fear-aggression

Vas_Guy

I would like some advice on the following, a friend of mine's bitch had a litter both parents have exceptional temperment, one of the pups she sold has started having problems so the new owners are returing her. here is the story.

Pup is homed at 9weeks old

Pups gets on fine with new family started socialising, etc all well

then she gets this email.

Pup barks at vet at 9 weeks vet warns them

2 weeks ago started barking and lunging at people

Barks at postman

fine around the mother of the family calm and relaxed and ignores the rest of the family

dog behaviourist said its fear aggression

bit one of the kids for no reason, just got up and bit him

I think the new owner caused the problem by treating the dog like a human and the dog now feel as he is head of the pack or equal to the owner, now the pup is unsure where he stands.

the breeder is very upset about the situation as the pup was fine when he left what when wrong from all well to returning the pup which is now 4 months ?

Dog is a german shepherd

Noopti

bit one of the kids for no reason, just got up and bit him

Puppies will chew/bite things. So make sure they aren't confusing this behavior with aggression. Although it needs to be made aware that it must only chew it's toys, and not people or possessions.

It is strange for puppies to bark a lot at such a young age. Maybe these people should invest in a course of puppy training/discipline classes?

peasant

Vas_Guy wrote: »

dog behaviourist said its fear aggression

Dog behaviourist is talking out of his/her behind. This dog is four months old and doesn't know what fear-agression is.

Proper socialisation of the dog and training of the owners is the issue

Noopti

http://www.dogtrainingireland.ie/home.php

Sounds like a case of people going in over their head here. They obviously don't know how to train and discipline a young dog, especially a German Shepard. They shouldn't have taken the dog in the 1st place without proper knowledge of how to raise it really.

Whispered

peasant wrote: »

Dog behaviourist is talking out of his/her behind. This dog is four months old and doesn't know what fear-agression is.

How old does a dog have to be before it can develop agressive tendancies?

carwash_2006

Puppies go through a period between 8-12 weeks where they are super sensitive and frightened by things more easily. If the vet was maybe a little less than understanding and the pup got rewarded for this by people backing off and giving him the space he wanted. So he learned very quickly that barking and acting in an aggresive manner gets him a little space.

I am always very suspicious of anyone saying that a dog just got up and bit a kid with no provocation. Was there an adult in the room and were they paying attention, kids do sometimes treat dogs in a manner that is looking for something to happen, but they may not want to admit that when something happens. Or if there was an adult in the room, if they weren't paying full attention they may not have noticed something that was likely to trigger the dog, the kid may have been doing something that should not have triggered the dog, but if the dog has not been given the right kind of guidance you can't really blame it.

www.dogtrainingireland.ie are very good and would really be able to assess the dog and help.

a2dg

i myslef have a 11month old german sheperd, and the only time he ever starts to act up is if for some reason (which is once in a blue moon) he doesn't get a walk in a day or two. As for the puppy "biting" the child i don't believe it happened as they claimed, the puppy simply doesn't have hands , he/she interacts with its mouth , every pup is at some point going to nip a little too hard that were training comes in. Once the dog "nips" simple say "NO" and ignore the dog for a few mins completely.

I agree with the above poster the dog trainer is talking complete crap about fear agreesion. Good exercise with strict handling and their should be no problems , lets not forget this is a young dog that needs guidence....

peasant

helena.ryan wrote: »

How old does a dog have to be before it can develop agressive tendancies?

About a week?
Every dog has aggressive tendencies, aggression is a natural part of their social make up. To develop fully fledged fear-aggression however, that takes a good few months of failed socialisation and familiarisation with its environement.

Vas_Guy

Here is the follow up:

Dog was collected from the owner, barked at us then she went behind the new owner, then gradually came forward and was friendly.

The new owner said that she was barking, lunging and trying to nip people when she was brought for a walk.

Barked at the vet at 9 weeks according to new owner.

Bit one of the kids for no reason.

We left her by herself yesterday in a big outdoor run and when we fed the other dogs she was fed last and then i took the food off her and gave it back to her again to see if it invoked an aggressive response it did not, to be honest I did not think it would but just wanted to check.

Another complaint was barking at the postman, she was in the yard today and saw the postman come in and go and she did not bark.

She was in the back yard today, I went up to the gate and looked in, she backed off and barked, maybe protective instinct.

