believe) that vehicles are at their most efficient when driving at a speed of 55mph (88Kmph), hence the speed limts were set for 60mph.

A reduction from 120kmph to 100kmph would yield an improvement in efficiency of approx 1/8th, but would increase the commute-times by 20%.

I can't see it happening. It would be a nail in the Green's recycled-cardboard coffin.

http://drive55.org/content/view/39/1/

Maximilian

Completely dumb proposal. Green Party can go to hell as far as I'm concerned.

Macha

Yes, a shockingly bad idea. God forbid they look at public transport or increasing rail freight.

Industry will get what's coming to them with the implementation of the EU ECTS.

Heroditas

If the Greens were really serious about tackling car emmissions, they could help promote/support working from home initiatives, similar to what many companies are setting up in places like California. Workers there are being asked if they would prefer to work four 10hr days a week or else set up a mini office at home and spend one day a week there.
Now initiatives like that go a helluva long way to decrease cars on the road
and also decrease congestion. I realize that many people's jobs can't be done that way but for a lot of people, myself included, it is a very real option.
God forbid the Greens would consider something sensible like that though. Instead they'll look at half-assed measures that only serve to ensure they'll never get taken seriously ever again.

DubTony

AugustusMaximus wrote: »

.... This will push the honest voter over the line. Green Party and Dan Boyle be warned. Your time in the sun will soon be over if you try to bully the people of this country around.

I love your optimism. To think that the average Irish voter would vote against a particular political party because of it's policies is laughable. The electorate has been duped again and again over the last 3 elections into believing that only one party can manage the economy in any meaningful way.

Here's how it works in the main.

"My daddy voted for them and my grandaddy voted for them, so I'll vote for them."

Greens will be pushed out either way when FF, or whoever, can get a majority, or jump into bed with a less reprehensible partner.

Maximilian

DubTony wrote: »

Greens will be pushed out either way when FF, or whoever, can get a majority, or jump into bed with a less reprehensible partner.

The sooner the better if this is the kind of crap they are going to come up with.

SeanW

I was wondering how long it would take our bone-headed Greens to try to emulate the massive failure of policy in Germany. Guess I just got my answer.

There, one of the ruling parties in the governing coalition, the Socialist SPD, has been insisting on the abandonment of German nuclear power. The result of this is a massive new Coal Age, including brown coal from Saxony (which is far filthier than black hard coal).

So, with CO2 emissions (as well as mercury, arsenic, Acid Rain compounds and radiotoxin emissions) set to skyrocket as a result of SPD "environmentalism," that same party now wants to punish German motorists with an 80mph (130kph) speed limit on all German autobahn, where about half of them only have guideline limits at the moment.

What makes Dan Boyle's suggestion worse is two things:

1) The punishment (and lets be honest, this is just another excuse to take the stick out to easy-target motorists) is much much more severe, with motorway limits to be reduced to 100kph and N-Roads to 80 :eek:

Also note we don't have as extensive a motorway system as the German Autobahn, so the punishment is even more severe. The Greens also oppose motorway projects as a matter of course.
2) Their indifference to positive alternatives in other ways is much more pronounced. Not only do they share the SPD view on nuclear electricity (i.e. we'd rather sentence our nation to irrevocable dependence of fossil fuels) but public transport options in this country are much worse than in Germany and with the exception of some light rail and DART projects in Transport 21, there is no serious effort to fix this.

I wrote a long angry post in Commuting and Transport about how for many the cost of using Public Transport in Ireland, both in money and inconvenience, borders or exceeds that of using a car, and how things like bike racks at stations and connecting buses are close to non existant, even for those whom public transport is an option at all.

The Green party would be much better employed solving our problems by:
A) Engaging a root and branch review of our power generation system - including a review of their own bone-headed policies on the matter.
Making public transport available to more people through the construction of new light and heavy railway schemes and better bus oversigns, and for those who have a public transport option, making it more affordable, pleasent, convenient and accessible.

Yet instead they go for the low-hanging fruit. Disgusting.

Maximilian

SeanW wrote: »

i
Making public transport more affordable, pleasent, convenient and accessible.

