Tae Kwon Do in Olympics

Racing Flat

First time poster here...

Just watched TKD in Olympics. Did this (to black tip) about 20 years ago, and the sport on the Olympics is completely different to what we used to do. What's with the hands down? The points scoring system makes a bit of a farce of it if you ask me. Not keeping a guard up isn't much of a self defence strategy, but maybe I'm just out of touch. And there seems to be no punching. Is it not 'the art of hand and foot'? Won't be watching that again!

BoB_BoT

That's WTF style Taekwon-Do, it's more kicks orientated to score points. I think you can't even punch the head. WTF is more or less a sparing/tournament style, whereas the other types/styles (ITF to name one) are martial art orientated. That's the gist of it

buck65

In Olympic style TKD there is no points for scoring with the hands (unless you visibly shake your opponent with a punch ie knockdown) Therefore the WTF style doesn't bother with punches. The main reason I believe that the hands are dropped is for balance with the kicks.

yomchi

Out of touch my friend. Olympic style TKD is drastically different to the style you once practiced. Sparring on the Olympic mat is not self defence, hands are down to accomodate the kicking style. This I fear will be it's last show in the Olympics as it's style is not active and can look very boring, roll on kick boxing to take it's place

Racing Flat

Jon wrote: »

This I fear will be it's last show in the Olympics as it's style is not active and can look very boring, roll on kick boxing to take it's place

It looks more like a game of tag to me than martial arts.

BoB_BoT

that's the problem with it, it does look like tag and even a warm-up exercise we use, despite some powerful kicks being landed at times, but why bother with power when you just need to get the touch in to get a point. It's all about the speed and accuracy. The style of sparing used in the martial art is much more fun to watch.

buck65

And to spar in also..nothing beats landing a good punch or snapping a head back with a jolting jab:D

mark.leonard

Racing Flat wrote: »

It looks more like a game of tag to me than martial arts.

Martial Arts is a subjective term though, as in it doesn't look like your interpretation of MA.
Not that I am sticking up for it, WTF is the suck from a spectator standpoint, unless you are watching an extremely condensed highlight reel.
No punches to the face? wtf? (see what I did there?)

yomchi

that's the problem with it, it does look like tag and even a warm-up exercise we use, despite some powerful kicks being landed at times, but why bother with power when you just need to get the touch in to get a point

Just a point of info there, you can't score with the automatic scoring system unless its a good hard whack on the hogu

challengemaster

Where you watching it btw?

BoB_BoT

Jon wrote: »

Just a point of info there, you can't score with the automatic scoring system unless its a good hard whack on the hogu

ah didn't know the pads were wired :P

yhwh

I think it's on bbc digital (the red button). By the way, can you train in WTF and ITF at the same time or is that frowned upon

Racing Flat

challengemaster wrote: »

Where you watching it btw?

Eurosport

yomchi

yhwh wrote: »

I think it's on bbc digital (the red button). By the way, can you train in WTF and ITF at the same time or is that frowned upon

Essentially yes you can, however that depends on your own instructor and that of the WTF, if both are nob ends well then one will say something to obstruct your training.
I train ITF and have trained with the WTF on many occasions and still do when I can. The WTF head man in Ireland is very open, I was at a sparring seminar hosted by them not long ago.

dudara

I think that the version of TKD sparring that's in the Olympics does the sport no favours at all. It looks limited and uninteresting. The lack of hand techniques combined with the body pads just turns people off the sport.

The Olympics should inspire kids to take up sports they've only ever seen on telly. Unfortunately that won't be the case with TKD.

BTW, as an ITF person I don't know the answer to this, but do we have any WTF people in Ireland who are of a standard to compete at the Olympics?

yomchi

dudara wrote: »

I think that the version of TKD sparring that's in the Olympics does the sport no favours at all. It looks limited and uninteresting. The lack of hand techniques combined with the body pads just turns people off the sport.

The Olympics should inspire kids to take up sports they've only ever seen on telly. Unfortunately that won't be the case with TKD.

BTW, as an ITF person I don't know the answer to this, but do we have any WTF people in Ireland who are of a standard to compete at the Olympics?

Unfortunately not, WTF in Ireland is very small compared to ITF, never the less they still get funding.

