The Dubliners

Amazotheamazing

Firstly, I haven't put this is the traditional section because I think the Dubliners transcend the boundaries of Traditional Irish music but feel free to move it.

Does anyone else think it's a real shame the Dubliners' back catalogue is so poorly managed that there is no definitive boxset of their career? Ideally there would be a biographical disc collection going from the earliest days of them performing as the Ronnie Drew group and then on to their impact over the next 4 decades.

I know it's obviously been in the news recently with Ronnie Drew's death, but it's something that's bothered me since their big comeback with the Luke Kelly collection. It's frustratingly difficult to get proper recordings of their albums, and I'm not sure if the master tapes have ever been remastered.

The current best-of's are generally a hotch-potch of uneven recordings with little real insight to when or where they were recorded. Every era is lumped together with no delineation between them.

I think with a proper review of their entire career, people would see them as one of the most important bands Ireland has produced, the internal conflicts between the band, the various solo years and re-grouping after Luke Kelly's early death. Ideally this should be achieved while the remaining band members can add real insight into their story.

Out of curiosity, do people prefer Luke kelly or Ronnie Drew as a vocalist, and what era was their best?

irish_bob

Amazotheamazing wrote: »

Firstly, I haven't put this is the traditional section because I think the Dubliners transcend the boundaries of Traditional Irish music but feel free to move it.

Does anyone else think it's a real shame the Dubliners' back catalogue is so poorly managed that there is no definitive boxset of their career? Ideally there would be a biographical disc collection going from the earliest days of them performing as the Ronnie Drew group and then on to their impact over the next 4 decades.

I know it's obviously been in the news recently with Ronnie Drew's death, but it's something that's bothered me since their big comeback with the Luke Kelly collection. It's frustratingly difficult to get proper recordings of their albums, and I'm not sure if the master tapes have ever been remastered.

The current best-of's are generally a hotch-potch of uneven recordings with little real insight to when or where they were recorded. Every era is lumped together with no delineation between them.

I think with a proper review of their entire career, people would see them as one of the most important bands Ireland has produced, the internal conflicts between the band, the various solo years and re-grouping after Luke Kelly's early death. Ideally this should be achieved while the remaining band members can add real insight into their story.

Out of curiosity, do people prefer Luke kelly or Ronnie Drew as a vocalist, and what era was their best?

personally , i think ronnie drew was the most charismatic lead singer of any irish band ,ever and i include thin lizzy

loyatemu

their back catologue is fairly haphazard - I don't think they've recorded a proper album for 10 years or more despite various lineup changes in that time. I think each year they do a european tour, and play Dublin at christmas and thats enough for them.

Ronnie and Luke had very different styles, and sang different types of songs. When I saw them last year, they still do a lot of the Luke songs, but none of the Ronnie songs - guess they don't have anyone in the current lineup that can do them justice.

r3nu4l

The problem seems to be that the Dubliners themselves and their management never really looked after the business side of the back catalogue. In one way that's a good sign that the band were always about the music and not the money but it is sad to see.

A lot of Irish music has been like that over the years however, moreso in the traditional and folk sectors.

Latchy

They released so many albums over the 40 odd years they were together ,with so many different versions of the same songs .Then there are the live recordings of their many concerts.Perhaps an anthology is what's needed with outakes ,some live and rare recordings amoungst the collection

fitz0

Has the Ronnie Drew best of CD come out yet?
It always sickens me when they do this. It wasn't long after Tommy Makem died that there was a CD out.

PrivateEye

The Dubliners are among my favourite bands (in a fine varied list that includes Moving Hearts, Alkaline Trio, The Clash and The Jam!) and the variation between the singers (who included more than Luke and Ronnie remember) is one of their biggest attractions I feel.

If I had to list off a handful of tunes, from the Ronnie Drew stock (and cheat with 2 from his solo times) they'd be

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kCYO4PoHPT0
-If Ever You Go To Dublin Town. Reduced me to tears this week!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V7Rlh7EPufk&feature=related
-Captains and the Kings

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xa566QvOpWE
-The British Army, quite funny.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9T7OaDDR7i8
-In The Rare Old Times

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XER2fnoHM4s
-Viva La Quinte Brigade

They are undoubtably one of Irelands greatest acts, I think everyone from Bono to The Pogues will testify to that. The story Damo Dempsey told about even Jimi Hendrix falling for Seven Drunken Nights captures their charm perfectly. How could you NOT love what they did?

