Tracked vehicles / Victimisation?

Kent Brockman

The Company I work for has a small no. of fleet vehicles (6ish)which are gps tracked. Normally there is up to 10 rented vehicles which are also used as required.(the rented vehicles are not tracked by my company)

We travel around the country (2 per vehicle) doing similar work. The people driving the tracked vehicles are being diciplined for time keeping and docked per-diem expenses when they are seen to have travelled home for the night.
(there has always been a bit of give-and take between co. and employees re going home early when job is finished or working thru lunch/ staying late to get finished etc and per-diem expenses were always paid to employees working more than 35miles from base)

The people driving the rental vehicles can come and go as they please/ travel home and claim overnight expenses etc. They are not questioned.

Does anyone know where I can find info about the legality of this as it seems very unfair to those driving tracked vehicles?

Can people refuse to drive a tracked vehicle on the basis of discrimination?

Surely individuals cannot be diciplined when everyone is not being watched equally?

Opinions/ help/info appreciated.

Nody

Unfair yes, refuse to use a car because of it and call it discrimination no.

HarryD

Get yerself a GPS jammer :-D

urban cowboy

f you are in a union and your collegues agree with your grievance you could put a descent fight up to them. All the better if these trackers have only been introduced...I have worked for a UK based company that used these and they have been careful in their use of them - realising the possiblity of disrupting their workforce. I fully agree with what your saying. It would be different if you worked for a taxi company or were working in a bar that had to be monitored for safety reasons, these things are relative to there use. It looks to me that managements reasons that they are using these devices is suspect. Like you said the work is been completed and staff are flexible in getting it done.
If you don't mind sticking your neck out, get in touch with a union, they'll be happy to have members sign up.

Kent Brockman

HarryD wrote: »

Get yerself a GPS jammer :-D

The 'jammer' is powered from the cigarette lighter and switches off once the engine is stopped (eg outside my house 50 miles from where i finished work:rolleyes: ) and the 'tracker has its own battery so the vehicle would disappear for an hour but then turn up outside my house for the night!

The reason I thought it may be discrimination is that only certain members of staff (a minority at that) are being monitored and the rest are not. The company are then punishing or penalising the ones that are being monitored, without any knowledge of what the non-tracked people are doing (most likely its the same as the monitored people).

We are in a union, none of the comittee members drive these vehicles (strange, dont you think?) and they do not want to draw any attention to the matter in case a vehicle rotation system is introduced.
Also our argument is 'all tracked or none tracked' in the intrest of fairness, (knowing the co. will not be allowed to install these devices on short term rented vehicles) so in order to remain untracked the union reps will not argue the case for fear of being tracked themselves (lame excuse, I Know)

I cannot seem to find any legal info or employees rights info on this. If anyone can point me in the right direction ,it would be great to have something concrete to base my arguement on.

Tails142

I think you can get jammers that use batteries

check out dealextreme.com

amen

your argument of all tracked or non is correct.

remember you union committe is (or should be) voted on every year by you the union members. you could removed them from the committe and get yourself elected and then pursue this issue

philtaylor

I will contact IBEC to see. This sounds like they are on thin ground. From an employers point of few its great idea as they can track exactly where you are and you can't bull****, however from past experience this would defo infringe on employee rights. Plus there would be another issue in regards to discrimination/equality. I think your best is to contact NIRA they handle employee grievances and would be able to advise you as to the legality of this situation.

philtaylor

links here:

http://www.employmentrights.ie/en/

Kent Brockman

Cheers, have sent them an e-mail. Curious to see their response.

Kent Brockman

Its been a week. Not even an acknowledgement of my e-mail. I have sent another.

Has anyone tried contacting NERA in the past and if so how long were you waiting for a response? Ta

ageary08

Kent Brockman wrote: »

The 'jammer' is powered from the cigarette lighter and switches off once the engine is stopped (eg outside my house 50 miles from where i finished work:rolleyes: ) and the 'tracker has its own battery so the vehicle would disappear for an hour but then turn up outside my house for the night!

You could always get a more low tech jammer, aka a hammer !

I think the union is the way to go with this one, and if the commite is being sneaky then maybe theres some way around them ?

AARRRGH

How about you don't take the piss/break the rules?

Is that an option for you?

urban cowboy

How about you don't take the piss/break the rules?