That's pretty much the root of Ireland's transportation system problems. How we still have such a rubbish and overpriced railway network is beyond me. It's cheaper to fly to London than get a train from Dublin to Galway.

mumhaabu

What a load of crap and this is the typical sh!t from the Greens. Reducing speed limits will create more congestion and thus burn more fuel. What we need in Ireland is an InterCity non-tolled three lane Motorway network that is straight and set a limit at 90MPH or else have no limit. Motorways are a safe economical way to travel and every county in Republic should be connected with no point less than 50miles from one.

Carbon Emmisions are a load of nonsense and no country, nation, race or people will ever be able to change the weather, god knows I'd love to make Ireland 35 degrees all year round and I will never change my lifestyle encount of Global Warming.

Bring back the days of Haughey & Thacher when things were done easily and right wing politics were in control besides these eco-liberal fascists. Tax the working man and dole out it out hippys and foreigners. The mind boggles. We need to remove fuel tax, a scrap the Co2 based VRT taxation and reduce it with a flat tax for every car reegardless of size of emmissions.

I really hope the Irish economy collapses into depression so that eventually that the right-wing will rise and ensure that our personal liberty is paramount without the constant interference of the state.

mumhaabu

mumhaabu wrote: »

god knows I'd love to make Ireland 35 degrees all year round

oh thank God Im not the only one
I have just the right thread for you friend !
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055363063

mumhaabu wrote: »

We need to remove fuel tax, a scrap the Co2 based VRT taxation and reduce it with a flat tax for every car reegardless of size of emmissions.

or put annual road tax onto your fuel at the pump so that who drives most pays etc. Less garda resources wasted tax collecting. Also give hauliers use of agri diesel thus decreasing inflation and the need for pay rises as its cheaper to transport goods......

jaysus this govt business sounds easy. Maybe we should have a go at it?

From the horses mouth in response to a question raised by a poster in the commuting & Transport forum

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=57041058&postcount=101

10-10-20

I think that the back-and-forth between Dan Boyle and Shades799 was positive and it interesting to note that it's the Greens who are willing to debate and communicate to the public. I don't think you would you get this candid response from FF or FG.

That aside, why was the thread locked at that point? I just don't get the boards.ie version of democracy/censorship/scared-of-somebody-mentioning-ticket-sales/having-a-proper-discussion which causes Mods to knee-jerk and close threads where for no apparent reason... Anyhow, I digress...

ChocolateSauce

If they raised the speed limits to 200KPH, many people would be too afraid to go on the roads and would stop driving altogether. Maybe they should consider that?

Húrin

AugustusMaximus wrote: »

I see that Dan Boyle has called for the 120kph limit to be reduced to 100kph and 100kph to 80kph.

This is an absolute disgrace and as usual, the Green Party does nothing more than attempt to chastise the honest private motorist, when heavy industry seems to get away with murder in regards to carbon emissions.

In fact, a simple switch between two kinds of concrete would save millions of tonnes of CO2 each year.

Anyways, the Irish motorist is being bullied as it is. This will push the honest voter over the line. Green Party and Dan Boyle be warned. Your time in the sun will soon be over if you try to bully the people of this country around.

Lower speed limits would also mean safer roads.

The "honest motorist" is indivisible from heavy industry. The top ten companies in the world are all oil companies or car companies. Some of them have bigger budgets than the GDP of some Western countries. Oil is the cause of wars. Concrete is used to build roads for which motorists have an insatiable demand. So you can't wash your hands of that.

Maximilian

Húrin wrote: »

Lower speed limits would also mean safer roads.

The "honest motorist" is indivisible from heavy industry. The top ten companies in the world are all oil companies or car companies. Some of them have bigger budgets than the GDP of some Western countries. Oil is the cause of wars. Concrete is used to build roads for which motorists have an insatiable demand. So you can't wash your hands of that.

Of course I can wash my hands of that. The average motorist probably hasn't waged war on anyone I suspect. Do people who own runners have blood on their hands as regards the child labour that may have made them? What about the food you eat that may have been farmed by mistreated farmers? How about the diamonds on your fiancee's engagement ring? The list is endless. The argument is rubbish frankly. Do we sit in a cave and eat moss for fear of association with big bad industry?

probe

If you drive a car with a "real time" fuel consumption indicator, hard acceleration and climbing hills are the two issues that send fuel consumption through the roof.

