back to shooting after a long break

The Acc

back to shooting after a long break...my friends have moved away and the lands i normally shoot on now have houses on them. I am down to my final 100 acres and that has a boundry with a public park...not every comfortable as you can imagine..no privacy..

I recent purchased the family summer home near gorey and a local retired gardai put in a call to one of the local club gun clubs for me for membership but guess what...not a local..not a chance.. what is man to do... if don't get membership of a club i'll probably sell my three guns and take up golf..can anyone help.

jwshooter

The Acc wrote: »

back to shooting after a long break...my friends have moved away and the lands i normally shoot on now have houses on them. I am down to my final 100 acres and that has a boundry with a public park...not every comfortable as you can imagine..no privacy..

I recent purchased the family summer home near gorey and a local retired gardai put in a call to one of the local club gun clubs for me for membership but guess what...not a local..not a chance.. what is man to do... if don't get membership of a club i'll probably sell my three guns and take up golf..can anyone help.

another dub in wexford just what we want ...apply to the clubs in wrighting tell them you live in there area they can not say no if ya have a postal address inthe area
if not go to the next county meeting and kick ass ,,only ****en about dubs i love you all

cavan shooter

When I moved to cavan years ago I wasn't a local and now I am in two Gun clubs. How did I do it?

Firstly get to know your neighbours. Find the local clay ground, go to Flappers talk to local Farmers etc.

As with any club you will need to be proposed and seconded to become a member. That is not going to happen unless you become known to the shooting community.

Most Gun club constitutions require for you to have links to the parish, don't feel put out build the links and get to know the local shooters.

You will have great craic and make great friends.

whitser

another thread with someone having difficulty getting into a club. gun clubs are supposed to help promote the sport yet they turn people off with their secert society bullsh1t. easier to get into the free masons then it is a gun club in this country, unless of course your daddy(or some other relation) is on the committee.

stevoman

very true. im in the local gun club and the only time the contact you or knowck on your door is when they want you to pay for the coming year. worse again the drop in your card for the last year that day!

shinobi

whitser wrote: »

another thread with someone having difficulty getting into a club. gun clubs are supposed to help promote the sport yet they turn people off with their secert society bullsh1t. easier to get into the free masons then it is a gun club in this country, unless of course your daddy(or some other relation) is on the committee.

It's not "secert society bullsh1t".

Yes they do keep things quiet as they don't wan't to draw any unnecessary attention to themselves as there are an awful lot of anti hunting people out there so the lower you keep your profile the less attention & conflict you draw to yourself from these people.

Also the gun club could be seen as an easy way for anybody to get a gun & would not do hunting any favours with the law. Gun clubs have to be seen to be responsible for this reason & know who their applicants are & the only way as previously posted is to build rappor with the community.

The last thing you want in your club is some maverick wild card who is going to get the club in trouble.

whitser

listen mate,theres plenty of lads on this forum alone who can tell you of the nonsense they've come up against when trying to get into a club. its a re-occouring problem on this forum. i could also tell you of nonsense i've heard. of course like i said,if daddy is on the comittee then your sorted.

Sparks

shinobi wrote: »

Gun clubs have to be seen to be responsible for this reason & know who their applicants are & the only way as previously posted is to build rappor with the community.

I wholly agree with the role of the club, be it hunting or target, as the main backbone of firearms safety in this country; but to think that acting in such an insular and parochial manner is the only way, or even to think that it's an effective way, to ensure safety is just wrong.

Look at archery. Your typical competition bow will put a typical competition arrow through a person very effectively out to 90m or more. They could be, if abused, as deadly as a car or a power tool. The IAAA (the archery NGB) and the GNAS (the NI & UK version) have a simple way to ensure that archery's name isn't associated with a lot of accidents - beginners courses. You want in, not a bother, but you do a six-week level 1 beginners course first. That's one alternative to try instead of only going down the "does anyone know him/her?" route. It's one we're trying in Wilkinstown at the moment and it's proving popular - we're already oversubscribed and have a waiting list. There is massive demand for something like this from ab inito folks in target shooting - can you imagine how serious the demand must be in hunting, especially given the take-up of the HCAP (and that's only an exam, it's not a course)?

