Massa hit with 10,000 fine

christophicus

First off i must pre-face this by saying I did not actually see the incident in question as I was browsing the web while listening to the commentary.

However from what I gather he was let out from his pitbox into Sutil's path during his 2nd pit stop. From the commentary it sounded like it was quite dangerous and they should have let Sutil pass before releasing Massa.

First off, WTF is with leaving it till after the race to decide what to do ??? That to completely ruins the race and overall credibility of F1, no one wants to watch a race where the result is decided hours after the race is over!!

Secondly they fined Massa ??? From my understanding he was released at the wrong time?!?!?! Thats not his fault its the lollipop mans fault surely ?? Or is it the fault of this new automated system??

The panalty is rediculouse in the first place. Either give him a stop/go or a drive through. I could see the argument for a grid drop for next race, but the more immediate the penalty the better imo.

What do you all think ??

Sabre0001

He was let out as Sutil was going past - weren't quite side by side but pretty much (same has happened in other races). At the end, the pitlane narrows so Massa had to brake.

Apparently there is no lollipop at Ferrari - everyone pushes a button when ready and Ferrari driver should get a green light to tell them to go.

I think a fine is punishment enough - side by side in pit lane has happened before and will happen again without consequence. Massa did allow Sutil to go (as he was slightly ahead anyway so had no choice)...

amacachi

The rule is that it's the driver's responsibility when he's leaving the pits.

The ITV commentators making a big deal about something which could've given Hamilton the win and a bigger lead in the championship!? No way!:rolleyes:

A penalty should've been given straight away or not at all, which is one of the things I like about NASCAR.

I think he should've been given a drive-through penalty, that kind of crap shouldn't be happening in the pits.

v10

To be honest, I think it was the right thing to do .. or next best thing after no penalty at all.
This type of thing has happened plenty of times in the past (even this year) without any repercussions .. the difference here is that the pit lane is narrower than most and meant Sutil had to pull over a bit. Massa backed off and kept right so as not to cause any accident.

Also the ‘new automated system’ is not automated, it is controlled by the chief mechanic (I think) but either way it’s not Massa’s fault.

A stop/go or a drive through would have been far too severe a penalty for what was nearly an accident at best. Even Sutil didn’t seem to think much of it when asked after the race ..

FedFrank2

I'd say if it was one of the backmarkers who was the guilty party we would have seen a 10 second stop go. Especially when GP2 drivers were penalised for similar incidents. I wish the stewards would "grow a pair" when it comes to big decisions like that.

As an aside it seems really dangerous for Ferrari not to have a lollipop man. Ok mistakes can happen with both systems and Raikkonen clearly jumped the gun on his stop, but surely a lollipop man would have stopped Massa rejoining?

v10

amacachi wrote: »

The rule is that it's the driver's responsibility when he's leaving the pits.

The ITV commentators making a big deal about something which could've given Hamilton the win and a bigger lead in the championship!? No way!:rolleyes:

A penalty should've been given straight away or not at all, which is one of the things I like about NASCAR.

I think he should've been given a drive-through penalty, that kind of crap shouldn't be happening in the pits.

Yeah sure its Massa's responsibility and I think he did what he could to avoid an accident .. and lost 4-5 seconds as a result .. penalty enough if you ask me.

The ITV commentators notably James Allen make me sick with his very biased commentry almost trying to encourage a penalty for Hamiltions sake. If it was Kimi behind Massa no big deal would have been made.

Sabre0001

Yeah they should really have the lollipop man - going a bit too far to gain every inch really...Although if Raik had jumped the gun as he did, it could have been 2-3 people down rather than what did happen.

(Hope both are ok actually, especially the one brought off on stretcher!)

amacachi

v10 wrote: »

Yeah sure its Massa's responsibility and I think he did what he could to avoid an accident .. and lost 4-5 seconds as a result .. penalty enough if you ask me.

The ITV commentators notably James Allen make me sick with his very biased commentry almost trying to encourage a penalty for Hamiltions sake. If it was Kimi behind Massa no big deal would have been made.

The way I say it, and of course this is just my interpretation, is that Massa seemed to try and bully Sutil to slow down then realised he had no option. He put Sutil very close to the wall and the pits is no place for that kinda crap.
I'm not too sure where you're getting 4/5 seconds from either, he exited right behind Sutil which is where he went in.