The difference between driving at 100 km/h and 120 km/h is typically about 1 l/100 km/h.

The Greens would get better value for money with a TV advertising campaign teaching people the benefits of smooth driving. Avoiding hard acceleration and overtaking which generally gets one nowhere, and greatly increases the accident rate on roads without a central crash barrier. Smooth driving would pay dividends on all roads - urban and rural, as well as motorways - reducing oil imports, CO2 and other pollutant emissions, accident and fatality rates, insurance premiums, urban noise levels, and hospital waiting times.

Spain has an appalling national state rail monopoly - RENFE, which is why most people drive huge distances in that country. In France and Germany which have good rail systems, more people use the train.

I went to buy a ticket at Barcelona Sants station recently, and there were 150 people ahead of me in the queue (with about 6 ticket vendors on duty). I couldn't buy it online because the origin and destination cities didn't appear on the drop down list on their website. In France, Germany etc you just type in the name of any city or station or bus stop and it works out the ticketing and reservation. Furthermore in Spain, if you do manage to book online, you have to go and present your ID card at the ticket desk to collect the ticket - because they haven't got around to implementing the EMV PIN based payment system. Before boarding a train, your baggage has to go through x-ray machines airport style - thanks to their army's involvement in state sponsored terrorism against Iraq and paranoia arising from the Madrid train bombings. As far as I remember these bombings mainly hit suburban rail services in Madrid. The x-ray of baggage is only applied to inter-city trains.

Barcelona airport has only 2 trains an hour out of the airport - with close to 30 million PAX per annum. The trains needlessly stop at several suburban stations en route to the centre, where few if anybody gets on or off. They have all sorts of brand names for each type of service - to confuse the situation - like Dublin's DART, Green Line, Red Line, and Northern commuter line and all sorts of other names. Making it very difficult for tourists, among others.

Instead of using the simple S1, S2, S30 etc suburban train service numbers used in Germany, Switzerland and Austria. You look at the network map and see that S2 goes to the airport and you just follow the signs for S2 and get on the train. Everything is kept as simple and clear as possible.

Spain is very like Ireland when it comes to transportation, and is not an intelligently run model to follow!

The awful RENFE site is at : http://www.renfe.es (where you can't go from every station to every station)

Compare and contrast with the Deutsche Bahn site:
http://reiseauskunft.bahn.de/bin/query.exe/en?ld=212.52&rt=1&newrequest=yes&

where you can plan your trip from one street and house number in the country to another and get an e-ticket for your journey and print it out.

(You can also get Irish train schedules on the Deutsche Bahn site)

.probe

Húrin

Maximilian wrote: »

Of course I can wash my hands of that. The average motorist probably hasn't waged war on anyone I suspect. Do people who own runners have blood on their hands as regards the child labour that may have made them? What about the food you eat that may have been farmed by mistreated farmers? How about the diamonds on your fiancee's engagement ring? The list is endless. The argument is rubbish frankly. Do we sit in a cave and eat moss for fear of association with big bad industry?

I'm not trying to instill guilt for doing socially acceptable things. That would be horrible. I'm just pointing out that yes, there is in fact a link between driving and the heavy industry you complain about.

probe wrote: »

The Greens would get better value for money with a TV advertising campaign teaching people the benefits of smooth driving. Avoiding hard acceleration and overtaking which generally gets one nowhere, and greatly increases the accident rate on roads without a central crash barrier. Smooth driving would pay dividends on all roads - urban and rural, as well as motorways - reducing oil imports, CO2 and other pollutant emissions, accident and fatality rates, insurance premiums, urban noise levels, and hospital waiting times.

But how would this reduce demand for fuel? People would just be able to afford more. Efficiency is usually offset by more demand and growth, which is why the claim that the ecological crisis can be solved by energy efficiency is a scam.

Spain has an appalling national state rail monopoly - RENFE, which is why most people drive huge distances in that country. In France and Germany which have good rail systems, more people use the train.

