PES 2009 Playtests.

Mitch Connor

http://www.winningelevenblog.com/forums/topic/881

Level7 wrote:

Intro:
We have been playing PES 2009 for over 10 hours and will tell you everyting
we have learned

On last years PES-get-together for the press I talked to some really excited
european Konami employees. They expressed frustration about Konami Japan not
understood what was important for Europe and that they tried to get more
influence on that.
In 2008 they started to get some ideas realized. Like licenced menu music.
In 2009 there is a detail that says a lot about the PES series. There now is
much more licensed music, but instead of displaying the song and the artist
as we would find natural, they continue by displaying song title and genre
like rock, techno etc. Like that would be interesting to know. This way of
thinking we see in many other aspects in the PES 2009. Improvements, but
without any thought of how we would like to see it.


Repairs: backline:
Among the worst with PES 2008 was that the defenders all too often were
completely absent and ran around in cirkles which could lead to the
opponents got free passage to a goal chance. It is much better this year.
This is despite the fact that Seabass refused to recognize the problem.
Co-players are also significantly better at finding good spots this year and
if you press L1 before passing the reciever rush into position so you can
pass it to him.
It is also a bit more unusual for goalkeepers making big mistakes. But above
all the frame rate is much better than last years version wich was almost
unplayable.

Improvements: Ball physics
The biggest improvement is that the ball feels more alive. As the players
stretching more after the ball there will be more ”wild” balls. Some strech
out and just get a toe on the ball, and the ball change course. An attemt to
stand and block a pass becomes a real tunnel. Players tries but fails
completely to reach a ball. Shots only touches a player and change course
and in overcrowded areas anything can happen. Because of thi sit can more
caotic in the penalty area in stressed situations. Its probably gonna be a
while until you learn that it can be dangerous to have to many players in a
small spot.
There are many more lose balls.
In PES 2008 for PS3/360 the ball where often locked to the player. Its a
sensitive balance. We don’t want the ball to be a totally unique object like
in Sensible Soccer, but Konami did a good job in PES 2008 for PS2 on that.
Unfortunately it is not as good in PES 2009 but it is better that last for
PS3/360

NEW: Player control
An interresting new feature is that you can chose only to switch player by
pressing L1. With this setting you don’t get switched automaticly when a
player gets the ball. This means that you can let the CPU players pass the
ball around until you switch to one of them and pass the ball to a player
you ran in poistion with. Not that simpelt to get used to but definitely a
nice touch.
Another new feature is that you now can decide wich players you want to
control on the field. Mark an attacker, a left or right midfielder and a
defensive midfielder. Then when you switch players in the game you only
swich between those three players. That way you and up to six buddies (on
the PS3) split up the team between you if you like.
When it comes to tricks the technical players does those automatically just
by controlling these players normaly. Ronaldo for instance can do a
step-over trick when you change direction.

Better but not enough?
This is the impression I get: This is better than last version but not as
good as PES 2008 for PS2. In that game Konami made a game where the balance
between the free ball and the passing on field where totally depending on
the player. In Ps3 and 360 versions it happens to often that there are
stupid players and goalkeepers that causes goals to scored. The weird passes
is still there and at times it seems as they have increased. Either the the
direction of passing over-sensitive or else Konami did increase the fail
margin when passing, as the ball still tend to be passed random directions.
Not everytime at all, but still to often.

Become a Legend: the basics
Konami tries this year to copy Eas ”Be a Pro”. Play as a midfielder or an
attacker. Then choose a league or create your own woth the teams you want in
it. Now you are that player the whole time and you get to first play a test
match. You watch everyting from a somewhat zoomed in chase view in its then
about doing the best you can. To get more involved in the game you can call
for passes with two rapidly pressed R2. But unlike ”Be a Pro” they don’t
pass to you immediately. Instead they wait until they feel like they want to
pass wich means that the chance you saw is gone when you get the ball. Again
Konami shows they don’t give a **** about it should be easy and playable.

Become a Legend: in a bigger club
After the test match you get offers from different teams and you will choose
one of them. The bad thing is that you end up in a big club and you start
out being worse than every other player in the club. I choose to play for
Everton and get to play an intern test match agains the other team players.
Its not going to well even if I make great responsibility. I fail two
important passes and misses two goal chances I made. But still I get a 7.5
rating witch was the best on the team. To make a long story short I played
around 20 matches (aprox. 1800 minutes) got to play like in 10 matches and
almost never more than 15 minutes. The rest of that time I had to watch the
game from the bench. You can speed up the time in the match to 4x but it is
still like 5 minutes per match.

Become a Legend: A failed joke?
The sad thing is that when I get to play I almost every time get better
rating than my team mates and I make both goals and assists. After some
matches the other players in the team are totally out of energy and their
form arrows point downwards. I still donøt get to start in. It had been ok
if my player was developing but after 20 matches he has not advanced in any
attribute. The fact is that he didn’t even advance a half point in any.
Hopefully Konami forgot to tell that Become a Legend is not done yet and i
twill be fixed before release. Otherwise its a nothing but a failed joke.

Master League: as usual
Us Master League-fantasts is getting used to being ignored by Konami year
after year. The career mode has almost not developed the last 5 years and
its the same this year.. The only thing that has changed is negotiations
wich now happens over two steps. First with the club then with the player.
So first a transfer negotioation and then a salary and contract
negotiation.. Other than that nothing has happened and it is still as
frustrating as always.

Graphics and sound: better
Graphics has improved some. Players look better. The spectators as a bit
more alive. Framerate is much better. A lot of new animations. The menus at
least has a design this year. And facial expressions are more life like.
Even the sound, besides many songs that are ok at least, is improved. There
are also more fan songs from the arenas even if they get old after a while.

Online: Confusion
Choose name, favorite team, favorite player and a signature before going on
server hunt. Its divided up in British, German and some other variants. You
see where there is people and how many. Then you go to the lobby and find
players. I spend an hour getting started, but hopefully its not completely
ready yet and Konami forgot to say so.
In the menus I choose I want to play 2 vs 2 online. (in 2003 Seabass said in
an interview they could do 11 vs 11 online on the PS2) ans then there is
this Legend mode where each player can take hes own player and play on the
same team with 3 friends. Exactly how it works we have not been able to test
during the day.