I brought her into the park today and she did bark at a couple who were at a distance, I tuged her lead and said no, then she barked at another man, I corrected her the same way, the man sat down on a bench so I passed by him and made her sit then walk and i did the same for other people in the park, she did not bark at anyone else, I then passed by people sitting on a bench and she did not pass any notice, she did look and was curious as expected but no barking.
The new owners said that they did plenty of socialisation.

I had her in the back of the car in a busy shopping centre, people came to drive off and park their cars both sides of me and she did not bark at them.

Regarding children, under supervision the breeders children could pet her, she licked them, they even took her by the collar and walked her out of the house.

I cannot see any signs of aggression.

I think she was barking at people out of fear.

I know its early days, and I'm taking one step at a time, I did not bring her into town yet.

I feel the new owners are holding something back, exaggerating or something was done to the dog. The new owners stayed in contact with the breeder by eamail and all was fine no problems then suddenly this.

The new owners believe that the dog feels she has to protect and is getting stressed out by it. She said that people in her town were jumping out of the way of the dog and now she has a complex, in time I'm going to walk teh dog through that town and see the response.

Pups is 4 months old.

peasant

Vas_Guy wrote: »

The new owners believe that the dog feels she has to protect and is getting stressed out by it.

My diagnosis is that the new owners have had one too many dog whisperers / dog nannies spoil their common sense. They're expecting a four month old pup to be a perfectly formed dog and are confusing the poor thing with snippets of "training/correction" that they cought off the telly ...and they're doing it all wrong.

From where I'm sitting that pup sounds like a perfectly normal dog, it's the owners that need their heads put right.

Vas_Guy

peasant wrote: »

My diagnosis is that the new owners have had one too many dog whisperers / dog nannies spoil their common sense. They're expecting a four month old pup to be a perfectly formed dog and are confusing the poor thing with snippets of "training/correction" that they cought off the telly ...and they're doing it all wrong.

From where I'm sitting that pup sounds like a perfectly normal dog, it's the owners that need their heads put right.

Glad to hear I'm not the only one with this thought

peasant

Well ..the line I quoted is Jan Fennell :D:D ...but I bet if you interview the owners some more you'll probably find excerpts from other "wisperers" and "listeners"

Little A

Hi, I have a similar problem.

I adopted a small collie/terrier cross pup (about 4.5 to 6 months old)

she had a tough start, she was found about 2.5 months agos abandonded, starving, almost hairless and in a bad state and has been with a foster mom for the last 2 months. She's adorable & we were lucky enough to be able to adopt her.

99% of the time she is a pleasure....but she can be abit aggressive & the BIG problem is that it is unpredicable. She lets out a growl and she means it !! She literally squared up to me the other morning (she's had a wee accident, I brought her outside and came back in to clean up mess, forgot to take off lead & remembered 5 mins later& went to take it off her....totally squared up to me, growling and advancing towards me. Left room & closed door & tried agains 5 mins later...squared up to me again.....I never got cross or angry with her).

Most of the time you can play, hug, pet her....but every now and again she takes exception (for no apparent reason).

My problem is my kids are young....7,9 and 10. I've told them they need to be careful as she's been through alot and they are!! But she does let out the odd growl and advanced to them....I reallly don't want them scared off as they have longed for a pup for so long. And obviously, don't want her to attack them or anyone else. She has managed a few well meaning nips on me! ( I can handle it at this stage)

She had her vac's a few days ago & the vet got very concerned when he heard her growl at one one the kids...who had done nothing wrong. He reckoned she must have had something very traumatic happen & couldn't say if she could overcome it....he reckoned the next few months very critical.

Soooo....anyone any advice.
- calm & easy until she gets used to us
- dog training
- dog councelling ( vets suggestion)
- anythng else??????

Obviously, I don't want it to get out of hand but it has to be sorted, so all advice welcome.

Little A

..

Little A

..

peasant

Little A wrote: »

Most of the time you can play, hug, pet her....but every now and again she takes exception (for no apparent reason).

Soooo....anyone any advice.
- calm & easy until she gets used to us
- dog training
- dog councelling ( vets suggestion)
- anythng else??????

Very difficult to diagnose over the internet ...but basically it sounds like she connects certain movements with bad experiences that she's had before.

(You towering over her, going for her neck (trying to get the lead off) would be one of them)

Calm & easy certainly is the most important thing to do right now.

It probably wouldn't do any harm to get an experienced doggy person (trainer/breeder/rescue worker) to observe her in her environement and take note of the kind of actions that make her uneasy, so that you can avoid those as much as possible.

