Is this man an idiot?

Nolanger

Fine Gael politician Mr Hayes in 2004 proposed:

"that a new national public holiday for the specific purpose of celebrating multi-culturalism in Ireland be established."

Page 10:
http://www.michaelpidgeon.com/manifestos/party/fg/Fine%20Gael%20LE%20(Dublin)%202004.pdf

Now he wants segration in schools for immigrants who can't speak English:
http://www.rte.ie/news/2008/0819/education.html

Terry

Aye.

Let's create a ghetto.

phasers

yes

admiralofthefleet

Terry wrote: »

Aye.

Let's create a ghetto.

ever been to dolphins barn?

dlofnep

Is this man an idiot?

Nolanger wrote: »

Fine Gael politician

Yes.

Terry

admiralofthefleet wrote: »

ever been to dolphins barn?

Not recently.

phasers

admiralofthefleet wrote: »

ever been to dolphins barn?

Or Lucan

wyndham

Nolanger wrote: »

Fine Gael politician Mr Hayes in 2004 proposed:

"that a new national public holiday for the specific purpose of celebrating multi-culturalism in Ireland be established."

Page 10:
http://www.michaelpidgeon.com/manifestos/party/fg/Fine%20Gael%20LE%20(Dublin)%202004.pdf

Now he wants segration in schools for immigrants who can't speak English:
http://www.rte.ie/news/2008/0819/education.html

I don't see your point. It's hardly segregation, rather a concentrated english course in preparation for joining classes that will be taught exclusively through English. It would benefit the students in question greatly and the main classes would not be held up.

Terry

phasers wrote: »

Or Lucan

I've been to Lucan.
What's your point?

phasers

Terry wrote: »

I've been to Lucan.
What's your point?

The superquinn there is brilliant

jahalpin

I see nothing wrong with his basic idea, he could perhaps, have phrased it better

Classes in state schools are already quite large and when the teacher has to spend teaching time going over the basics which the "native" children have already been taught in previous years, it reduces the overall level of education being provided for the entire class.

In third-level courses no exemptions are made for non-english speaking students, students from non-english speaking countries must provide proof of a sufficient understanding of the english language before enrolling on a course. If required, these students are offered additional english language classes outside of the normal curriculum.

Placing non-english speaking children in separate classes would be of benefit to the entire community as when they have attended the required standards they could be integrated with the normal classes

Another way to integrate the immigrants would be to make them learn Irish, the Irish children have to "suffer" it for their entire primary and secondary education and this would help to fully integrate them into the Irish educational system.

MooseJam

If they can't speak the language they should be deported

Wreck

MooseJam wrote: »

If they can't speak the language they should be deported

Yeah, anyone who can't speak fluent Irish should be deported.

phasers

Wreck wrote: »

Yeah, anyone who can't speak fluent Irish should be deported.

Can we choose where we get deported to?

wyndham

MooseJam wrote: »

If they can't speak the language they should be deported

What language? Irish or English?

kowloon

Wreck wrote: »

Yeah, anyone who can't speak fluent Irish should be deported.

Imagining scenes of an uninhabited Dublin with 28 days later theme...

phasers

kowloon wrote: »

Imagining scenes of an uninhabited Dublin with 28 days later theme...

A nation of Irish teachers :eek:

jahalpin

Wreck wrote: »

Yeah, anyone who can't speak fluent Irish should be deported.

The country would be fairly empty if that happened. Very few people are actually fluent in Irish. Galway would probably be the biggest city

dsmythy

For his first suggestion he is an idiot. I was going to call him an idiot for the other one but looking at it now, it makes sense.

cailin06

I agree that immigrant children should be taught english BEFORE they are introduced into mainstream schools. Having witnessed many Eastern European children left to their own defences in school, not a word of english and no way to communicate with anyone. It's unfair on the teachers and it's unfair on these children.

Fad

phasers wrote: »

Can we choose where we get deported to?

''I'm sorry Sir your Irish just isn't at a sufficient level. Now off to Barbados with ya''

javaboy

I know a few teachers and they all agree that there's a need for some kind of short induction into Irish education and Irish social culture in general for a lot of foreign kids who arrive from very different cultures. Sometimes it's simple things like getting used to not talking in class.

Guy:Incognito

Terry wrote: »

I've been to Lucan.
What's your point?

It was a Ghetto that day. Not so much after you left though.

m83

I were an idiot, once...

McSandwich

On the first issue he may be an idiot but anyone who would refuse another public holiday is an even bigger idiot.

On the schools idea, it's very difficult to say anything on this subject without someone getting insulted on behalf of someone else. This is a real problem and something needs to be done to ensure the best possible education for all involved. As education spokesman, if he didn't have any ideas or was afraid to say something, then he really would be an idiot.

javaboy

McSandwich wrote: »

On the first issue he may be an idiot but anyone who would refuse another public holiday is an even bigger idiot.

On the schools idea, it's very difficult to say anything on this subject without someone getting insulted on behalf of someone else. This is a real problem and something needs to be done to ensure the best possible education for all involved. As education spokesman, if he didn't have any ideas or was afraid to say something, then he really would be an idiot.

Good points. From a purely practical point of view, it's silly to put non-English speaking kids into an English speaking class and expect them not to have problems. It's a very sensible idea but would have to be very carefully introduced so as not to cause segregation.

McSandwich

javaboy wrote: »

Good points. From a purely practical point of view, it's silly to put non-English speaking kids into an English speaking class and expect them not to have problems. It's a very sensible idea but would have to be very carefully introduced so as not to cause segregation.

Yeah, it should only be temporary until the kids involved get up to speed. 'Segregation' was an unfortunate word to use (it was sensationalised on every news report today and took away from the actual idea), but I'd imagine there are plenty of kids who feel isolated within their class group because they cannot communicate with their classmates or understand lessons. In the long term this can only lead to further social isolation and ghettoisation.

Toto Wolfcastle

phasers wrote: »

A nation of Irish teachers :eek:

Oi! We're not that bad!

Seriously though, it is extremely unfair on everyone that teachers have to move at a slower rate for those with limited English when, in a lot of cases, it makes little difference. What's the point in sitting in a class and not understanding a word that is being said? Immersion? Yeah, but it's extremely difficult to focus on both learning the language and learning the subject matter at the same time.

Sully

dlofnep wrote: »

Yes.

I think most people would say the same about most Sinn Fein politicians tbh.

I think its an unfair comparsement in the original post there. Whatever about the 2004 proposal, I think temporary putting kids asside is probably an apporiate thing to do all things considered. Also, you will see the teachers union and the government support the idea.

Redpunto

The kids shouldnt be in mainstream class until they have an understanding of ENglish so that they can keep up with the class without the teacher having to put extra time in explaining things just becuase of the lack of fluency.

Sully

jahalpin wrote: »

I see nothing wrong with his basic idea, he could perhaps, have phrased it better

Classes in state schools are already quite large and when the teacher has to spend teaching time going over the basics which the "native" children have already been taught in previous years, it reduces the overall level of education being provided for the entire class.

In third-level courses no exemptions are made for non-english speaking students, students from non-english speaking countries must provide proof of a sufficient understanding of the english language before enrolling on a course. If required, these students are offered additional english language classes outside of the normal curriculum.

Placing non-english speaking children in separate classes would be of benefit to the entire community as when they have attended the required standards they could be integrated with the normal classes

Another way to integrate the immigrants would be to make them learn Irish, the Irish children have to "suffer" it for their entire primary and secondary education and this would help to fully integrate them into the Irish educational system.

Pretty much sums things up. I think Brian played a poor choice of words but the concept seems about right.