Edit: the same
Its exactly the same as always. You can change team name and adjust players
in every aspect from looks to attributes. There is for instance 16 different
shoes (no custom made). About the same amount of settings as last year when
it comes to facial hair, hair, face models and other.. The face you can do a
whole lot to but hair and beards its still not good enough.
To setup dribbles and free kicks feels extremely pointless but the 71 goal
celebrations is just as fun as last year. You can import a picture from
Playsation Eye, but it doesnt seem to be improved from last year, and us who
has a beard can forget to get i ton the player.

Licences: fewer
The big news is that Konami seem to have lost the whole spanish league. They
have fake team names and false clothing. In England Liverpool and Man U. Is
confirmed but they are still named wrong in this version. Bayern München is
traded for Zenit St. Petersburg and in Scandinavia Helsingborg is out and
Brøndby is in. (Hammerby, AIJ, Rosenborg, Helsinki, IFK Göteborg og FCK is
still in. They have in other words not gained one licence without losing at
least one for it.


Other shot impressions:
Replays kan now be seen even after referee stopage.
Still 8 directions for running
To hold in X and SQUARE works extremely well for taking the ball from the
CPU.
Just like in 2008 it happens to often that players are positioned wrong on
the field. A defensive midfielder at a offensive throw in for instance.
Online games require Konami ID – on the PS3 at least.
Infights can end in several ways.
Players still don’t know where the side lines are.
Players sometime stop for a second when missed a pass or lost a close fight
for the ball.
I must still check up on what match is next and what is on stake in it.

Conclusion: almost all the way
A lot has been improved from 2008 and besides watching from the bench in
Become a Legend I have had a lot of fun with PES 2009. It is significant
better than 2008 in many of the most important areas, but I still am i
littel dissapointed. This is what PES 2008 should have been like. I had
hoped for yet another big step. A step closer to the game feel as the PS2
version the year before, lots of licenses, less rigid animations on the
field. Smarter players and many other things. Instead Konami has focused on
new modes that hopefully didn’t work as intended in the build I was
testing. So: Really good, but just not the perfect game I had hoped for.

Not a great review of the preview build, and hopefully Become a Legend turns out to be better then it appears for him in the final build. Does mention that gameplay has improved and that overall AI is better. Still looking like it will be a better outing than PES08, but maybe not as much better as I had hoped for. If Become a Legend turns out to be a bit of a failure, despite the fact Konami have had it working properly in J-League versions of the game (and they did not copy from Fifa, Fifa copied them...) I will be disappointed.

Still looking forward to all the news from Adam and Suff later - in proper English and we can hopefully ask them questions and get clarification on some issues to. Will post any interesting info I see from them in this thread.

EDIT: The WENB forums are offline at the moment, not sure when they will be back either. They have been taken down so that the load on the forums doesn't cause the entire site to go down, and thus prevent access to the podcast, video-cast and write-ups on the blog. Still, annoying - given that now we won't be able to quiz Adam and Suff immediately.

Mitch Connor

http://www.pesfan.com/news/?id=7236158

pesfan.com wrote:

After last season’s dismal outing of Pro Evolution Soccer, many fans started to question how much further the game could progress and if the developers were really in-touch with their fan base outside of Japan. As soon as the game was released, interviews from Seabass himself began to circulate where he was almost apologetic with the game that had just been put out. Added to the justified criticism aimed towards PES 2008, the FIFA series had kicked itself up the backside and last year released a game many thought was the turning point in the PES vs FIFA argument which keeps rumbling on.

With a now tainted reputation, PES slunk quietly back into its cave knowing it had to do better next time around. Nearly a year has passed since the release of PES 2008 and the developers have been hard at work in Japan desperate to make up for the shortcomings of their previous game.

TheBoss was invited by Konami down to their offices last week for an exclusive playtest of the new Pro Evolution Soccer game. He had the chance to play a 70% complete build on the PS3 (the development process is much further on than 70%).



THE STUFF OF LEGENDS

The major new addition to PES 2009 is the Become a Legend mode, which has existed in the Japanese J-League games for the last couple of years under the name ‘Fantasista’. Thankfully, Konami have decided to rename the mode for the world market and improve upon their original design. You create your potential legend when you first enter the mode and then it’s off to a trial match where, based on your performance, a scout will pick you out and offer you a deal at a club. Once at a club, it’s your job to work your way up through the ranks through good performances before making the jump into the first team. Impress enough and you could earn yourself a move to a major club, but if you do badly you’ll find yourself relegated back to the bench and maybe even a move to smaller club!

Your player’s stats are generated after the trial game and will be calculated according to your performance in the match, as well as what your main strengths or weaknesses were. During the season, the more your player plays, the quicker he will develop and by focusing on your passing for example and executing several key passes, your passing stats will increase quicker. The same applies to other characteristics of your player, so in theory will mirror your own playing style. Sitting on the bench for long periods of time will doing nothing to develop your Legend (and won’t alleviate your boredom either, although thankfully you can increase the speed of the game during these times until you get substituted on) and you may find yourself better off transferring to a smaller club to hone your skills in the first team before making the step back up.



As this has the potential to be a deep mode, all the options couldn’t be explored in the playtest but the first impressions of it are very positive. The new vertical player cam, which was partly on show during the PES 2009 trailer, works very well. During the season, you can check out your own personal playing stats as well as your team stats as you could in Master League mode. One slight limitation of the mode is the fact you can’t play as a goalkeeper or a defender through this mode. The lack of a goalkeeper option is clearly understandable as it would need a new range of controls specifically for the keeper, but slightly disappointed you can’t be a defender. Possibly the programmers thought it wouldn’t be as exciting to be a defender, or more likely it would have required the developers to work extensively on your team mates defensive AI possibly delaying the game. If you’re desperate to play as a defender, then you could pick WB as your position and try to sign for a team which uses wing backs who will subsequently give you some defensive responsibility.

If you get bored of just taking your superstar through the offline game mode, then you should be delighted with another major new addition in ‘Legends’, the online version of Become a Legend where you take your player online and play with others against the computer.