FrostyJack

The way I say it, and of course this is just my interpretation, is that Massa seemed to try and bully Sutil to slow down then realised he had no option. He put Sutil very close to the wall and the pits is no place for that kinda crap.

The ferrari pit is at the very end of the pitlane, Massa came out of the box and Sutil was right beside him, they then almost immediatly came to the end of the pitlane and Massa had to slow up to let him through. So where the bullying happened I would like to see? Massa was right, Sutil was going to have to let him pass so he should have slowed up. The semi-automatic system Ferrari use (were all the team press a button when finished) obviously requires some re thought to allow for such incidents.

A few threads ago, I said Brundle wasn't fair and balanced and someone disagreed with me, I hope they watch the highlights tonight (if they didn't see it today) and say they stand corrected. One minute he says it happened in GP2 yesterday and the drivers were fined, then he says Massa maybe should get a 10 second stop and go or 10 places back in next race? I cannot recall anyone getting punished for a near miss ever in formula one, if someone can show me one then I will retracted my revised opinion on Brundle. Allen the plank was practically calling for blood, so sad.

Ferrari shot themselves in the foot several times today which basically ended Kimi's title hopes bar disaster for Hamilton and Massa in an upcoming race. Will kimi be the 1st World Champion rear gunner?

ednwireland

should've been a stop go full stop. any other car would've been given it. i thought there was a ruling a few years ago that all racing issues were supposed to be decideded during the race isnt that what stop go and drive thru penalties were introduced for, pretty pathetic officiating imo.

meditraitor

ednwireland wrote: »

should've been a stop go full stop.

+1

and as someone pointed out earlier

fedfrank2 wrote:

I wish the stewards would "grow a pair" when it comes to big decisions like that.

The release was deamed unsafe by the stewards and for whatever reason they chickened out of the right decision (a drive through penalty).

Biro

No driver can see what's behind him in the pitlane. It's the responisbility of the team to release the driver. If the team cock up, then the team take a fine. End of.
Ruining a driver's chance of a World title because a lollipop let him go when it shouldn't have is pure stupid. A driver f**ks up, the driver takes the rap. The team f**ks up, the team takes the rap, be it via fine or constructors points or whatever. End of story. McLaren f**ked up last year regarding the spy scandal, the drivers got away and the team got a penalty. That's the way it should be, (leaving aside the fact of whether they should be blamed or not), if it was the team who made the mistake.
I reckon Ferrari will give Massa the money to pay the fine, as they released him, and Massa will continue his assault on the Championship. It's done and dusted. Much ado about nothing really.

vectra

Well guys,
Reading through this topic leads me to belive we have a few posters that would dearly love to comentate for ITV and get on the "ALLOW LEWIS TO WIN" brigade.

Seriously though.

Where do people get off thinking Massa got what he deserves or he should have got a stop & go penalty or whatever.

Could I cast your memories back to Canada when you beloved Lewis took Kimi out at the end of the pit lane.
Remember.??
Good
Then tell me this
what was going to be the penalty for Kimi and Kubica sitting side by side at the pitlane exit?
Where was the danger there ?

Get a life guys and realise that Hamilton is simply NOT going to have it all his own way like Schumacher did.. That era is "Dead and Gone" :rolleyes:

Oh,
By the way
Kimi is certainly not out of the running yet.
He can and will bounce back and retain his title this year.:cool:

jhegarty

Chandhok got a drive through in the GP2 for an unsafe re-entry after a pit stop....

meditraitor

Biro wrote: »

No driver can see what's behind him in the pitlane. It's the responisbility of the team to release the driver. If the team cock up, then the team take a fine. End of.
Ruining a driver's chance of a World title because a lollipop let him go when it shouldn't have is pure stupid. A driver f**ks up, the driver takes the rap. The team f**ks up, the team takes the rap, be it via fine or constructors points or whatever. End of story. McLaren f**ked up last year regarding the spy scandal, the drivers got away and the team got a penalty. That's the way it should be, (leaving aside the fact of whether they should be blamed or not), if it was the team who made the mistake.
I reckon Ferrari will give Massa the money to pay the fine, as they released him, and Massa will continue his assault on the Championship. It's done and dusted. Much ado about nothing really.