Methinks someone's missing a trick here.

shinobi

Sparks wrote: »

I wholly agree with the role of the club, be it hunting or target, as the main backbone of firearms safety in this country; but to think that acting in such an insular and parochial manner is the only way, or even to think that it's an effective way, to ensure safety is just wrong.

Look at archery. Your typical competition bow will put a typical competition arrow through a person very effectively out to 90m or more. They could be, if abused, as deadly as a car or a power tool. The IAAA (the archery NGB) and the GNAS (the NI & UK version) have a simple way to ensure that archery's name isn't associated with a lot of accidents - beginners courses. You want in, not a bother, but you do a six-week level 1 beginners course first. That's one alternative to try instead of only going down the "does anyone know him/her?" route. It's one we're trying in Wilkinstown at the moment and it's proving popular - we're already oversubscribed and have a waiting list. There is massive demand for something like this from ab inito folks in target shooting - can you imagine how serious the demand must be in hunting, especially given the take-up of the HCAP (and that's only an exam, it's not a course)?

Methinks someone's missing a trick here.

I agree entirely. But there is no current recognised safety certification required to get a shot gun. I understand where your coming from with regards the dangers of archery, but because of the nature of hunting, a mistake can draw a lot of attention from the Anti hunting community.
I don't mean to ruffle any feathers here either. But if anyone could join any club then by law they could aquire a firearm with the minimum of hassle & how are you supposed to know that they are completely of sound mind?
Thats where I am coming from with respect to building rappour with the locals/shooting community first.

Sparks

That's not how the courses work - until you pass the course, you're not a member of the club (insurance is handled seperately and their use of club firearms is covered under section two of the Act). The course gives us between ten and twelve hours of one-on-one contact with the prospective shooter. That's more than sufficient time to make as good a judgement on someone as we are qualified to (and the mental health professionals would happily point out that that's a pretty poor level of qualification).

Personally, I think that a decision as to someone's character and mental stability which is based solely on how that someone is perceived by the community, has to be considered suspect. To think otherwise would require you to omit from memory all the various heinous things that have been done (mostly to children) over the years in this country by those considered to be "pillars of the community".

I think it's a fairly simple thing really - if you want to know whether someone's safe with firearms, a beginners course gives you the chance to (a) see if they're up to it; and (b), show them how to do it more safely.

jwshooter

shinobi wrote: »

It's not "secert society bullsh1t".

Yes they do keep things quiet as they don't wan't to draw any unnecessary attention to themselves as there are an awful lot of anti hunting people out there so the lower you keep your profile the less attention & conflict you draw to yourself from these people.

Also the gun club could be seen as an easy way for anybody to get a gun & would not do hunting any favours with the law. Gun clubs have to be seen to be responsible for this reason & know who their applicants are & the only way as previously posted is to build rappor with the community.

The last thing you want in your club is some maverick wild card who is going to get the club in trouble.

+ 1 .your right we let in a lad from the town a few years age he came to a few meetings and never done a hands turn in the club but every nov 1 st he and three pals would hunt the **** out of some of the best ground we have the farmer got piss off and i on about kicking every one off .if you live in a small parish you have respect for it and all in it,to have some say " listen mate "to a farmer saying im in the gun club just will not do .

IRLConor

Sparks wrote: »

I think it's a fairly simple thing really - if you want to know whether someone's safe with firearms, a beginners course gives you the chance to (a) see if they're up to it; and (b), show them how to do it more safely.

And from what I've seen with the crowds of newbies in DURC, 99 times out of 100 you'll find out if someone's safe to shoot in the first 10 minutes of watching them with a firearm. If they're paying attention to the instruction, I'd say there's easily 50%+ chance that they're safe.

Out of the hundreds of new members a year I'd say DURC gets roughly 5 eejits. 2 will never come back after their first visit, they find out that it's not the shooting they were thinking it was. 2 learn to be safe shooters and stay on at least for the rest of the year. The final 1 gets sat on by the ROs and either learns or gets bored of the restrictive environment and leaves.