The Master League mode hasn’t received much attention with only slight tweaks being made to the negotiations and player loyalty which has already been touched upon in the most recent press release from Konami.
It’s certainly a disappointment that so little has been done in a mode which was once regarded as one of the best single player modes in any sports game, where even small additions could breathe new life into Master League.

EDITING BACK WITH A BANG

One section of the game which has received much needed attention is the edit mode. Back on the PS2, the edit modes were expansive allowing you to edit pretty much everything to do with a team and players but when the game was debuted on a next-gen system, the edit mode was almost non-existent. PES 2008 improved on this by allowing you to edit more than just player names but it still lacked many of the features that still existed on the PS2 version of the game. In its defence, it did bring a couple of new features to the table in the ability to take photos and use them on kits, as well as comprehensive face editing.

PES 2009 improves on this again with the return of emblem editing, which will make the team selection screen much easier for me! You can either use the Pixel Paint method unveiled in the press release, or you can import a jpg file off the hard drive for the badge. The kit editing has also been improved upon with new template designs, as well as the ability to import jpg files off the hard drive for sponsor and manufacturer logos with enough room for 40 team’s images to be saved. There’s enough room on the shirts for one badge and one ‘logo’ design to be displayed at once so the people in the editing section should be able to make some top notch designs! Boot editing misses out again but with a plethora of designs and colours to choose from, PES players with a boot fetish should be satisfied with the amount on offer. The standard player editing options still exist, as do the team options. One added extra is the ability to import your own crowd chants, so all the scousers can finally replicate famous European nights with ‘You’ll Never Walk Alone’ being belted out by the home fans in the dying minutes of a game.

More after the advert...

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...Continued

All these new additions to the game will ultimately amount to nothing if the gameplay doesn’t stand up to previous instalments of the game, and more importantly, what the competition has brought to the party.



One major alteration to the core gameplay is the implementation of true manual control. In the past, once a player had passed the ball to a team-mate, the cursor would then automatically switch to the player receiving the pass. However, in PES 20009 the cursor will not switch unless you select him. This new control system seems like a step forward as it allows you to pass the ball to a computer controlled player whilst you run into space with the passer, before switching control to the ball carrier and playing a through ball to the man you ran into space with. This new control system may take a bit of time to get the hang of, even for a PES veteran, and expect to find yourself in many keystone cop defending situations as you lose track of who you’re controlling!

One of my main gripes with PES 2008 was the erratic and often hopeless goalkeepers who would consistently parry shots back into play for an easy tap in by the opposition striker. Thankfully, during the playtest the keepers seemed much more alive to their surroundings, rarely spilling easy shots and reacting far quicker after diving to save a shot. Another regular complaint across the PES community was the invincibility of dribblers who were able to run the entire length of the pitch brushing off all defenders before unleashing a shot from a narrow angle which would end up in the back of the net. Again, Konami have listened to the complaints and have improved the tackling making it much harder to beat a player meaning we shouldn’t be seeing as many sixty yard dribbles in the future.
Shooting is also harder, with strikers no longer able to score from tight angles as often as they were able to in PES 2008. Body positioning and the striker’s stats play a bigger part in determining how accurate the shot will be, meaning you will have to create clearer chances for your front men for them to have a good chance of beating the ‘keeper.

The player animations have also received a slight revamp, with the ‘ice skating’ animations less obvious. The player models appear better than ever, with faces looking even more realistic than before. The lighting effects make the players look more like people and less like wax work models from Madame Tussauds. Beckham even had his neck tattoos!

The long balls and crosses now seem ‘floaty’, with crosses proving quite effective against the computer with crosses aimed at the back post leading to some easy goals. Against human opposition this didn’t seem as effective so perhaps it’s just a small AI niggle which hadn’t been fixed yet.



Some small niggles still remain in the game, such as the invisible wall around the throw in taker and the odd controversial decision from the referee. The number of stadiums has been increased from the rather paltry offering of PES 08 to a healthier sounding 24, with some stadiums returning from the PS2 versions like the Rasunda in Sweden and the Amsterdam Arena, joining some new officially licensed stadiums such as Wembley. Some new teams will be joining the roster but with licenses not 100% confirmed at this point, a complete team list can’t be given at this time.

AND THE WIND IS SHOOTING THROUGH THE STADIUM!

Audio wise, the commentary team of Jon Champion and Mark Lawrenson return with a few new lines of input to entertain you during your games, but apart from the odd new comment very little has changed from the previous game. One of PES’ many charms for me was the quirky J-Pop tunes that greeted you when you navigated through the menus. Still without any mainstream music, there are over sixty rock songs to choose from on the playlist, with the added ability to import custom mp3 files to play on the menus.

The one Achilles heel of PES has always been the online side of the game. When it was introduced back in PES 5 it suffered from some serious lag. Fast forward to today and the game still has its laggy moments which, truth be told, is unacceptable. PES 2008 had some of the popular features removed, such as the ability to play 2vs2 and even one of the more essential features in the lobby. PES 2009 tries to rectify this by bringing back the lobby to find your opponents, and 2vs2 returns as well. With the addition of ‘Legend’ mode Konami have increased the number of online options, but if the game doesn’t run smoothly then it will fall flat on its face.

TheBoss says:

If you search through this site you will not find any comments from me about PES 6 or 8. The PES version of choice in the office for the past 2 years has remained the PS2 version (essentially PES 5). For the first time it looks like we might finally get a next gen version of PES worthy enough to make the jump.

It feels as if the developers have gone back to PES 5 and developed from there. The results mean it not only plays like 5 but all the problems of 6 and 8 are erased.

On the good side there’s NO SLOW DOWN, no 60 yard cheap runs, no 1/2 way line goals, keepers are better and the whole game just feels like PES as you know it. Combine that with new Legends modes, Champions League mode and a more complete edit mode and things are looking promising.

On the bad side there was some soft defending on corners, teams tended to collapse after a few goals went in and then some minor gripes with flickering replays and unfinished kits, but with two months to go there’s plenty of time to get these ironed out.

For me the one thing I'm now praying for is that they finally sort out the online problems, if they can nail that then we will have the best next gen football game on the market

So there you have it, a very positive opinion of PES 2009, which is shaping up to be a cracker when it's released in October.

With the Leipzig Games Convention now underway, expect a barrage of news and videos over the next few days

Seems to be fairly happy with the game. Annoyed that he mentions the Champions League as a new mode, but doesn't say anything of its implementation.