Ronnie Drew was 10 times punker than any spikey haired little bollocks on MTV these days, and The Dubliners, with the 3 great Dublin Rs in abundance (Revolution,Romance,Rememberence) will probbaly never be matched.

Go in to O' Donoghues and look at the walls, they speak volumes.

Latchy

Picking the 'Dubliners' as the group name as a stroke of genius .

It said to the world this is us , this is were we are from .

ZakAttak

Theres a best-of called "Rare Oul' Times", I think this is the most representative of all the Dubliner compilations.

Luke was probably the more gifted of the two of them, but it was Ronnie that turned them in to a group- he made them in to the world class act they became.

studiorat

Ronnie Drew best of...http://www.essentialirish.com/product.php?intProductID=437

Quinte Brigade is a great song aswell.

Luke http://www.irishmusicshop.ie/detail.php?StockCode=CACD0201

Apart from Sean Cannon, Barney, Jim McCann, Patsy Watchhorn and Paddy Reilly those CD's cover all the singers from the Dubliners and most of the best recordings

A cronological compilation would be nice though and some recording session session details, Phil Coulter did some production with them in the early days and Ronnies solo album in 2006, anybody know other producers who recorded them?
The albums done over the years were for different record companies along the way, I'd imagine it would be hard enough to put a decent compilation together from the masters even if they could be found at this stage.

The last live album's worth getting for Barney McKenna's version of South Australia alone.

oclugg

This is the poem Ronnie's son read at the funeral. It was also the last performance by Ciaran Burke when he recited it on the Dubliners Late, late show special. You can see him do it on youtube. I put the poem here for posterity and because it's not available on the net.

The Lament for Brendan Behan
By
Joe O Broin.


Sad solemn notes and crates of newly drawn stout,
the usual symptoms when a life goes out.
But the extinction this time being 7 times the most.
The music held no echo and the tears drowned our toast.
Sorrow and bereavement, life has no meaning now, silence is master.
Laughter and song bowed for gone went our great captain to some more hospitable inn
where cant and hypocrisy can no longer embarrass him.

theoneeyedman

Apologies for bumping an old thread, but IMO the legacy of the Dubliners is being seriously damaged by the current incarnation . Seeing them bawl out old standards out of tune on Jools last night was an embarrassment to the memory of Luke and Ronnie and Barney. The irony is that within a few miles of the TV studio they could probably have found a decent ballad group that could actually sing in tune !If Patsy and co want to warble and murder these songs then by all means go ahead but change the name if the band. At present they come across as a bunch of chancers living off the memories of the former great members.

Rant over.

henryporter

theoneeyedman wrote: »

Apologies for bumping an old thread, but IMO the legacy of the Dubliners is being seriously damaged by the current incarnation . Seeing them bawl out old standards out of tune on Jools last night was an embarrassment to the memory of Luke and Ronnie and Barney. The irony is that within a few miles of the TV studio they could probably have found a decent ballad group that could actually sing in tune !If Patsy and co want to warble and murder these songs then by all means go ahead but change the name if the band. At present they come across as a bunch of chancers living off the memories of the former great members.

Rant over.

Couldn't agree more - they should pack it in or change the name and stop desecrating their own and the deceased members legacy.

loyatemu

they are calling it a day AFAIK - John Sheahan (who in fairness has been with the band since the start) is retiring:
http://www.thedubliners.org/retirement.html

some suggestion that the remaining 3 plus the new guy they had on banjo at the Hootenanny (couldn't they have found a bearded musician? :pac:) will continue under a different name.

(IMO they were the best thing on the Jools Holland show this year, though that may reflect the poor overall quality of this years lineup - I had to turn off when Petula Clark was wheeled onstage).