France and probably Germany also have rail monopolies. SNCF's website is probably the most complicated, overproduced and confusing website on the internet. RENFE's website is useless. DB is the master website for all European rail timetables, it's great!

Húrin

Húrin wrote: »

But how would this reduce demand for fuel? People would just be able to afford more. Efficiency is usually offset by more demand and growth, which is why the claim that the ecological crisis can be solved by energy efficiency is a scam.

well using the same argument, lower speed limits would also mean more efficiency. Less fuel used. More fuel available lower price and more demand.
Classic supply and demand.

However fuel prices will be on an upward trend bar any major technological breakthroughs with biofuel production or economies of scale from any massive engineering project (Obama and 10 yr plan - he ripped me off btw i posted it before he said it).

So Im all for efficiency but not in the way of reducing speed limits as it dampens the incentive to innovate and build more efficient engines/hybrid/electric vehicles.

And why hit on speed limits? Why the easy target motorist again. We would probably see more gains re carbon if we made dishwashers illegal or illegal to sell anymore. Why would we not do it? Because its a step backward.
Why should we keep not reduce speed limits? Because its a step backward.

Progress people! progress!!

probe

Húrin wrote: »

But how would this reduce demand for fuel? People would just be able to afford more. Efficiency is usually offset by more demand and growth, which is why the claim that the ecological crisis can be solved by energy efficiency is a scam.

I was suggesting the "smooth driving" promotion programme as an alternative to a draconian "Green" proposed speed limit on Irish motorways etc - in terms of it achieving more. It is not a panacea for limiting consumerism in all its forms!

France and probably Germany also have rail monopolies. SNCF's website is probably the most complicated, overproduced and confusing website on the internet. RENFE's website is useless. DB is the master website for all European rail timetables, it's great!

Switzerland has lots of rail companies, but each one is a monopoly on the route it serves.

There is competition among modes of transport in Switzerland - with separate ownership of each mode, but they all participate in the integrated ticketing system. And if you go to google maps (which is feed with data by Swissrail) you can click on the boat at Thalwil to get boat times to take you to Zurich or the train station to get train times - even though the lake boat is competing with the rail service. You can use the same ticket on either for virtually all types of ticket.

http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=en&geocode=&q=Thalwil,+ch&ie=UTF8&ll=47.298034,8.567641&spn=0.007611,0.019312&z=16

Bus Eireann, Dart, Irish Rail, Dublin Bus etc are all part of one company - CIE. Yet each of them is running different software systems for website timetable / reservation engines (which cost a fortune to run - needless duplication) - none of which is properly developed. Disintegrated like their ticketing system. And they have a tiny share of the total travel market in Ireland as a result. In contrast the Swiss Travel System (which incorporates dozens of companies and republics and city governments and comunes etc) carries more people than cars.

SNCF's main information and reservation engine is : http://www.voyages-sncf.com Unfortunately it is only in French at the moment. If you click on the "Union Jack" language option, you end up in the tgv-europe.com website. But it works. Just enter the "from" and the "to" + date and time and click on horaires seuls for timetable info or Continuer if you intend to reserve a seat etc.

And you don't have to register a user account to make a reservation (like you do with Deutsche Bahn) nor do you have to pay for your ticket online if you don't want to - the system will hold your reservation for several days until you go to a ticketing machine at a station. However if you do give your bank card details when making the reservation, you just shove in your card into the ticket machine at the station and enter your PIN to call up your reservation - no need to enter the reservation ID.

But I have to agree the Hafas solution used by Deutsche Bahn and Swissrail is far superior. It also drives a mobile phone based service.

.probe

colly10

AugustusMaximus wrote: »

This will push the honest voter over the line. Green Party and Dan Boyle be warned. Your time in the sun will soon be over if you try to bully the people of this country around.

I hope your right, I voted green #1 in the last election because of the work they do in the local area. This was the worst proposal I think I have ever heard though and after that I can guarentee that they will NEVER get another vote off me again. The second worst proposal i've heard in recent times was increasing tax on fuel (while it was at $140 a barrel), not only would it hit my pocket but it would also damage the economy by increasing inflation.
They should be investing in public transport rather that trying to penalise the motorist. I honestly couldn't believe there proposal, they are completly out of touch with the average voter.