I'm still not sure about this player control issue... I love intricate little passing plays involving 3 or 4 players, but I don't know if these will be possible with the new control method - I really hope it is an optional control method as Manual, Semi-Automatic and Automatic were in previous versions. I have heard that it is but I would hope for clarification on this. Another thing I would like to here more of is the editing - it says there is room for 40 emblems to be saved - how annoying is that? PS3 has an 80GB harddrive - there should be no limitation. I wonder what the (stupid) limitation to the number of photo-import kits will be.

EDIT: I asked about the player switching on PESFAN and TheBoss has said that automatic and semi-automatic switching are still available and work the same as before. PHEW.

Vic Vinegar

Class, excellent post Tauren!! :)

Mitch Connor

http://www.winningelevenblog.com/news/exclusive-wenb-vidcast/

Video cast from Adam and Suff regarding the playtest they had on monday.

Amazingly, the video is no longer available on YouTube so you'll have to use one of the externam links. I'm downloading it now, haven't listened to it yet.

EDIT: Video available again.

From listening to it - Adam and Suff like it, a lot, but they say it is a game you have to play to appreciate. Gameplay is somewhere between PES5 and PES6, much slower than 08 - the gameplay vids we'll get from Leipzig won't do it justice. not much info yet - we'll get that from the editorials and podcast I reckon. Hopefully they hit soon, they are 7minutes late by my reckoning!

Mitch Connor

http://www.winningelevenblog.com/news/adams-perspective-pes-2009-play-test/

Adam wrote:

A reassuring smile was etched onto Suff’s face once he started playing PES 2009. I’d just asked him about the gameplay, initially concerned by the aesthetics. I knew from his reaction the game was in a safe place, finally rediscovering what made PES so special over an amazing amount of years – GAMEPLAY.

We sat down after signing the NDA’s and Suff decided to start off with a one player match. Selecting Liverpool (surprise) he started the game. At first I was deflated with the look of the game. A quick glance told me it looks like a sharpened up PES 2008, with cleaned up animations and decent player models. Sure the textures have been enhanced (grass looks lovely now by the way), but still, it was comparable to its predecessor. Soon though, I could see differences in the way the ball moved, and how considered the pace was. I was happy to see the wide cam had been pulled back a touch, showing more of the pitch. Then the little animations started to emerge. You could see tussling, and players calling for the ball when in space. Dribbling looks unique to certain players, as does running. Bit by bit the game started to come alive. Until…the final whistle. Now it was my turn.

Selecting Italy VS France I dove straight into the match. Instant impact! The game is slower. It’s more realistic. It’s familiar…It’s PES5?!?! That was my entire thought process when going through the first few minutes of playing the game.

After spending so much time on PES 2008 before this playtest, PES 2009 is such an advancement from it. Like all great PES’s of the past, though, it’s something you don’t realise after a quick look.

First of all I want to talk about the best thing about PES 2009. The ball physics. It’s just breathtaking. From the balloon affect that was in PES 2008, Konami have flipped it on its head. It has more weight to it, and feels more disconnected from the players than ever before. The way it travels on the ground and how it bounces, it will have you in awe when you experience it.

The second triumph in the game is the rain. Not only does it affect the way the ball travels and reacts, it also looks absolutely incredible. One of the guys we spoke to quite rightly likened it to a mid-week champions league game, with the fantastic lighting effects complimenting this theory. It was something both me and Suff were taken back by, and once we discovered it we didn’t change the weather option!

And with these additions, especially the ball physics, the game feels completely different from last year. What it doesn’t do, though, is feel different from years past.

With PES 2008 receiving so much criticism, Konami have decided to stop the rot they are in with next-gen development. Similar to how Square Soft would release Final Fantasy VII if they were struggling, Konami have gone back to one of their most appreciated versions to find some solid ground. And it’s no bad thing, if you were a fan of PES5 or 6.

The main PES5 comparisons come from 2009’s slow, conservative pace. The players have more weight to them, and this coupled with the more realistic ball physics firmly puts the PES series back into simulation territory. The PES6 elements come from the ability to beat players a little bit easier than in PES5. It’s never unrealistic in that PES 2008 way though, gameplay throughout remains realistic.

This return to form isn’t just because they slowed down the gameplay. It also down to the little additions and touches that made the fans fall in love with the series in the first place. Attention to detail on the kits and player representation has gone up a notch once again. The textures on the new Italian for example were exemplary, along with stitching and emblem resolution. The quality of all the kits has certainly left that low res look behind, and entered the HD era with aplomb.

As for the players, no game has done a better job than PES 2009 in making them look and feel like their real life counterparts. Cristiano Ronaldo is a perfect example. First of all his face is amazingly accurate, along with his heavily gelled hairstyle. Then there is his player model, 100% in proportion with a unique running and dribbling style. Finally you have his trademark free kick and penalty. All these things won’t affect the gameplay, but typifies what PES used to do better than anyone else. Something they’d forgotten about last year.

Another thing that will get fans excited is the edit mode. Unfortunately we can’t talk about it extensively until August 28th, which coincides with the next PSM3 issue. Sporting PES 2009 as its cover title, expect the guys over there to have a huge feature detailing just what you can do with the edit mode.

Aside from the graphics details and instant gameplay impressions, I was pleased to discover many of my major gripes of PES 2008 had been totally sorted. Things like tackling and dribbling had thankfully been rebalanced, with the pendulum favouring decent defenders rather than tricky dribblers. Goal Keepers had also been improved, consistently parrying shots away from danger rather than into their own nets. The AI was also more intelligent and intense when playing on the higher difficulty levels. They certainly press you quicker, and in my time there I scored around 4 goals in 6 matches against them.

All this and I haven’t spoken about manual passing yet. With the trick moves now linked to the standard directional controls, the right analogue stick is exclusively used for manual passing. Unlike previous versions, you now don’t have to click in the stick to gain power – it’s a simple case of pointing where you want it to go. At first it seemed a bit weird, but once we spent a little time with it we produced some excellent through balls that wouldn’t of been possible without manual passing. Certainly a feature that will have it benefits, but I’m unsure if it will have people switching.