Is that an option for you?

your kinda missing the point or maybe you work for management:) if you apply the logic of monitouring a van to installing cameras in an office to check how long a person is sitting at their desk, that would seem unfair and obtrusive..so you don't normally see that happening..if your boss wants to know if your working all he has to do is check your productivity. I reckon using a tracking device in the maner that op has stated is bang out of order!

AARRRGH

It seems the OP is getting in trouble because management can see he is breaking the rules. He wants to end this "discrimination" by removing their ability to track his movements, i.e. stop them from seeing he is breaking the rules.

There would be no issue if he wasn't taking the piss or breaking the rules.

I will never understand people like him.

EDIT: If his post was simply "we are being tracked and it's a bit creepy" I would agree with him, but his problem is he is being tracked and he is getting in trouble because of it - they can see he is breaking the rules.

urban cowboy

[HTML]
their ability to track his movements, shudder at the thought
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I suppose its a simple matter of opinion. I deffo don't like the idea of someone constantly watching my movements to see weather I mess up. That doesn't make for pleasant working conditions. You may never understand someone who heads of early but I certainly wouldn't begrudge him. Once the work is being done.

AARRRGH

Ah yeah, I agree, but isn't his problem that he is getting caught but the others aren't?

urban cowboy

well yeah. personally i'm just set against trackers and the boss having things too much his own way. and that senario is just that. His employer is still charging the same amount so his profits are good. By docking pay using the trackers and the like screams to me of penny pinching and working for a mean SOB. You can be sure his profit margins were healthy before he decieded to selectively start docking pay.

AARRRGH

I agree.

philtaylor

Kent,

PM me, I can give you a name, that should speed the process up. I have spoken to IBEC this morning, who had some very interesting comments on this.

Cheers

Phil

Kent Brockman

AARRRGH wrote: »

Ah yeah, I agree, but isn't his problem that he is getting caught but the others aren't?

Maybe you are trolling or just arguementitive

I have not been caught out or diciplined. Others have in the past. My problem is that I am being tracked while the majority are not. I wish to bring this up with management but would first of all like to know where I stand.


To clear some things up:

I live far from my base and find myself under pressure to make sure I am not late when reporting to the office. This may mean arriving early, having avoided traffic and it certainly means getting up earlier than most of my co workers who can arrive 10-15mins late which really isn't seen a big offence.

If we are travelling far from base the general consensus is to meet at site for 9.00am, but my vehicle will need to be on site at 8.30a.m (not fair as it does not effect everyone)

My timesheet must match the times on the tracker report.The job will be done whether I'm on site at 8.30 or 9.00.

E.g today 2 teams finished the job an hour early. One team went home (no problem there, the job is finished) but my team had to remain until official finishing time (again not fair)

Last week all teams were in the office while the schedule was being prepared. Our supervisor (middle management) told everyone to head home approx 2hrs early as it would be too late to start anything that day. Everyone left and put the day down to being in the office. The two tracked teams had to remain until close of business or risk being deducted 2hrs pay when the tracker reports are checked against timesheets by 'robot' foreign girl in office who only sees black or white:D

Sorry for boring you all (I could give loads of similar examples) but being tracked is a pain in the hole in my line of business and if people here are going to discuss it they may need this info so as not to make ridiculous/inaccurate assumptions.

AARRRGH

Kent Brockman wrote: »

Maybe you are trolling or just arguementitive

I have not been caught out or diciplined. Others have in the past. My problem is that I am being tracked while the majority are not. I wish to bring this up with management but would first of all like to know where I stand.

If you re-read your original post, you will see you have worded it in a way that it seems some people are getting in trouble, others are getting away with it, and you think this is unfair and you are being discriminated against. To me that only means one thing: you want to be able to get away with it too!

I can only comment on what you post.

Thanks for clearing things up anyway.

Kent Brockman

AARRRGH wrote: »

If you re-read your original post, you will see you have worded it in a way that it seems some people are getting in trouble, others are getting away with it, and you think this is unfair and you are being discriminated against. To me that only means one thing: you want to be able to get away with it too!

As I said , there is alot of give and take in this job. There is no take for me due to being tracked (ie going home early after job is finished or even going home early to complete paperwork, or being allowed some grace to get to site etc.) There is no benefit to be got from starting early or working late.