If local gun clubs are worried about unknown new members, the solution is not to just say no. The solution is to say, "Right, Joe here is willing to take you out hunting. Leave your gun at home and head out with him." or at least "We need someone to help rearing pheasants". Once some of you get to see them out and about you'll fairly quickly figure out if you want them around or not. If they're not willing to spend a short time getting to know ye or if they're not willing to pull their weight doing the crappy work then you won't want them in the club anyway. If they're interested they'll stick with it and you can always cut their probation short if they turn out to be a decent sort. Make it very clear that they're not a member of the club and that you won't back up an FAC application until they are.

shinobi

Sparks wrote: »

That's not how the courses work - until you pass the course, you're not a member of the club (insurance is handled seperately and their use of club firearms is covered under section two of the Act). The course gives us between ten and twelve hours of one-on-one contact with the prospective shooter. That's more than sufficient time to make as good a judgement on someone as we are qualified to (and the mental health professionals would happily point out that that's a pretty poor level of qualification).

I understand where your coming from now & I think that this is something which I am going to propose at our next AGM for new members. I've come across characters who's attitude is "If it flies it dies". They may be the safest people in the world, but these people do the hunting community no favours.

We have a probationary period of 1 year in our club where new members are proposed by an existing member, we call their sponsor who shows them the ropes & with who they must go shooting with when they are out. In this they learn the land & the boundaries to where they can shoot & proper shooting practices.

But my question is, Who wants to sponsor someone they have never met or been aquainted with?

whitser

plenty of ways to vet new members. a few early mornings at the rearing pens would soon start to weed out wasters. i never said any one who comes knocking just be made a full member and let roam the fields. but lads who show interest shouldnt come up against this closed shop mentality either.
i got a lad of this forum a membership form for a club beside me. real genuine fella who was going to put in more then he would have got from the club. had game rearing experience and everything,he got knocked back purely cos he wasnt in the click.

shinobi

Agree completly. As a club we don't operate as a click. Also as you mention there are a lot of freeloaders about who pay their membership & shoot to their hearts content without contributing an ounce & when AGM time comes around they are nowhere to be seen in fear they might get a job. As a result of such I myself was on the commitee in excess of 8 years. This annoys me as I do what I can for the club & I think every other member should be the same.

IRLConor

shinobi wrote: »

But my question is, Who wants to sponsor someone they have never met or been aquainted with?

Anyone who realises that new members are the only thing that will keep the club running. All a closed shop does is increase the average age of the members. The older the members get, the less time and energy they'll have for doing the work and eventually the club will go under. It's better to get the newer younger members in early while the older more experienced members are around to mentor them.

shinobi wrote: »

Also as you mention there are a lot of freeloaders about who pay their membership & shoot to their hearts content without contributing an ounce & when AGM time comes around they are nowhere to be seen in fear they might get a job.

Make doing the work a condition of membership. Anyone not pulling their weight should be booted. Either that or jack up the membership fees and give big discounts to people who put in the work. At least then you'll get some benefit from the lazy ones.

whitser

a mate of mine tried to join his local club. when he rang up the fella on the phone did everythig possible to put him off. saying it was a tiny club,no birds,hardly any permission etc....said he'd ring him back and never did. now thats bollox.

cavan shooter

No one has been turned away from the principal club I am a member off,
Why because if a member of the club is willing to stand up and propose and look for a second for a new member that is as good as it gets, it is called trust.
Basic rules for membership of a club " lives or has ties to the area, must be known to at least two members"
However you need to know somebody reasonably well for this to happen.However I barely got into my parish gun club by 1 vote.
We don't care if he is only interested in Clays, thats fair enough but if he is willing to turn out at a flapper or stand beside you in a competition or sell tickets for a hamper then thats all that matters.

This happens in all clubs, tell you what go and put your name down to Join a golf club and watch what happens.

People are right on all fronts, yes some clubs are cliques (correct spelling) ran by a committee who average 50 years of age but other clubs have had really bad experiences when people get in only to obtain legitimate reason to obtain a firearm, I ve posted on this before 42 members of a club over 60 claiming membership:mad:

As for membership cards etc, I am sick chasing guys to give them theirs, if they didn't turn up at the meeting tough!

