Web site critique - online wiki dictionary

eoinoc333

Hey,

I've put a site live, it would be great to hear your initial thoughts.

It's an online Irish-English collaborative dictionary.

Maybe even test it out be adding an Irish word that you would be familiar with.

The aim is for simplicity in finding the word you're looking for, although the homepage already looks a bit cluttered for me The process for adding a new word is also important.

http://www.irishdictionary.org

Eoin

p

I'm not going to lie to you, it's a bit all over the place.

I just searched for shoes, and had no search results, and got very confusing results indeed.

Also, you're using a CAPTCHA! Why in the world would you do that? All in all, the experience is very very poor.

You need to seriously rethink the whole thing. It needs to be _a lot_ simpler. The design of a site like this could be the difference between it succeeding or failing.

How can you not have the word shoe in the database. You should buy an irish english dictionary DB to get you started.

S.M.B.

I agree with everything mentioned above.

I tried adding a word and found it a lot more confusing than it should be.

Not sure if a collaborative dictionary is the type of thing I'd be interested in using anyway.

eoinoc333

Thanks for taking a look!

I just searched for shoes, and had no search results, and got very confusing results indeed.

It's meant to be clear. It says "not found", and under it suggests that you can add it to the dictionary. Is there a way you think would make it clearer?

Also, you're using a CAPTCHA! Why in the world would you do that? All in all, the experience is very very poor.

The reCAPTCHA images can be dodgy. Any suggestions on how to allow people to add content without having to register?

You should buy an irish english dictionary DB to get you started.

Definitely. I haven't been able to find such a thing, though.

I tried adding a word and found it a lot more confusing than it should be.

Ok, I'll have to look at the process again. I've tried to break it down into:
English translation, Irish definition, type of word, Irish classification of the word.

Not sure if a collaborative dictionary is the type of thing I'd be interested in using anyway.

I won't force you

Eoin

p

eoinoc333 wrote: »

It's meant to be clear. It says "not found", and under it suggests that you can add it to the dictionary. Is there a way you think would make it clearer?

I think you need to work with a UI designer to be honest. Everything on the site 'makes sense' if you understand how the site works. But most people won't.
You also need to sit your mam down at the site and ask her to find out the irish for peanut.

You should probably have a form and then two buttons. 1 - Find the Irish for this, and 2 - Find the English for this Irish word, or something like that.

If there's no results, you should say. "Sorry, we haven't found anything for that word. We're still adding to our word database. Would you like to suggest a word?"

The homepage should probably go the google route and have nothing on it.

The reCAPTCHA images can be dodgy. Any suggestions on how to allow people to add content without having to register?

Don't have any registration. Follow the wikipedia model perhaps? If people have to sign up to something they won't actually add anything. If there's 3 suggested words, then let someone vote on the best term.



Look at other sites and steal everything good from them that you can:
http://www.irishdictionary.ie/home

eoinoc333

p, good tips, thanks.

oeb

Some ideas

Get some friends to go through an english irish dictionary with you and put in all the words. It will take a while, but it won't leave the site in the nearly useless stage it is now.

On the front page get rid of the recently validated words, it serves no purpose.

The 428 out of 500 to go looks a bit out of place too. Have you thought about using a progress bar instead? http://www.webappers.com/progressBar/

Maybe replace the validated section with the last 5 words searched for or something.

Another alternitive would be to do a google, bring the search box down towords the middle of the screen, get rid of all the other crap on the screen (Provide them as linked pages instead). Google do this, google have been doing this for years (hint, it's because it works!)

Useability wise you might try prompting the user to enter the word in the search box. There are a number of ways of doing this. Bring up a tooltip on load, have the information appear in the box on load (And vanish with a click)

The green and yellow on select in the search box does not go with the black and white.

On the search results page make it a bit clearer. Make it idiot proof. Chances are an extremely web aware person wont be preforming searches here (I may be generalising here, but you saw the reaction this project has gotten already) maybe change it to pure english :

You searched for the term `dog` and the following results were returned
Dog (Noun) : Madra

Why not also put in some useage tips there?