Rounding up this experience, I want to quickly take everyone through the new game modes and additions. The obvious winner here is the ‘new’ become a legend mode, where you control a single player and take him through his entire career. Playing the first match which is a youth game, the whole idea is to get spotted by a scout. After completing the game you are presented with 3 teams to go to. We went for the lowest ranked team to try and get a game, but still had to sit on the bench for a while and be content with training matches against the 1st team. I have to say me and Suff had loads of fun with this mode, and can see it being a huge success. Together with this mode, you have Legends where you can take your created player online. Would’ve been really cool to see how it works, but as you might if guessed online wasn’t working in this build.

Unfortunately there’s nothing much to comment on regarding the Master League. The only new addition is the way the transfer system works, and how you can see decisions quicker. There is an underlying element of player happiness/loyalty or discontent that can affect the outcome also, but that’s something we didn’t have the opportunity to dabble in further.

So overall my take on PES 2009 is very positive. It’s something for all the fans of PES, and in many ways Konami have used their ‘get out of jail’ card. A version that is dedicated in bringing back everything the fans have loved in the past and giving it a new a shiny coating. It’s a move I welcome, and has me anticipating release more than ever before. I guess that’s the problem with playing it so early, you have longer to wait until release L

Wait with assurance, you WILL love this game.

haven't read through this all yet, will do so during lunch and will add my thoughts on what he says.

Mitch Connor

http://www.winningelevenblog.com/news/pes-2009-editorial-going-back-to-its-roots/

Suff wrote:

They say some things are classics and are best left untouched, whereas some need to be constantly tweaked or updated. This has been the debate within the WE/Pro Evo community for years. There is a fine divide within the faithful followers of this beautiful game that has served them well for well over a decade now, with many believing that the title should remain true to its core gameplay and not deviate. Other however believe that the game should advance with the constant progression of technology even if its means trying new things.

Change…. It can be a scary thing for many. I am of the opposite breed, one that embraces change in video games and welcomes it with open arms even if it means that mistakes are made. After all, “Why do we fall, sir? So that we might learn to pick ourselves up.” said Alfred to Bruce Wayne. You are probably wondering right now, “Has our old friend Suff lost his mind? This is no PES 2009 preview!” There is a reason to this intro that will become apparent as you churn your way through these words.

Monday morning, walking through London to meet Adam I was thinking “Will Konami deliver this year or will I be left disappointed”. Either way, I was about to find out. Load up the system and you are met with a fresh new intro video that is much better than last year’s effort although still in the same “Art-Deco” style. Clearly more of a European branding influence on the game. All the menus in this game have been revamped and the game has been given a complete refresh. The menu system is much clearer and team selection is now using a rotational system that you will no doubt see in many of the Leipzig videos.

The Menu list was as we all know it with the exception of three new welcome additions; BECOME A LEGEND, LEGENDS (Online Variant) and MESSAGES (Talking to friends in-game via messages). Once we had gotten through all the menus, I popped straight into the Exhibition mode to load up Liverpool vs. Milan for a quick one player experience. A quick look through all the team options I didn’t spot anything new with regards to team customisation and formations etc. But getting through that I was then met with the faces of Torres and Gerrard, which I must say look even better than they did last year (Ronaldo looks phenomenal by the way). So instantly the graphical progress from last year is evident.

The match starts off with some nice cinematic type camera angles and nice graphical touches that are based around last year but the improved visuals make all the difference. The crowds are now blurred into the stadium by focusing solely on the players and action on the pitch, a great cinematic technique which means you avoid having to deal with the hassle and complexities of a good-looking crowd. The most obvious improvement in the stadiums is how good the grass now looks in the wide cam. Added to that that each stadium had its own different grass that wears during gameplay and you realise how much this game has come along graphically. Unfortunately a video of the game will not highlight this. The lighting effects in-game compliments the new improved visuals and varies depending on season and time of day. But along with the grass, the other key graphical improvement was the weather conditions, our build only had rain built in as it was 75% complete but it looks awesome. We are told that the final build will definitely have snow and frozen turf.

There are many other graphical touches including LED ad-boards, new animations unique to players (i.e. Ronaldo free-kick) and slight improvements to the player models. The animation set has also been expanded with a few new ones that we noticed during when performing skill moves, during tackles and all round player movement. But unfortunately the majority of players run with the same animation as last year although the game does feature individual running animations (mainly for more recognisable players). Taking a look at the camera options, Adam and I spotted two more. But disappointingly no sign of the Panning feature that I loved so dearly during the PS2 days. I am silently praying it makes the final cut. All the time playing I had completely forgotten about one of the primary reasons for out visit, Slow Down. Non-existent…. Absolutely no sign of it what so ever. We saw the rare frame rate drop for a millisecond, but that’s me being extremely harsh as the game flows flawlessly at what I assume to be 30 frames per second. Slow down in replays? Again, perfect and with the addition of some nice camera effects during replays (a bit Hollywood-esque)

Now let’s get into the real nitty-gritty, Gameplay. The minute you pick up the controller you notice that there is a significant difference between PES 2009 and its predecessor. Pace. Adam and I felt this game had a slower more conservative pace to it a la PES 5. Later on we decide it was more between PES 5 and 6. Big tick for Konami there, out the window goes the ridiculous arcade pace of PES 2008 that I absolutely refused to review (for those of you whom were wondering where my review for PES 2008 was last year - in the garbage). This time you can actually play a game of football, by passing and moving and simply enjoying the pace of the game.

Looking at the other aspects of play, one of the key improvements to the overall game is Ball Physics. This has had the knock-on effect of improving the game all-round. I thought it would be impossible for Konami to match what its rival had done with shooting this year, but they have really got it. The ball actually feels like it has weight on it and gone are those ridiculous shots from last year. You can only hit those if you connect perfectly. The ball also travels realistically on true-to-life trajectories mimicking what you would see in real life. During set-pieces you really get a feel of the ball physics improvements, as free-kicks take a lot of getting used to. Fill up the power meter half way and it’s too much!

Passing is slightly better with less of that “tuck, tuck, tuck” sound effect, however it’s still not quite organic enough. Being fair however this may be due to the fact that the trapping in this game has not been improved for years now. The new manual passing system is a welcome addition, but will take some getting used to as it relies entirely on the right analogue stick. But if it means less misplaced passes that sometimes have you furious at the game, then Hallelujah! Move the stick the in the direction you want to pass and the longer you hold it down the more weight on the pass.