Also I would suggest that you spend quite some time with her at her level when interacting with her. Sit down on the floor when playing with her or petting her ...don't force her to play/cuddle but let her come to you.
The same goes for your children ...but under strict supervision of course!
Also with the lead, putting it on and taking it off ...honker down, call her to you and gently take it off ...lots of praise when she stays calm.

When she does growl at something/someone ...tell her to shush but don't shout at her, try and calm her down while telling her to shut up. You have children, so I guess you know how to de-escalate a situation gently

Little A

Thanks Pheasant,

I'm pretty much doing as you've advised....I know she will take some time to settle, I guess the fact the vet was concerned, concerned me....especially with kids in the house.

The problem with getting someone to look at her is that I'll look like a liar!!! As I say, 99% of the time she is lovely, but when she growls, she means it!!

She will need some training and will probably do some agility stuff with her as she is smart & will need to be kept entertained. Can anyone recommend a reasonable priced course (look at one recommended above but they charge €165 for 4 classes....I thought that seemed excessive)

Thanks

peasant

Well ...there IS another option.
The growling might not be fear/bad memories at all ...she may simply be on her way to becoming a troublesome "teenager" ...in which case a decisive putting her into her place would do the trick.

But I wouldn't really want to say which of the two options it is ....certainly not without having observed the dog for a while.

The Sweeper

Little A, I know others might disagree with me, but you shouldn't have backed down when your dog squared up to you when you went to take her lead off.

You'll know aggression related to fear, because at the same time the dog's snarling at you it's also cringing - its tail will be down, between its legs, it may even try to roll over while still stripping its teeth at you. It'll hunch down and back away from your hand.

Squaring up to you and coming for you is really disturbing - that doesn't sound like it's related to fear - that sounds like she was pissed off about being brought outside and then back in with no walk, and she was going to let you have it!!

Her growling at your kids is also extremely worrying.

She may have had a hard start in life, but you need to be very careful that you don't try and make up for that start by spoiling her rotten. You may need to go right back to dog-behaviour 101 with her, to ensure that one day she doesn't take the face off one of your children.

If she's a collie-terrier cross, then she's intelligent and belligerent - a bit of a nightmare to be honest. She'll need a lot of interaction, but a very stern hand - so not just a lot of being loved up, but a lot of being told what to do, then praised when she does it, and told off if she doesn't.

Get help with controlling her, and don't give her an INCH!

BlackCat2008

Sounds like everyone has nervous aggressive dogs, this is a real problem if you do not nip it in the bud at a young age, you are also looking at food aggression and bitting when strangers go to pet them when out.

I took over one that had bit twice before she was a year old and looking at being pts as she was really out of hand. I tryed every thing even had to put her out to clean or refill her food bowls/bed and had to muzzle her when out.

I spoke to a behaviourist and he said there wasn't much hope because she had bit but I gave her one last chance and used the dog whisper method and within two weeks I was already seeing big changes, to use this method you must study it properly, not just glance over it, it does work with properly educating your self with it.

For now until you's get hold of the book/DVD hears some tips, pick one person only to handle the dog this includes walking, feeding, training and cleaning up after them, the handler must be assertive and show no fear when the dogs are aggressive.

Always remain calm and assertive when the dog growls or nips and show them in your face and body language you are not happy with the behaver and with out shouting say no and walk away do this every five minutes until they calm down then show them by calming down they get rubs and treats and that the problem in the first place got them no were by growling and by stopping they got lots of love for behaving nice towards you.

Always remain calm and don't forget to interact with them in a playful but not hyper manner when there is no problems. As the handler they must see you as boss and make a connection with you as family like they know you understand they are frightened but there's nothing to be afraid off from there on in they will always look to you to tell them what the right thing to do is, this makes for a happier dog and helps you bond. Show them nothing but kindness and understanding but do not spoil them. Watch what makes them happy and try to join in and keep the fun going this shows them you want to be part of there life and bond with them it should never be all one sided IE.(what you want to play or do all the time, they will surprise you by allowing you to join in and will even find a way for you to join in IE. by rolling a ball to you so you can roll it back)

If a dog doesn't know what to expect it will do it's own thing, growl and try to stand it's own ground instead of trusting you or bite or nip in the hope this makes the people back of and be left alone, cower in a corner in the hope that whats going on will go away or hide in the hope if he can't see you, you can't see him and he'll be left alone.

You need to teach him straight forward words for every situation so he knows what to expect or he'll get nervous and react the only way he figures the situation will go away.