When you search for a word that is not in the dictionary the yellow and green once again looks out of place. You are also changing colours font sizes etc way too much. Maybe try something like the following.

Sorry, but `Flipper` is not yet in our dictionary. Please help irishdictionary.org to expand by adding it.

Then put two big boxes underneath (side by side)
`Flipper` is an English word
(And I know the Irish for it)

And
`Flipper` is an Irish word
(And I know the English for it)

The add page once again looks inconsistant with the rest of the website. It's jammed over to the left, you are using form legends here and not in other places on the site.

Get rid of the captcha, stick it in an approval que instead and give yourself the ability to ban IP addresses to get rid of the repeat offenders.

If I put in a word, and then search for it, it comes up straight away. What is to stop me using this to spam my website etc etc?

Improve your input filtering
http://www.irishdictionary.org/search/%3Cscript%3Ealert('I%20should%20not%20be%20able%20to%20do%20this')%3C/script%3E/

oeb

Also stop refering to the site as 'FoclóirGaeilge.ie' that is an invalid web address and typing it in wont bring you to the site. If you are refering to the website do it correctly (Leave out the fada) to remove confusion. I know you want the fada in there (I have an Irish domain name myself, slangofoill.com) but you cant, and not everyone knows that so there is no point in confusing them!

eoinoc333

oeb wrote: »

Improve your input filtering
http://www.irishdictionary.org/search/%3Cscript%3Ealert('I%20should%20not%20be%20able%20to%20do%20this')%3C/script%3E/

I'll look at all the points during the weekend.

Have to say, it's difficult to put a site up for critique... but the constructive feedback has made it worth it. I should post back after the site has gone through alterations.

CuLT

eoinoc333 wrote: »

Have to say, it's difficult to put a site up for critique... but the constructive feedback has made it worth it. I should post back after the site has gone through alterations.

Aye, people here are often blunt, but very, very helpful

Most places you just get blunt!

eoinoc333

I'd like to add one point about the contents of the dictionary.

The site is keeping track of all search queries, how often the search query is searched for, and if the search was successful. From that, I'm prioritising which entries to add first. As traffic builds up, the prioritisation will be more accurate.

cgarvey

Can't say I'd be as harsh as the others, but then you may have changed stuff in the mean time. A CAPTCHA is a very convenient alternative to registration, and is definitely required if you want to gain any sort of critical mass in populating the dictionary.

However, your site will likely fail (in theory, if that's what you're researching, or in practice) unless you come up with some means of mass-populating it from the start, so that people can actually start to use the site (before coercing them to contribute to the site).

The site design argument will never get full agreement here. Never. Don't even try. If your site gets to be so popular that it warrants UI attention, then that's for another day. There are a few changes you could make to make it simpler to use (and using non-techie friends/relatives is a great tip).

Content is king, and your UI is not the part that needs attention.

p

cgarvey wrote: »

Can't say I'd be as harsh as the others, but then you may have changed stuff in the mean time. A CAPTCHA is a very convenient alternative to registration, and is definitely required if you want to gain any sort of critical mass in populating the dictionary.

I don't see why. How many people is a CAPTCHA going to put off? How many people will just give up with they see something complicated. Make no mistake, a captcha is a barrier to contibutions. There should be as few barriers as possible.

The site design argument will never get full agreement here. Never. Don't even try.

That's because there's a lot of people with varying level of skills. People love to give their opinion on design, but sadly, that doesn't mean you should listen to every opinion.
There's plenty of informed people here, and you'll find they'll broadly agree. Good design isn't about personal taste, it's about how effective it is within the context of your goals. When you look at a design in that context, then you generally get agreement.

If your site gets to be so popular that it warrants UI attention, then that's for another day. There are a few changes you could make to make it simpler to use (and using non-techie friends/relatives is a great tip).