Skill moves and player pace you ask? Skill moves now are now based on quick intricate-movements of the D-pad or left analogue in conjunction with holding down the R2/RT button. The R2 button is pretty useless in some of the lesser known players but pick Ronaldo and Messi and simple flicking of the stick will make you look like a king in front of all your mates. This is a much more intuitive control system, which allows players to manoeuvre their players based on their own natural accuracy and speed using a controller. Player pace is also realistic but this time players with pace can’t automatically burn a defender. Ryan Babel would be able to just edge out Zambrotta on the wing to whip in a cross, but when I switched him to the other side; he had more luck beating Maldini. Gone are the days of players with pace absolutely humiliating slower wing-backs.

There have also been some changes made to tackling in this game. The intensity that you hold or press the X/A button will decide what kind of standing tackles your player performs (bonus for SIXAXIS, DUALSHOCK 3 players). Goalkeepers worries? I can’t remember which PES it was that had seen the most improvement in goalkeepers, but this was almost on par with that. They respond well, rush off the line quickly to make themselves big and collect from a striker one on one. Even their reactions are better and when they smother it, they are always first on top of the ball. So, we give the crew at Konami another tick.

The big one though has always been artificial intelligence. It’s truly what makes or breaks a game in most cases. So how does PES 2009 compare to PES 2008. Well still no sign of TEAMVISION for me personally but there does seem to be some improvement in the player responses. I personally did have some issues with player positioning although that may be more down to tactics than AI faults. One issue I did have though was the lack of intelligent CPU controlled runs by players in front of me when in possession. Sometimes they made the moves, other times they were static waiting to receive a pass. Try to trigger the runs and there was almost no response until you were within 5 yards of the player. The other issue I had is that of defenders running in circles sometimes like their feared their lives when a player is running through. I was assured this is being addressed.

PS. I still can’t find TEAMVISION! Is it real?

Focusing on game modes specifically now, the Become a Legend mode is one that Europe has been anticipating for years. Konami were first to incorporate it in a football game (PS2- Japan only) however EA have now stolen the show and made a massive feature of it particularly with online play. So how does Konami react? Simple, a much deeper mode that last more than 4 seasons and gives you more control and customisation of your player attributes based on your own individual performances. Pass well in a game and your passing stats can go up quite a bit. Do it in practice and the increase is less significant but still enough to boost your stats. Consistently show poor heading ability and you will see that downwards arrow meaning your heading ability is going down.

So what’s the aim? Well create your player, start in a non-league side playing an introductory game and wait for the offers to come in from the league that you select first. Go to a mid-table club and you will find yourself warming the bench. Sign for a lower table side that may be in the relegation dog-fight and you may be the man to save them from the drop and get more first team action that helps your career progress. Get my jist? Unfortunately we couldn’t test the online variant of Become a Legend as the game’s online servers aren’t up and running. But we are told you can take your player online to play with friends.

“Master League, tell us all about it!”

Well unfortunately there isn’t much to report here as it’s predominantly based on last years. With that I mean the only change being that the transfer system in game is no longer a ridiculous wait with no hint as to what Club and Player requirements are and before you know it the transfer deadline has passed. These are now much easier with separate negotiations between you and the club and you and the player once the club accepts your offer. Also, no need to wait a whole day for an answer, the ticker means its almost instant so you can make more offers. Thank god, no more time putting in 5 offers before I actually get the Player!

So all in all PES 2009 sounds like the total package, given that there weren’t that many complaints. Well unfortunately given that it is a big improvement on PES 2008 isn’t really saying much, especially for PS3 players. Last years game was a shock to all fans and still remains an enigma to the WENB team. But Konami went back to its roots to make this game more playable and enjoyable, in an effort to make it much more of a simulation that all the previous titles were. This brings me back to the jargon I was talking about in the first paragraph which I’m sure most of you have forgotten by now! Should PES as a title change or deviate from the core gameplay system that has made it so successful in the last generation or should it remain faithful to it?

Picture this; You go to buy your first car; you see many in the dealership. All your friends have Golf GTI’s, a car that you know is brilliant with a great engine that has been well publicised and highly praised. Do you buy it because your mates have it and praise it? Do you buy it although you know that it is based on the old V6 engine and chassis, one that is superb but been around for 5 years? The car you are buying is brand new, fully loaded with options, fresh paint job and zero miles on the clock. It’s a dilemma….

Bottom line is that PES 2009 is a very good game. It is everything I expected it to be given that Konami only had one year to fix a whole host of problems that crippled their game last year. This is clearly what last year’s version should have delivered. But what used to be the games biggest strength I feel is now becoming its Achilles heel. It is now three years since next-gen systems appeared on the block, yet PES is still running on what is essentially a PS2 engine. Yes, the front-end is looking significantly better and there are new game modes but it remains at core a PS2 game. It was a successful engine and it is still highly enjoyable and almost classic. This will make many fans of the series rejoice and sing in glory, but for many others they will feel it hasn’t improved significantly enough. Next-gen requires completely revamped gameplay that supplies a much more real and immersive football experience. This is why I have stated many times in previous podcasts that PES 2010 will be a huge year for Konami. Add to the equation that their main rival is getting there… my worry is that although PES 2009 is a highly enjoyable game with a host of all new features and great classic gameplay, Konami are one year behind with a lot of catching up to do. Its time for change, even if mistakes are made along the way. As Alfred told Bruce Wayne… we all learn from our mistakes and it makes us stronger.

Fans of the series will enjoy PES 2009, because it has gone back to its essence in a good way. But don’t expect a revolution; this is an evolution and a much needed one.

All the best,

Suff

Oman

sounds good, hopefully it'll be as they say, i loved PES5 and 6 so this should be brilliant

Balfa

Bahh. Just been looking at some of the videos available on www.winningelevenblog.com. The play seems to be very similar to 2008, just looking at it. Maybe it's a bit slower, but it doesn't seem like much.

The two main differences look like being that the defenders can pick the ball more successfully while pressing, and the ball does seem to have more substance to it, especially during crosses.