My girl knows bed is for her to go to it when the other dogs have to go out or she is not needed to guard me or want her out of the way till I say so. Bed to her means go and stay and don't leave till told or mammy/boss will not be happy about it and she doesn't get rubs or treats she's brilliant and does whats asked of her in return for rubs and play and is very happy. Sit means lead is going on or off or calm down, she is a quick learner I find most aggressive dogs are highly intelligent and try to be the boss but are much happier to learn you are the boss and make a connection with you. The connection is the most important thing of all the dog must feel he is not alone in this world but has mammy /boss to fall back on.

The vet that didn't like to see the pup bark should be sacked or reported, the pup was only reacting to some thing he's not familiar with, and was probably frightened to dead at the new people and surroundings, my vet was told when I brought my girl to him she was nervous aggressive and would remain muzzled while he cut her nails and the first thing he did was sit on the floor and call her over and she seemed to fall in love with him and always seems to remember him when we go back, does everything he asks of her and still has a wag in her tail for him when he is finish with her thats a good vet.

Show your dog were it stands and don't forget that a pup from around three months to, they say sometimes 9 months sometimes a year is teeting so keep in mind how much pain they are in and that it can cause nervous problems and ear ache so think baby making strange when in a new environments and meeting new people it is better to show them you don't want to frighten them by taking them out of the situation than forcing them to put up with it. It helps them see you as the protector and that they can look up to you when probloms arise.

Sorry for the long post.

peasant

BlackCat2008 wrote: »

Sounds like everyone has nervous aggressive dogs, this is a real problem if you do not nip it in the bud at a young age, you are also looking at food aggression and bitting when strangers go to pet them when out.

Not directed at you personally, just a general remark:

Why is it always the dog that gets the label ...aggressive, nervous, difficult, "problem dog", dominant, etc?


Dogs are dogs and as such not really that difficult to understand or train for that matter. Give them clear rules, consistency in your behaviour and their sorroundings and a routine and they will fit in perfectly. If ever anything upsets this or something new and unfamiliar happens, it is up to the owner to provide leadership and all is well again ...don't just expect the dog to cope as expected all by itself.

In 99.9% of all cases of "problematic" dogs, it is never the dog that caused the problem, always the owner. The dog just displays the symptoms of ineffective leadership ...and gets the blame for it on top of it all.

BlackCat2008

peasant wrote: »

Not directed at you personally, just a general remark:

Why is it always the dog that gets the label ...aggressive, nervous, difficult, "problem dog", dominant, etc?


Dogs are dogs and as such not really that difficult to understand or train for that matter. Give them clear rules, consistency in your behaviour and their surroundings and a routine and they will fit in perfectly. If ever anything upsets this or something new and unfamiliar happens, it is up to the owner to provide leadership and all is well again ...don't just expect the dog to cope as expected all by itself.

In 99.9% of all cases of "problematic" dogs, it is never the dog that caused the problem, always the owner. The dog just displays the symptoms of ineffective leadership ...and gets the blame for it on top of it all.

Well said, I'm dreadful at explaining things.

I wasn't labelling, but I do feel the dogs have developed a nervous aggressive behaver due to lack of care and training and left untrained it does develop into far worse problems.

My girl was first nervous aggressive then food aggressive, she is still both but under complete control now.

I totally agree that it is peoples faults that dogs turn out this way and it is the dogs that pay the price for it in the long run. My girl is muzzled every time she leaves the house and people don't seem to see she is muzzled and still go to pet her before asking (she has a bright red muzzle can't miss it) I never say oh I'm so sorry she went for you, I say did you not see the muzzle and think it was there for the fun of it, it's as much about cop on as anything. The first time she went for some one was two drunk men who went to pet her she nearly eat them, I followed back her history and found the mother dog was owned by an alcaholc woman who did nothing but shout and scream at them, the mother dog is lovely and well taken care of but my girl is smart and must have picked up on this from the start and that's were the problems began then she went to a home were she peed every were when some one showed her attention and left to her own devises as a new baby came into the house again left with out training and had to handle being alone all the time so she tuck to protecting her food as well. I found when I tuck her over she went for people who went to rub her as they come at her she a beautiful dog and can attract a cowed in no time because of it and it scared her to death.

She hates men I'm not sure why as there are no man as such in her history, but she has a hell of a memory she remembers the vet and nearly drags me down the steps to go and see him and she only see's him may be three times a year, she also whinnies till I send my brother into her and she only might she him once or twice a year, as well as she still knows the drunk men she meet 7 years ago she meet about a year ago she was growling before I could even see them round the corner and when they appeared round the corner she went berserk.