Anyone who is trying to get into a club don't give up, write to the secretary get an introduction get one of the local farmers to look into it for you, Find out where the lads shoot, go to Flappers, you need to do some work, it isn't hard.

Sparks

shinobi wrote: »

But my question is, Who wants to sponsor someone they have never met or been aquainted with?

I can understand why noone would want to stick their necks out for a stranger in such a system; but with the beginners course, you don't need to be sponsored by anyone, you just put down your name and pay your money. We charge them enough to cover costs and pay insurance and so on, and anything over that goes into the club coffers, so if you do get timewasters who don't show up after the first or second lesson, well, that's no loss to the club. And if they're for real, we get members we wouldn't have gotten otherwise (and the surplus that went into the club coffers then goes on to benefit them, so it all works out financially and ethically, which is nice). And as any college club can tell you with a lot of authority (because of their high turnover rate they know this more than anyone) - the new people are the lifeblood of the club. Without them, the club dies.

Sparks

cavan shooter wrote: »

This happens in all clubs, tell you what go and put your name down to Join a golf club and watch what happens.

Yes, that's true. However, look at how close golf is to dying in Ireland as a sport...
...oh yeah, that's right, they're fecking loaded and can afford to turn people away and act snooty.
Seriously Cavan, we should be setting the standard for other sports, not trying to reach theirs...

As for membership cards etc, I am sick chasing guys to give them theirs, if they didn't turn up at the meeting tough!

What's wrong with the postal system?

cavan shooter

As for the membership cards/insurance cards I pride myself on the personal touch:D they were posted in the end but why cant they turn up like everyone else did at the AGM

I am not advocating we go down a golf club route etc etc, all I'm trying to point out is the fact that clubs have their membership requirements as do societies (not on about masons here)

Sparks

Ah, but clubs can change their membership requirements cavan...

It just strikes me that it's a bit hypocritical of us to be continually bitching and moaning about the inefficiencies or the out-and-out absurdities or even the downright injustices which we suffer through with the Gardai; but at the same time to say nothing and to do nothing and to not even think of anything with regard to our own failings when it comes to welcoming new members to our sport.

cavan shooter

In fairness to the NARGC they advocate let people in, cause if they want to hunt they will get permission and hunt any way.

I have to agree that something should be done at local level, I have witnessed fellas come out of the wood work to vote "no" literally carried down to the pub on a stretcher when some new lads wanted to become members. Then to disappear never to turn up again,

I think Gun clubs have "members" and then they have a core of interested people who actually spend time actually doing the work, you'll see them at flappers, out after greys and mags etc. Before I get into trouble family commitments etc can throw spanners in the works here...However there is another so called members think they can veto anything.

I know of one club recently where the lads that where doing all the work said F it and went and started their own club. However they still have the same rule "must have links to the local community and known by a member" I think on the game club front your allways will have that.

There is a fear of opening the flood gates if you go beyond that. The fear of the fella that comes down from the big smoke on a Sunday with his mate and shoots all round him....but never turns up for fundraising.....never sells tickets....never works on a pen...it's a broad brush that people are been painted with and it's unfair.

You'll find that the Biggest pot hunters are probabally local and they became members of the club 20 years ago,for (1 year) but never paid after that, but he's alright cause he knows the Farmers and he'll brag about the birds he shot on the first

whitser

what if the new lad is a waster or shoots all around him or tells farmers to ram it?
what if the new lad is sound, throws his weight into the work,is respectfull of farmers etc....
point is lads arent even given a chance to show how serious/not serious they are. first enquirey about joining is met with no chance,closed the gates mentality.

whitser

another thing to consider is that with house prices etc..lads have moved out to country or wherever they could afford a house and mightnt know anyone in the area but love hunting and want into the local club but havent a prayer cos their cousin/mate/relative isnt a member.

cavan shooter

If someone has permission to shoot in an area the gun club is stupid not to allow you in, you are shooting the ground anyway they might as well get the membership fee and your input. Thats my thinking on it..