Check out the goal towards the end of this video, though... http://www.winningelevenblog.com/news/gamespot-pes-2009-video-feature/

More catastrophic goalkeeping

I'm a lot less excited now than I was this morning.

Mitch Connor

I felt a little let down by the gameplay videos, but then some of the previews I have read have stated that the game does look similar to PES2008, but it doesn't play like it - you hvae to play it to notice the difference.

However, I was on WENB this morning and I am worried. There appear to be two very different builds. Both Adam and Suff, who were impressed and loved what they played, say the gameplay videos do no justice to the game at all - but all that the game appears to be faster, the ball physics less impressive and the keepers and defenders are not as good either. I know Adam and Suff (and theBoss on PESfan for instance) played a later build than what is being demoed at Leipzig, but I hope the build they played is indicitve of the final game (based on their impressions) and that the version at Leipzig is not.

m83

Great posts Tauren, keep em coming

Balfa

Okay, I just read that article on WENB now as well. Hopefully the one they playtested is the one we'll get

Still... what are those Konami muppets playing at?

Mitch Connor

Balfa wrote: »

Okay, I just read that article on WENB now as well. Hopefully the one they playtested is the one we'll get

Still... what are those Konami muppets playing at?

who the hell knows - their PR team is all over the place. I am sure Adam is very unimpressed, given that he knows their job (does the same job for Ubi i think)

NotWormBoy

Improving gameplay but not interface or Master League. I'll take it, and hopefully the gameplay will rock, but I really would like more of an effort put into ML and licensing.

Still optimistically hopeful.

dar83

The video's dont have me too excited either to be honest.

I've heard the differing views as well, and even taking the different builds into account, some things just dont sit right. I like Adam, I've known him for years through Evo-Web and IRC etc... but himself and Suff tend to gloss over some things when it comes to PES now. They're incredibly excited about it, so it must at least be decent, but they were as excited if not moreso about 2008, and we know how that turned out.

I'll be interested to see how thr new J:League on the PS2 turns out compared to 2009. Just waiting on it now myself, have to dust off the old PS2.

Fingleberries

I have to admit - I was converted to PES from FIFA with PES 5. Sure, the graphics weren't as good, the presentation was a bit SNES-y and you had to put up with Man Red and Liddypool, etc., but it played a hell of a game of footy and was great craic to play with a few mates. It was a guaranteed must-have purchase. No more FIFA for me, thank you very much.

Then when I got my 360, first game I got was PES 6. While still playing a great game of footy, it was badly hobbled and options were missing that even the PS2 had!

PES2008 promised to be so much better and be a true next-gen experience and we all know how that turned out. It still played a very good game of footy, but it had gone to some extremes that just didn't feel right (super dribbling, dopey defenders and cack-handed Goalies). I won't even go to the frame-rate and online play debacles.

From the playtest reports and the videos I've seen so far, they seem to have fixed a lot of the frame rate issues and the Keepers seem better. It has been described as more in common with PES 5 from the Playstation 2 than the last two games. Which on one hand sounds great but when you look at it, it means that you're playing a 3-4 year old game with a minor cosmetic face-lift and the odd gameplay tweak - The Master League is still the same as it was in PES 4 (more or less). They're calling this as the game that PES2008 should have been.

After the last two disappointing titles, and the fact that a lot of the preview talk is the same as last year (which failed to mention a lot of the shortcomings in the game). I think this has become a 'wait and see' purchase - I'll probably end up buying it at some stage, but not until I've had a chance to hear what the overall verdict is on Net-play, etc.


FIFA was shown up by the earlier PES series to be the arcadey mess that it was, and they've been doing great work to try to catch up and overtake by using the Next Gen technologies in the new consoles to their advantage (5 on 5 play over live, yay!) - but while everyone praised FIFA 08 for being less arcadey and challening PES (an overexaggeration, sure, but they were moving in the right direction). The one thing that they forgot to mention was that FIFA 08 didn't feel Fun - it felt like a slog to get a goal. PES still had the advantage of playing a better game of Footy.


This time round EA have continued to tweak FIFA and add new gameplay bits and pieces, which could be great if it is fun. Konami have gone back to the PS2 version for inspiration and we're being told that PES2010 is the real one that will have all the bells and whistles in it ... Pardon me while I save my €60 this year, then. Thanks Konami.


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P.S. please don't lynch me for mentioning FIFA here :pac:

Nailz

I'm enjoying Tauren's obsession with the upcoming Pro Evo.

Mitch Connor

Fingleberries wrote: »

I have to admit - I was converted to PES from FIFA with PES 5. Sure, the graphics weren't as good, the presentation was a bit SNES-y and you had to put up with Man Red and Liddypool, etc., but it played a hell of a game of footy and was great craic to play with a few mates. It was a guaranteed must-have purchase. No more FIFA for me, thank you very much.

Then when I got my 360, first game I got was PES 6. While still playing a great game of footy, it was badly hobbled and options were missing that even the PS2 had!

PES2008 promised to be so much better and be a true next-gen experience and we all know how that turned out. It still played a very good game of footy, but it had gone to some extremes that just didn't feel right (super dribbling, dopey defenders and cack-handed Goalies). I won't even go to the frame-rate and online play debacles.

From the playtest reports and the videos I've seen so far, they seem to have fixed a lot of the frame rate issues and the Keepers seem better. It has been described as more in common with PES 5 from the Playstation 2 than the last two games. Which on one hand sounds great but when you look at it, it means that you're playing a 3-4 year old game with a minor cosmetic face-lift and the odd gameplay tweak - The Master League is still the same as it was in PES 4 (more or less). They're calling this as the game that PES2008 should have been.

After the last two disappointing titles, and the fact that a lot of the preview talk is the same as last year (which failed to mention a lot of the shortcomings in the game). I think this has become a 'wait and see' purchase - I'll probably end up buying it at some stage, but not until I've had a chance to hear what the overall verdict is on Net-play, etc.


FIFA was shown up by the earlier PES series to be the arcadey mess that it was, and they've been doing great work to try to catch up and overtake by using the Next Gen technologies in the new consoles to their advantage (5 on 5 play over live, yay!) - but while everyone praised FIFA 08 for being less arcadey and challening PES (an overexaggeration, sure, but they were moving in the right direction). The one thing that they forgot to mention was that FIFA 08 didn't feel Fun - it felt like a slog to get a goal. PES still had the advantage of playing a better game of Footy.