I know alot of aggressive dogs and there all very intelligent maybe something that hasn't been picked up on yet by trainers or left untapped it turns to aggression. She would have made a great sniffer dog. But it's sad to see such dogs pts over people taking on what they are not prepared to handle.

It takes a lot to reassure a dog with this problem to see another side to how they handle things and better caught at a young age.

I also just turned a rough collie around have to say this one is not to bright but he went for me a few times and each time he was muzzled told no and put out he was about 11/2 when he came in but haven't had a problom with him since. I think he is just a nervouse dog in general and doesn't want to hurt anyone. But again he just needed guidients to turn him around, he was filty uneutered and under wieght when he came in and was most likely neglected given the mats in his coat takes a long time to get mats like that and is a nice dog now but will only go to some one who will handle him like I do or he'll just fall back to what he was.

Again this is down to people and you need to be able to tell the differents in the different probloms with aggression and something that is just developing and needs to be nipped in the bud.

Little A

Just had another instance with her - she followed my 7 year old upstairs (she not allowed up), called her & no response (she's not great at coming when called). So I went up & firmed said "down" to her (same thing I always say when she tries to go up). So I went to take her collar & she growled and snapped. Firmly said "no" & went to take collar (as not an option to leave her there & ignore) again & she again growled and snapped but I got hold of it and firmly brought her downstairs & put her putside. Trotted in like an angel 5 mins later!!

Obviously my kids have to be my first priority....I'm the only one she has snapped at. I will have a chat with the person from the SPCA tomorrow and see what may be the best thing to do. I'd hate to give up on her but maybe it would be the best thing for her to be in a more controlled environment (it's impossible for me to be the only one to interact with her in a house with 3 kids....but they are quiet good with her). I'm trying to be the boss but have to be honest, I'm getting abit nervous as it's not nice to be snapped at!

She is getting walked and she is being played with.

I fully agree that a badly behaved dog is generally down to a badly behaved owner!! My problem is I don't know what her initial owner did to her but she was in a bad way apparently. But she has been with a lovely foster mum for 2 months now....don't know how much interaction there was with kids.

By the way, thanks for the advice so far.....you guys obviously have alot more experience than I do!!

peasant

Little A wrote: »

I'd hate to give up on her but maybe it would be the best thing for her to be in a more controlled environment (it's impossible for me to be the only one to interact with her in a house with 3 kids....but they are quiet good with her). I'm trying to be the boss but have to be honest, I'm getting abit nervous as it's not nice to be snapped at!

Giving her up might be the sensible thing to do in your situation ...you don't seem to have the experience and definetly not the time needed to deal with this dog ...better safe than sorry and your kids do come first.

Little A

Oh God.....love her to bits. I do have time, but you're right that I'm not very experienced....we did have yorkies growing up but thats a long time ago. I have been reading up on training and fully intend to do all that, but as the vet said, his biggest concern is the unpredicability of when she gets aggressive....and she'll only get bigger and stonger.

Will have a big chat with the SPCA person in the morning, she may have advise or be able to put me in touch with someone who specialises in this area.

Thanks again

Vas_Guy

Update, the pup was independently assessed and was told she is nervous and has been confirmed its due to poor socialisation the next step is to work on her socialisation and build up her confidence.

BlackCat2008

I'm glad to hear the spca are willing to carry out care for the dog after they've been rehomed with out support these dogs only end up right back were they started.

The main advise I can give you is you need to make a conection with her almost like you's hold a privete joke between you's or only you two know a secert no one else does (I hope you understand what I mean).

If took me a while to stop being afraid of my dog and realise she was just scared to death, I had to find a common ground to connect with her on and food was one of them as was figuring out how intellegent she really was, I used treats to show her I was friendly and would wait till everyone left the kitchen to give it to her like we searched a secret I snook food to her while no one was looking from there on in she would wait in her bed till everyone left then sneek over to me for her treat, soon I start training her with treats with in four weeks she had the basic's down and started to learn new games like hide in seek, she only hides in her bed while I look in the presses, but the wag in her tail when I find her tells me she injoys this and she has learned more and more games and as long as that tail wags I know she's happy, but I had to learn what set her of in the first place, so I didn't put her in the postion to bit or snap, I still don't take chances 7yrs on, but so far as strict as I am when it comes to her she enjoys her life and I wouldn't change that. I am learning at the minute how to train a sniffer dog so I can train her I find with giving her something to do she doesn't want to bit or snap just have a good time. Try finding away to run of some of this nervous energy and get her brain focused on something else.