Roper

It's very skillful and I have the utmost respect for the athletes involved, but it is like watching paint dry. To be fair though, I love Judo and watching Olympic Judo is a bit dull too.

Apparently TKD was being given the bullet until the last minute for these games. This could well be the last chance for it. Audiences don't understand it well enough and if it wasn't for Seoul 88 it wouldn't have been anywhere near the games.

Nothingcompares

maybe I'm just not easily pleased but I wouldn't watch an olympic boxing match, an olympic judo match, an olympic wrestling match, an adcc match or a mundials bjj match unless there was nothing else on or I knew the guys competing. boring stuff.

Hivemind187

I can't agree with the conviction that Olympic TKD is dull or uninteresting.

Agreed that from the perspective of actual fighters like you guys (and myself once upon a time) it might seem a bit ... limp. To the lay person it is anything but.

Think about it, when a lay person watches a kung-fu movie they are waiting for the big flashy aerial spins etc which is exactly what you get from some of the competitors - the anticipation of something spectacular.

Admitedly there are a few (The Lopez stable from the US) who arent a lot of fun to watch but strong performances from the Domincans, Afghani and Taiwanese were the hihglight of hte last two days for me - I'm as yet undecided on the Womens bronze medal game with the "one-legged" style. I'm not especially convinced she wasnt playing it up for hte crowd. If she was its a shame, if she wasnt it was pure heart.

I have to ask something though, while there is an element of spectacle involved in the olymipics (and it can be argued that it is a huge element) is it not meant to be more about the triumph of the human condition? To see just how far we are capable of pushing the limits of physical endurance?

Call me a romantic if you wish but thats the reason I watch the olympics - otherwise why the hell is weightlifting so entertaining? they are lifting stuff and putting it back down for chrissakes!!

I would like to see more combat sports involved in the games, not the least of which being pankration.

... fewer pads would be nice too.

/rant over.

David Jones

I caught some of this this morning. OMFG thanks to digital I was able to watch BMX highlights instead. WTF Tae Kwon DO Is that actually "What The F**K" Tae Kwon Do or does it mean something else?

I used to explain MMA to lay people as a combination of the Olympic martial arts all put together. I would be embarrassed to include TKD in that list. And this isnt TMA vs MMA, I think Kyokoshinkai is way more entertaining to watch when its on Eurosport. With regard to Judo, I think they have ruined Judo, no ground work time, I saw one armbar attempt in 2 hours of watching. Its all little trips and stalling oh and a lot of obligatory jacket and belt fixing. Give me Greco or Freestyle any day.

I dont think pankration will ever make it back to Olympic status, but surely some kickboxing or Muay Thai would be vastly more entertaining than the tip tap **** currently on offer. Back to BMX highlights.....:rolleyes:

Tim_Murphy

Olympic Judo is often boring to watch. High level BJJ can be incredibly boring to watch, I don't see how WTF TKD is much different tbh.

David Jones

High level BJJ can be incredibly boring to watch

Totally agree, wasnt advocating its inclusion, in fact I suggested two striking arts that might be better to watch.

Kev

In olympic boxing you have to win 5 fights in a short space of time to win gold, would this be possible with Muay Thai or would we see tournaments like in mma events where competitors are too badly beat up to continue to the next round and the winner is decided mostly by luck of the draw.
Would Muay Thai have to be modified with padding, restricted techniques and electronic scoring and if so would it then become as boring as the boxing ?

Nothingcompares

I think the same limitation applies to mma. If sports like Muay Thai are to be included they probably would have to do do the prelimary rounds all the way up to semi-final before hand somewhere over a large spread of time. At the actual Olympics they possibly just start at the semis and give guys a week off between fights.

Nothingcompares

David Jones wrote: »

Give me Greco or Freestyle any day.

maybe i've been watching the wrong bouts but all the wrestling i seen was just guys pawing at each other and holding each others wrists then jumping into turtle then looking up at the ref.

Tim_Murphy

Nothingcompares wrote: »

maybe i've been watching the wrong bouts but all the wrestling i seen was just guys pawing at each other and holding each others wrists then jumping into turtle then looking up at the ref.