Content is king, and your UI is not the part that needs attention.

Content is important, but given the UI for this site is his primary method of getting that content, then getting the UI spot on is critical. A good UI can make or break this site. He can't afford a bad UI since he won't have a huge amount of visitors, so enticing those visitors to help is key.

cgarvey

p wrote: »

I don't see why. How many people is a CAPTCHA going to put off? How many people will just give up with they see something complicated. Make no mistake, a captcha is a barrier to contibutions. There should be as few barriers as possible.

I worded my initial sentence poorly, sorry. What I mean is a CAPTCHA is a very convenient alternative to registration. Then, I meant that he'll definitely need contributors to gain any critical mass. I didn't mean that he'll definitely need CAPTCHA, or registrations, as is implied in my earlier post.

Now the small number of people a CAPTCHA would theoretically put off (and I've only seen old numbers from biased CAPTCHA providers admittedly) far far outweighs the reduction in spam/moderation manual effort. If everything is being manually moderated then that might not be an issue.

However, if the alternative is to require users to register in advance, then a CAPTCHA will definitely be less of a barrier. I don't think it is a big a barrier as you suggest, but in any case it'd be much less a barrier than registration.

p wrote: »

Content is important, but given the UI for this site is his primary method of getting that content, then getting the UI spot on is critical

I would contend that his UI is just fine, and more than adequate for the purpose right now. Yes there are inconsistencies, confusing language, and other minor issues, but getting content, IMO, should take priority over this. I think suggesting the UI is unusable or unfit for the purpose is a tad OTT.

p

cgarvey - thanks for the reply. I agree that getting a Irish-English list should be his #1 priority. However, should that not be an option, then sorting out the UI is the next most important. CAPTCHAs, poor UI, bad explanations will all cause massive bounce rates. It's hard to entice users to add content in anyway to a site, so you need to remove every obsticle.

I've been reading some things on the dynamics of participation recently, which some of the posters to this thread may find interesting.
http://blog.topix.com/archives/000106.html
http://www.powerhousemuseum.com/dmsblog/index.php/2007/06/08/a-reminder-about-participation-inequality/
http://www.powerhousemuseum.com/dmsblog/index.php/2007/06/27/a-reminder-about-user-incentives/
http://www.useit.com/alertbox/participation_inequality.html

eoinoc333

p, I also liked this article recently:
http://www.dotgrex.com/dsp/2008/08/3-loops-of-designing-for-audience/

p

Cheers for the link. I haven't quite got the twitter thing myself yet, so looks like a good read.

eoinoc333

Hi all,

Update.

The site has survived the first 10 days, thankfully.
(http://www.irishdictionary.org/)

There are some major points that I have changed based on the feedback here:

1. Home page has been stripped clean. More google-y.
2. Search results. Results are now like "dog = madra". Before, I was displaying the full "madra" headword, and all information linked to it. You can still click on "madra" for this information.

Something I have not changed.

1. reCAPTCHA. It's still there. Still best option so far versus complete spamming of database.

But, here's the biggest problem. And it's where I could do with some suggestions on how maybe to correct it. It's the "add word" process. Here's how the process is:

1. Search for a word. It's not found. You're asked to add it.
2. You're asked what language that word belongs to.
3. Then you're asked for related word info, such as its English translations, and what type of word it is.

Number 2 above is where people are not understanding my intention. If you type in "trousers" and it's not found I want to you tell me what language that word belongs to (it belongs to English). But people are searching "trousers" and then clicking "this word belongs to Irish". A lot of the entries are messed up...

I'd appreciate any suggestions on how I could make the adding process clearer.

Eoin

CuLT

Easy peasy,

"x is an English word"

"x is an Irish word"

p

It's much improved. A lot clearer now, and it ever has the word shoes in there.

Looks like you've take Cult's suggestion on board in the results now by the time I saw it. Seems quite clear to me.

Keep testing it whenever you can, but overall this is a much better.