This time round EA have continued to tweak FIFA and add new gameplay bits and pieces, which could be great if it is fun. Konami have gone back to the PS2 version for inspiration and we're being told that PES2010 is the real one that will have all the bells and whistles in it ... Pardon me while I save my €60 this year, then. Thanks Konami.


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EDIT
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P.S. please don't lynch me for mentioning FIFA here :pac:

I have to say that I am very interested in the comparrisons of PES5 and PES09, and peoples reactions to it.

Many view PES5 as one of the best football games ever made - I know people who still play it now over more recent PES and FIFA incarnations. So, PES5 could claim to have the gameplay spot on. If this is the case, how much improvement should be possible in terms of gameplay for a football title acclaimed to be one of the best. Football has not changed - so how much can a game that is an accurate representation of it? Surely once a developer gets it 'right', then they CAN only tweak it and add modes/options?

I'll grant, processing power can improve AI and physics, but still - how much can a game based on a real life aspect improve year on year?

Fingleberries

Tauren wrote: »

I have to say that I am very interested in the comparrisons of PES5 and PES09, and peoples reactions to it.

Many view PES5 as one of the best football games ever made - I know people who still play it now over more recent PES and FIFA incarnations. So, PES5 could claim to have the gameplay spot on. If this is the case, how much improvement should be possible in terms of gameplay for a football title acclaimed to be one of the best. Football has not changed - so how much can a game that is an accurate representation of it? Surely once a developer gets it 'right', then they CAN only tweak it and add modes/options?

I'll grant, processing power can improve AI and physics, but still - how much can a game based on a real life aspect improve year on year?

Quite true ... I thoroughly enjoyed PES 5 and instantly won me over to the PES side.

So that means we'll have cut Konami some slack for PES '09 and expect major Graphics, AI and Mode changes in 2010. Although it is still sounding like PES '09 is only the game that PES '08 was supposed to be.

There are still ways to innovate and improve a game year on year without having to change the real life aspect of the game. For example Fifa 09 is boasting 10 v 10 online play Source:Gamesradar.com (no 11 v 11, 'cos who wants to be a Goalie??? ... but it may still be on the way)

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P.S. Apologies if I derailed this thread a little. It is an excellent centralised place to get feedback on the early playtests reviewers have had a chance to get their hands on with the game... Jammy gits that they are

dar83

It's funny how you guys are hailing the days of PES5, when back when it came out there were a lot (and I mean a lot) of people who despised it. Personally I found it to be the best PES there has been and although imo WE8:FE did beat it, thats not something the masses have had the pleasure of and a tangent. haha.
People complained about PES5 being too defensive and too difficult to score, I personally found it to be the best challenge and also most properly balanced PES there has been, so I can see where you guys are coming from.
That is the one major positive I'm taking from the previews of 2009, if it's like PES5 but shinier, then it'll et my vote. Unfortunately the videos do nothing to convince me of that fact, it looks like a slightly slower 2008, and I cant see much more. Hopefully some longer and more detailed videos get released by people soon.

m83

After reading all of these playtest reports i have but one thing to say.. Roll on FIFA. Sounds to me like konami couldn't organise a pisz up in a brewery.

pesireland

I Don't trust reviews from game magazine etc any more, i'd rather play test the game for myself when its released.

Smegball

The two main things I'm hoping for really is improved online and the computer to offer more of a challenge, if the game is as laggy as PES08 I think I may switch to FIFA tbh.

Nailz

I'm just looking forward to the Become A Legend thing, hope it works out.

Mikeyt086

None of those gigantic essays have settled my stomach.

I really want PES2009 to be good. I wont judge untill i play.

Blazer

Fingleberries wrote: »

FIFA was shown up by the earlier PES series to be the arcadey mess that it was, and they've been doing great work to try to catch up and overtake by using the Next Gen technologies in the new consoles to their advantage (5 on 5 play over live, yay!) - but while everyone praised FIFA 08 for being less arcadey and challening PES (an overexaggeration, sure, but they were moving in the right direction). The one thing that they forgot to mention was that FIFA 08 didn't feel Fun - it felt like a slog to get a goal. PES still had the advantage of playing a better game of Footy.


This time round EA have continued to tweak FIFA and add new gameplay bits and pieces, which could be great if it is fun. Konami have gone back to the PS2 version for inspiration and we're being told that PES2010 is the real one that will have all the bells and whistles in it ... Pardon me while I save my €60 this year, then. Thanks Konami.


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EDIT
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P.S. please don't lynch me for mentioning FIFA here :pac:

You're talking ****e there my son..Fifa08 blew PES away last year. True the PS2 versions were good but the 360/PS3 versions were brutal.
I played both and Fifa was miles better..even a load of my die-hard PES mates all bought Fifa once they opened their brain cell and gave the game a chance.
This year Fifa's gonna win again and Konami are saying "PES2010 is the one".
Hmm..seems all very familiar. Oh yeah..last year" PES2009 is the one"
The thing is I want PES to be good..it forces EA to raise the bar and improve upon their previous ****e versions.
I'll probably end up buying both and see how they pan out. Although I might hold off on PES and check the 2nd hand bins in a few weeks :P

Mitch Connor

Mathew Reilly wrote: »

You're talking ****e there my son..Fifa08 blew PES away last year. True the PS2 versions were good but the 360/PS3 versions were brutal.
I played both and Fifa was miles better..even a load of my die-hard PES mates all bought Fifa once they opened their brain cell and gave the game a chance.
This year Fifa's gonna win again and Konami are saying "PES2010 is the one".
Hmm..seems all very familiar. Oh yeah..last year" PES2009 is the one"
The thing is I want PES to be good..it forces EA to raise the bar and improve upon their previous ****e versions.
I'll probably end up buying both and see how they pan out. Although I might hold off on PES and check the 2nd hand bins in a few weeks :P

I disagree - I have both Fifa and PES 08, and PES08 is more enjoyable.

Crappy shooting and sluggish control in FIFA put me off, and I played a lot of FIFA cause PES was a disappointment - still managed to be better then FIFA though.