Inded, wrestling isn't always the best to watch either. But of course the olympics isn't meant to be an entertainment event so I really don't get it when people start giving out about a particular sport not being exciting enough. It's a bit like by brother who says that real wrestling is crap but because it's not as exciting as WWE. :rolleyes:

Dragan

Lots of the Olympics is dull as muck. It's not really presented with entertainment in mind.

Personally i just enjoying watching some of the very best athletes in the world do their thing.

Nothingcompares

I agree completely. I love sport, I love participating in them all, I've tried my hand at dozens, mostly rubbish mind you. But I find watching other people do it incredibly boring unless I have a beer in my hand and I've the opportunity to give arm chair coaching. This all goes back to my point I made about MMA fights, yes it's sport, but it's not entertaining people won't watch it or pay to see it, and if that income isn't there the sport suffers.

Pride Fighter

Here is the latest controversy about the Olympic TKD
Video
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jrURqFl0JUg
Story
http://www.rte.ie/sport/olympics2008/2008/0823/taekwondokick.html

Mint Sauce

i've enjoyed what i've seen of the tkd at the olympics, having done it for a few years at one stage i kind of had an interest in watching it, although dont think it was done any favours today, following both the decision in the british girls bout and the dreadful assult, which it was, on the offical by the cuban, have heard he has been given a lifetime ban, in events, heard some thing about him being expelled as well, not sure though if this is from the wtf, or just competition

Pride Fighter

irish-stew wrote: »

i've enjoyed what i've seen of the tkd at the olympics, having one it for a few at one stage i kind of had an interest in watching it, although dont think it was done any favours today, following both the decision in the british girls bout and the dreadful assult, which it was, on the offical by the cuban, have heard he has been given a lifetime ban, in events, heard some thing about him being expelled as well, not sure though if this is from the wtf, or just competition

The Cuban was 7 seconds from victory and to have his medal taken from him was bad form. He only reacted to the farce that has been TKD at this olympics

Mint Sauce

Pride Fighter wrote: »

The Cuban was 7 seconds from victory and to have his medal taken from him was bad form. He only reacted to the farce that has been TKD at this olympics

true, the decision to disqualify him was maybe harsh, a points dedction maybe, but i thought his reaction was disgraceful, kinda goes against the phisosphy of tkd, but beyond that, it was assult, and followed it up with shoving another offical, dont think there was any excuss for his reaction, regardless how much of a farce some of the decisions have been

challengemaster

Khannie

irish-stew wrote: »

true, the decision to disqualify him was maybe harsh

From what I've read, there's no room for interpretation. He went over the one minute and got bant. It's either an offence that gives you a disqualification or not. Boxers don't get 11 seconds. They get 10. If you were going to be ready at 11, nobody gives a sh*t. You're out at 10.

Nothingcompares

Not a fair analogy in my opinion. A fairer one would be you get 1 minute between rounds in wrestling and boxing. And if the boxer doesn't return after that minute he's disqualified. So if you're seconds aren't out after 61 seconds is that grounds for a disqualification? Common sense says no. Not a perfet analogy mind you.

Afaik , the lad in question had a broken toe but there was only 15 or so seconds left of the bout. So he took his minute break and didn't get up on time so DQ.

challengemaster

There was a minute and 2 seconds left on the clock (1:02) from what i've read in news reports. So it wasn't as harsh as people are assuming with 'seconds from winning' ****e.

Also, I'm with Khannie on this one. Rules are rules, you don't kick a ref in the face for enforcing them.

Pride Fighter

challengemaster wrote: »

There was a minute and 2 seconds left on the clock (1:02) from what i've read in news reports. So it wasn't as harsh as people are assuming with 'seconds from winning' ****e.

Also, I'm with Khannie on this one. Rules are rules, you don't kick a ref in the face for enforcing them.

The clock said 0:07 on the video I linked up. However you can no longer watch it as it was removed, NBC suing youtube.

dudara

Courtesy, integrity, perseverance, self-control and indomnitable spirit anyone...

Seriously, a professional TKD person should have more composure and awareness of the rules than that.

Imagine all the kids that are taking up swimming because of Phelps or athletics because of Bolt. TKD (in any of its forms) isn't going to gain from the Olympics.

yomchi

It never did in Ireland because we never had anyone next to near being as good to qualify.
I've spent all week explaining to people what we do is very different, and when they realise that, they reckon it's good thing!
Phew!