MMDS Channel line up

pa990

Can anyone tell me what the channel line up is for Chorus mmds in cork.

upc.ie don't give any specific details for mmds as it varies depending on the area.

from upc.ie (http://www.upc.ie/television/digitaltv/value/): "The number of channels per pack may vary depending on your geographical location."

watty

if you go to the website and enter your location to sign up it gives the specific lineup.

pa990

i tried that.. But it still says that mmds line up may vary.. And i don't think mmds can carry 130channels

watty

It does about 60 channels in Chorus areas, where about 1/2 the spectrum is still Analogue. The ex-NTL areas are 100% digital so about 100 Channels, maybe as much as 120. If you are in an ex Chorus area (possible some places in cork) 100% Digital on MMDS then could be 85 to 100 Channels. The Chorus and NTL Digital MMDS are also incompatible.

If they changed to MPEG4 (New modulators, headend and boxes, and no gradual changeover, it has to be overnight for a whole mast), then they could do 200 channels on MMDS.

However less than 60 channels well picked is about 99% of most people's viewing desires. Most of the channels on Sky have less than 0.1% viewing. Sky1 has 1.5% audience on UK / Irish Satellite/Cable.

bk

watty wrote: »

If they changed to MPEG4 (New modulators, headend and boxes, and no gradual changeover, it has to be overnight for a whole mast), then they could do 200 channels on MMDS.

Yes, but will they ever do uch an expensive roll out, if they are going to lose the license for the spectrum in a few years time?

Also, are there even MPEG4 MMDS boxes?

Solair

All they'd have to do is send out MPEG4 capable boxes which are backwards compatible with MPEG2, and most are.

Once all the boxes are replaced, you cut the network over to MPEG4. End users see no service interruption, just one day they have a big load of extra channels.

It don't think it's that difficult.

However, I don't have any idea if the UPC Mediabox that's being installed at the moment is capable of supporting MPEG4 on either cable or MMDS.

watty

bk wrote: »

Yes, but will they ever do uch an expensive roll out, if they are going to lose the license for the spectrum in a few years time?

Also, are there even MPEG4 MMDS boxes?

It was considered seriously. Or at least having one kind of MMDS box was. Which is not so simple.


There is not really any such thing as an MMDS box. The Chorus ones are really DVB-t (DTT) boxes with firmware customised. The NTL ones are really cable TV (DVB-c). The LNB/Converter on the dish converts to either BandIII/Hyperband or UHF, i.e. the normal box frequencies.

You can't swap DTT boxes with Cable boxes other than everyone at once.

Yes, it's true if you go DTT MPEG2 to DTT MPEG4, or DVB-c MPEG2 --> DVBc MPEG4 you can gradually swap boxes and then swap the modulators one night. The DVB-t to DVB-c swap is a huge problem which is why I guess they have stuck with two systems.

Swapping to MPEG4 could cost around 20Million Euro. Typically existing operators plan to only roll out MPEG4 with HD or a new service, then in 5 years or so later a swap to MPEG4. Of course if you are starting from scratch it's little extra cost to be MPEG4 now on Cable, DTT or Satellite. Various MMDS systems use all 3 systems. The SCTV MMDS is DVB-s (satellite format). All MMDS systems use downconverters to regular boxes.

pa990

WOW..

Watty, thats actually very interesting (i'm not being smart)

as for SCTV.. house's with their antenna (micro sized sat dish) are few and far between, i cant see the company lasting.. but maybe they might get some more subscribers when they stop their analogue transmissions.. and then again, maybe not.

UPC will obviously have to continue with DVB-C & DVB-T, however, wouldnt a switch to MPEG4 be an obvious way to combat piracey.. it would brick box's everywhere

watty

I can't comment on that. Except to say that on its own would be a short term relief! I don't want to get banned

Since less than 60 channels does in reality allow an excellent line up (in theory), the main driver for MPEG4 is HD. The upgrade cost compared with ROI from having extra channels is low. Double channels costs twice as much! So you would want to have people paying more for bigger packs and a substantial increase in subscribers (+75%). So only when they roll out HD will MPEG4 boxes be supplied and only when a high percentage subscribe to HD and they need the spectrum will they then upgrade the remainder and switch all the channels.

A user with no HD TV can use an MPEG4 HD box (Satellite, cable or terrestrial) to view regular MPEG2, regular size MPEG4 and HD channels downsampled (which will often look better than an non-HD channel on the same ordinary TV. There is fancy mathematics to prove why, and if a higher bit rate was used (but still 1/4 of HD) on the ordinary channel and it was from a downsampled HD source it would be staggeringly better than some digital transmissions today).

bk

Watty that is all very interesting, but the question stands, will UPC make the 20 million investment to go to MPEG4/HD in MMDS if they are going to lose the MMDS license in a few years.

Or is there a possibility that UPC will retain the license (I hope so as Sky needs the competition now that we have seen how rubbish Boxer looks)?

watty

It's not exactly 20 Million for HD. HD, you only swap the boxes of the HD subscribers.

I can't see MMDS ever going to MPEG4 for all the standard channels.

The 11.7 .. 12.5 GHz band is open for MMDS licence application indefinately. Again the cost to swap all existing customers to it is about 20 Million. SCTV don't have many customers and add them slowly so no big sudden costs.


I can't comment much on the MMDS licence at 2.5GHz .. 2.6GHz. It's supposed to migrate to Mobile WiMax in a few years. But maybe it won't.

The Cush

watty wrote: »

I can't comment much on the MMDS licence at 2.5GHz .. 2.6GHz. It's supposed to migrate to Mobile WiMax in a few years. But maybe it won't.

The amount of spectrum available to MMDS operators after their licences expire on 18 April 2014 (ntl licence Apr 2012) is currently under discussion at the EU's Radio Spectrum Committee.

Comreg has stated in its consultation Spectrum Management Strategy Statement: 2008 – 2010 as follows

5.2.1 ComReg’s position on the 2.6 GHz band
...
ComReg has been exploring a long term strategy, examining the available options and remaining informed on developments across Europe that relate to this band. The primary issue, however, is that there are a number of existing licences operating in this band for the provision of MMDS. The licences have specific rights and obligations and are scheduled to expire in 2012 and 2014. The legislation requires ComReg to review the licences no earlier than April 2010.

Therefore ComReg proposes to conduct a public consultation on the future of the MMDS licences and the use of the frequency band 2500-2690 MHz during 2010.