Figerty

theoneeyedman wrote: »

Apologies for bumping an old thread, but IMO the legacy of the Dubliners is being seriously damaged by the current incarnation . Seeing them bawl out old standards out of tune on Jools last night was an embarrassment to the memory of Luke and Ronnie and Barney. The irony is that within a few miles of the TV studio they could probably have found a decent ballad group that could actually sing in tune !If Patsy and co want to warble and murder these songs then by all means go ahead but change the name if the band. At present they come across as a bunch of chancers living off the memories of the former great members.

Rant over.

Have to agree it was poor. The attempt at the Irish rover lacked any passion in the song. Indeed it was more spoken and gestrured than sung. You would have asked what the big deal is about this group last night.
I suppose you just can't recreate Luke Kelly singing although I hear his brother Jimmy is very similar!

Casinoking

theoneeyedman wrote: »

Apologies for bumping an old thread, but IMO the legacy of the Dubliners is being seriously damaged by the current incarnation . Seeing them bawl out old standards out of tune on Jools last night was an embarrassment to the memory of Luke and Ronnie and Barney. The irony is that within a few miles of the TV studio they could probably have found a decent ballad group that could actually sing in tune !If Patsy and co want to warble and murder these songs then by all means go ahead but change the name if the band. At present they come across as a bunch of chancers living off the memories of the former great members.

Rant over.

That's fairly harsh. "The current incarnation" includes John Sheahan who's been there since '64, Sean Cannon since '83, and Eamonn Campbell since about '87. That's over 100 years service between the 3 of them. Ronnie Drew did 29 years with the band, Luke Kelly did 18. Patsy Watchorn was one of the most highly rated ballad singers of his era. Gerry O'Connor is probably the most highly rated banjo player in the country. I'm the first to admit the singing isn't what it used to be, but don't kid yourself. If Barney or even Ronnie was still in the line-up they'd still have played the very same tunes. Ronnie's voice had deteriorated more than anyones as the years progressed, If he was still with us I'd put a fair bet on Patsy still being better able to sing. John Sheahan has said several times that he himself and The Dubliners name is being retired after a farewell gig in January. The other 4 members are going to continue touring under another name, possibly "The spirit of The Dubliners". There aren't too many acts out there on the road for 50 years, and certainly very few with a full compliment of original members. I saw a documentary last week on The Beach Boys reunion tour, and they were well past it too from a vocal point of view. Paul McCartney can't sing anymore, neither can Dylan (although in fairness he's been struggling for the last 20 years). I think calling them "a bunch of chancers" is highly insulting to both the musicians themselves, and the deceased former members who don't forget were friends of and played with most of the current line-up.

Figerty

Casinoking wrote: »

That's fairly harsh. "The current incarnation" includes John Sheahan who's been there since '64, Sean Cannon since '83, and Eamonn Campbell since about '87. That's over 100 years service between the 3 of them. Ronnie Drew did 29 years with the band, Luke Kelly did 18. Patsy Watchorn was one of the most highly rated ballad singers of his era. Gerry O'Connor is probably the most highly rated banjo player in the country. I'm the first to admit the singing isn't what it used to be, but don't kid yourself. If Barney or even Ronnie was still in the line-up they'd still have played the very same tunes. Ronnie's voice had deteriorated more than anyones as the years progressed, If he was still with us I'd put a fair bet on Patsy still being better able to sing. John Sheahan has said several times that he himself and The Dubliners name is being retired after a farewell gig in January. The other 4 members are going to continue touring under another name, possibly "The spirit of The Dubliners". There aren't too many acts out there on the road for 50 years, and certainly very few with a full compliment of original members. I saw a documentary last week on The Beach Boys reunion tour, and they were well past it too from a vocal point of view. Paul McCartney can't sing anymore, neither can Dylan (although in fairness he's been struggling for the last 20 years). I think calling them "a bunch of chancers" is highly insulting to both the musicians themselves, and the deceased former members who don't forget were friends of and played with most of the current line-up.

That's a very fair summary of the history and status of the band. I suppose it's impossible to recreate the atmosphere and mystique of a unique group when nature takes it's course.