What an absolutely ridiculous statement.

If the team fucks up then everyone pays including the driver who is part of the team!

And as for Kimi's title charge, he was shown for what he is yesterday and most of this season.

Over rated.

meditraitor

jhegarty wrote: »

Chandhok got a drive through in the GP2 for an unsafe re-entry after a pit stop....

He doesnt race for ferrari though (isport I think)

superjosh9

I'm impartial here but, are you guys aged 7?

*really* convincing arguments from both sides there. Go youuuu..

meditraitor

superjosh9 wrote: »

I'm impartial here but, are you guys aged 7?

*really* convincing arguments from both sides there. Go youuuu..

OK fair point. I saw the incident and as many F1 fans know there are usualy 3 ways to deal with an incident (the stewards did say it was an unsafe move)

16) INCIDENTS 16.1 "Incident" means any occurrence or series of occurrences involving one or more drivers, or any action by any driver, which is reported to the stewards by the race director (or noted by the stewards and referred to the race director for investigation) which :




16.3 The stewards may impose any one of three penalties on any driver involved in an Incident :
a) A drive-through penalty. The driver must enter the pit lane and re-join the race without stopping ;

b) A ten second time penalty. The driver must enter the pit lane, stop at his pit for at least ten seconds and then re-join the race.

c) a drop of ten grid positions at the driver’s next Event.

Its not an exact science but the use of a 10000 yoyo fine for safety issues during a race is very unusual.

http://argent.fia.com/web/fia-public.nsf/EAC2585AB885FDDCC1257483004B3147/$FILE/1-2009%20F1 SPORTING REGULATIONS 11-07-2008.pdf

There is precedence for the penalty being issued correctly

as one person already pointed out Chandhok in the GP2 recently

but also Ralph Shumacher in the 2005 san Marino.

vectra

meditraitor wrote: »

And as for Kimi's title charge, he was shown for what he is yesterday and most of this season.

Over rated.

Come back at the end of season and repeat that :rolleyes:

meditraitor

vectra wrote: »

Come back at the end of season and repeat that :rolleyes:

I would love it, but I wont be too disappointed if raikkanen wins. It will take a massive effert on his behalf. Im sure Ferrari are going to get behind Massa now and make raikkanan play the irwin role. If he does it with all that happening I will applaud him.

6 great races to come

Mark

ScumLord

I think they did the right thing, it could have killed the hole season if Massa wasn't aloud to win that race like he deserved.

I think F1 is a safe enough sport, so much so it's killing the excitement of it. There's a good battle between the top 4 now which will keep the following races interesting. Organisers need to make sure they keep things interesting.

I'm not saying rules should be completely forgotten about and fair enough Ferrari made two stupid mistakes and should be punished, but the fans watching would suffer if the championship gets tied up to soon.

FrostyJack

Chandhok got a drive through in the GP2 for an unsafe re-entry after a pit stop....

Was he not penalised for actually crashing not nearly crashing?

jhegarty

FrostyJack wrote: »

Was he not penalised for actually crashing not nearly crashing?

Isn't that the defense drunk drivers who don't run someone over use.....

FrostyJack

Isn't that the defense drunk drivers who don't run someone over use.....

Good comparison mate .... :rolleyes:

Biro

meditraitor wrote: »

What an absolutely ridiculous statement.

If the team fucks up then everyone pays including the driver who is part of the team!

And as for Kimi's title charge, he was shown for what he is yesterday and most of this season.

Over rated.

Here we go again, more utter tripe from Meditraitor. There's no end to it.
Why wasn't Hamilton and Alonso stripped of their points last year so, if you believe that if a team f*cks up then the driver also gets the rap?
You sound like a 12 year old, or is that giving you too much credit? Have you reached double figures yet?

Karma

morning all,
this was reported for abuse, but after reading it. I don't think so. so grow up, be civil and focus on the topic.
what ever you say, back it up with common sense and no cursing, as kids are obviously on this forum.:rolleyes:
don't start slating other drivers to yours or teams. tell the world why yours is best(facts are good)