No one wants to be tracked and it adds extra pressure/ stress. I dont know if tracking everyone would make a difference but at least I wouldn't be hanging around on my own

Morlar

Kent Brockman wrote: »

My problem is that I am being tracked while the majority are not. I wish to bring this up with management but would first of all like to know where I stand.

What possible difference can that make as to whether or not you break your company guidelines/rules ?

IF (as someone else mentioned) you do your job properly without taking the piss what does it matter if some of your colleagues get away with things ?

What if they start stealing and dont get caught would you feel hard done by if you stole and were caught ?

It seems to me that your clutching at straws and looking for a technicality to get out of the spirit of the thing.

Your employer doesnt sound unreasonable to me - in fact by what you have said it sounds like they have a good reason to check where their vehicles are and if they could do it to the entire fleet including rentals then they probably would so they are not discriminating against you.

Dont worry though I am sure there are some 'no win no fee' solicitors out there rubbing their hands together with glee reading this thread.

Kent Brockman

Morlar... I don't know whether to laugh or cry Obviously you have a lot of time on your hands and an opinion on everything (over 2000 posts wow).

Now if you could please read all the posts before commenting it may make your response a bit more relevant.
Actually don't bother it might stir up some another rant about stealing and dodgy solicitors Get a life

Morlar

Kent Brockman wrote: »

Morlar... I don't know whether to laugh or cry Obviously you have a lot of time on your hands and an opinion on everything (over 2000 posts wow).

Now if you could please read all the posts before commenting it may make your response a bit more relevant.
Actually don't bother it might stir up some another rant about stealing and dodgy solicitors Get a life

You not agreeing with a post doesnt make it irrelevant.

Your looking for people to agree that your hard done by because you are unable to break your company rules and get away with it.

You think that because other employees can break the rules and get away with it that that somehow makes you discriminated against.

If your posting that on an internet forum and exepecting everyone to just agree with you then maybe you are the one who needs to get the life. ps 2004 posts thanks!

Kent Brockman

Taking the piss or breaking the rules is not the issue here. I am a site supervisor and so the responsibility to complete jobs and submit the relevant paperwork/reports etc... is mine. As I said before there is a lot of give and take from both sides. At the end of the day the buck stops with me if the job/paperwork is not completed in a professional and timely manner.

When the job is finished early, the company still get paid in full and will most likely bill the customer for a full days work.
Who benefits from people having to remain on site or sitting in a car park for an hour after the work is completed?

Often access needs to be arranged to access sites or roof tops etc. We will then meet whoever is letting us in at a time that they determine. This is out of our control. We will start when they let us in and work till the job is finished or until such time as they decide they are locking up for the day.(this is often earlier than our finishing time as they don't want to be sitting in traffic etc)

This is not a standard 9-5 job, there is a lot of traveling involved and many different sites to be visited countrywide. In general there are no questions from our section managers as long as the work is being completed in a reasonable time.
This is not breaking the rules nor is going home when your boss tells you it is ok to do so.
Also I can be far more productive doing reports/ paperwork in my office in my own house than sitting in the passenger seat of a vehicle with a laptop,camera,modem etc running off the lighter charger of the vehicle.

I came here to find out if anyone had any info on Employees rights in relation to what I deem to be unfair treatment in my line of work.

Anyone who is not in this situation will probably not understand it, as I didnt until now. I guess we will just have to agreed to differ!

philtaylor

Sorry for the delay. PM sent.

Better leave it to Monday before calling.

urban cowboy

Op, have a good read through your posts, and know what your grievance is about.

[HTML]Last week all teams were in the office while the schedule was being prepared. Our supervisor (middle management) told everyone to head home approx 2hrs early as it would be too late to start anything that day. Everyone left and put the day down to being in the office. The two tracked teams had to remain until close of business or risk being deducted 2hrs pay when the tracker reports are checked against timesheets by 'robot' foreign girl in office who only sees black or white
[/HTML]

realise the situation for what it is. obviously it wasn't necessary for ye to be hanging around the office. If you had headed of with the rest of them and were docked pay and they weren't....be sure holy war would insue:D

Tricky situation here, if your company is charging for a full days work and the client realises that there was no-one on site - the client may well deciede not to pay. No getting out of that Im afraid. This could be a reason why the trackers are fitted to the vans. A report on a vans movements are not going to be issued to a client unless client queries billing etc. I maybe totally of point here...but play it as you see it;)