I wouldn't regards them as chancers; they are just not the same. I don't like Patsy Watchorn's singing style but at least it's his own unique style and at the the same time you don't wan't them to be poor imitators.

For me it's not as rousing or melodic as Lukes or Ronnies and this is what takes it to be 'The Dubliners'. How could you replace them! Gerry O'Connors banjo talent is of the highest order and is probably lost in this group; he is exceptional.


I agree Paul McCartney can't sing!

Hannibal

Casinoking wrote: »

That's fairly harsh. "The current incarnation" includes John Sheahan who's been there since '64, Sean Cannon since '83, and Eamonn Campbell since about '87. That's over 100 years service between the 3 of them. Ronnie Drew did 29 years with the band, Luke Kelly did 18. Patsy Watchorn was one of the most highly rated ballad singers of his era. Gerry O'Connor is probably the most highly rated banjo player in the country. I'm the first to admit the singing isn't what it used to be, but don't kid yourself. If Barney or even Ronnie was still in the line-up they'd still have played the very same tunes. Ronnie's voice had deteriorated more than anyones as the years progressed, If he was still with us I'd put a fair bet on Patsy still being better able to sing. John Sheahan has said several times that he himself and The Dubliners name is being retired after a farewell gig in January. The other 4 members are going to continue touring under another name, possibly "The spirit of The Dubliners". There aren't too many acts out there on the road for 50 years, and certainly very few with a full compliment of original members. I saw a documentary last week on The Beach Boys reunion tour, and they were well past it too from a vocal point of view. Paul McCartney can't sing anymore, neither can Dylan (although in fairness he's been struggling for the last 20 years). I think calling them "a bunch of chancers" is highly insulting to both the musicians themselves, and the deceased former members who don't forget were friends of and played with most of the current line-up.

In repsonse to the Beach Boys being past it, this is from Jools Holland a couple of months ago pretty impressive harmonies I have to say.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ogn79KaLe5k

Just on the note of ballad and trad groups, I do believe 2013 is the 50th year of The Wolfe Tones aswell and from a personal view they're up there with The Dubliners in quality of work. Tommy Byrne always had an excellent voice for delivering a ballad

jonnogael

loyatemu wrote: »

they are calling it a day AFAIK - John Sheahan (who in fairness has been with the band since the start) is retiring:
http://www.thedubliners.org/retirement.html

some suggestion that the remaining 3 plus the new guy they had on banjo at the Hootenanny (couldn't they have found a bearded musician? :pac:) will continue under a different name.

(IMO they were the best thing on the Jools Holland show this year, though that may reflect the poor overall quality of this years lineup - I had to turn off when Petula Clark was wheeled onstage).

That is not so.

loyatemu

jonnogael wrote: »

That is not so.

I'm only going on Wikipedia: "John Sheahan and Bobby Lynch joined the band in 1964. They had been playing during the interval at concerts, and usually stayed on for the second half of the show"

so if not from day one, then pretty much from the start, it would harsh to not regard him as a genuine Dubliner (it would be akin to not considering Ringo as an original Beatle because they made a few earlier recordings with Pete Best on drums)

jonnogael

loyatemu wrote: »

I'm only going on Wikipedia: "John Sheahan and Bobby Lynch joined the band in 1964. They had been playing during the interval at concerts, and usually stayed on for the second half of the show"

so if not from day one, then pretty much from the start, it would harsh to not regard him as a genuine Dubliner (it would be akin to not considering Ringo as an original Beatle because they made a few earlier recordings with Pete Best on drums)

Don't mind Wiki, I was there from the start it was two years after the formation of the group that John Sheahan joined the group, yes he did play during the interval with Bob Lynch and it was only the departure of Luke to England that lead to both of them joining. No comparison whatsoever with Ringo I'm afraid.

loyatemu

fair enough - 49 years with the band is a pretty good run by any standard. He deserves his retirement.

jonnogael

loyatemu wrote: »

fair enough - 49 years with the band is a pretty good run by any standard. He deserves his retirement.

I'm not begrudging him his retirement, I think he is a fantastic musician but I'm more concerned with those carrying on and very surprised Sean Cannon is one of them.