Keep us up date on how it go's I be very intrested in hearing what support the spca are giving you.

Little A

Vas Guy..........glad to hear you have an answer, hopefully some solicalisation will help sort her out.

I have had my girl interact my another dog who is great at putting her in her place & then they have a great old play togeather.

I spoke to the SPCA yesterday and they have been very helpful. Had a long discussion about what has been happening and they are going to follow up by discussions with some others in the know. She seemed happy with the way I was dealing with her (obviously they don't expect all adopters to be fully trained dog trainer, but she seemed happy with the way I was dealing with her so far).

I was told from the word go to call if there were any problems, so I definately didn't feel abandoned!...but do feel abit dissapointed in myself. They asked if I was happy to see about working through the problems or if I wanted to see about rehoming....so we're going to see how we get on over the next wee while.

She reminds me of the poem - "there was a little girl, with a little curl, right in the middle of her forehead. When she was good, she was very, very good. And when she was bad, she was awful". Just need to tap fully into the "very, very good part" !!

peasant

Little A wrote: »

...but do feel abit dissapointed in myself.

Why should you?

You seem to be doing all the right things ...and even IF you should decide that she's too much for you to handle and should give her away, you wouldn't be doing so lightly.

As you said, nobody is a perfect dog trainer and even if you were, it would take some time for you and the dog to figure each other out and come to an understanding. It's a long learning curve, for both you and the dog even in the best of circumstances.

Little A

I met a guy with a fab collie who was so well trained. He gave me some good tips.

This morning we made her work for every bit of her food. Sit, stay, come & rewarded her with some of her food (coated in cod liver oil)....she really enjoyed it. Then had the kids in different rooms calling her and getting her to sit & rewarding her with some food. Hopefully it will build their confidence with her & tearch her not to "bite the hand that feeds her!"

peasant

Little A wrote: »

This morning we made her work for every bit of her food.

That is a very good way to teach a dog who's boss by showing her who exactly is in control.

You can also extend that principle to non food related activities. When she wants out ...make her sit before you open the door. When she comes for attention, when she wants her lead put on, when she needs a door opened, etc ...make her sit (or something else that she can easily do).

As for involving the kids ..that also is a good idea. I would recommend though that the kids don't give treats by hand but rather put them on the floor for her.
Kids and dogs easily get excited and an accidental bite (out of sheer excitment and misunderstanding) could be the result and that would be counter-productive.

Edit:

Also make sure that you and your kids only ever give a treat / perform the desired action once the "sit" or whatever has been performed flawlessly and some time has elapsed. Don't say "sit" and at the same time give the treat/open the dooor while her behind is still on the way down

A clever dog will otherwise turn that game around and start treating you as a treat dispenser and perform all sorts of tricks unrequested to get a treat our of you and not give two hoots about your instructions.

Little A

Also make sure that you and your kids only ever give a treat / perform the desired action once the "sit" or whatever has been performed flawlessly and some time has elapsed. Don't say "sit" and at the same time give the treat/open the dooor while her behind is still on the way down

I agree...they need some training too !!! Buy I kept it to about 20 mins with the kids involved and clearly laid down guide lines....they only had the treats during the traing time, need to stop them afterwards getting her to sit, paw,etc without getting a treat from them or she may resent them.
I was amazed how she came on today (NOT saying problems sorted but I think I have a better understanding of how she thinks....I guess I've had a "Pavlov" moment!). Really realized WE both have so much to learn and she has alot to get over.

She came on so fast it was amazing....20 mins this afternoon playng hide and seek around the house and garden between 4 of us...getting her to come, sit, stay, paw & even managed to teach her lie in the middle of it!!! All just with her regular food. Kids in school next week so will be able to focus her more. Any ideas on how long I should continue this for & best things to move on to ?

Napping is a time she tends to growl if the kids approach....so I went over about ever 15mins with abit of food and she was quite happy to have me there. Will keep working on this.

I'm feeling so much happier now...only one little bit of a growl as I took her away from digging a Grand Canon in the back garden & really, it's not big enough:D.
Placed abit of her poo in the holes & filled them in....anyone any success with this method??

Will keep you posted!

Peasant & Blackcat- a big thanks for your support & advice....I really hope I can sort this....realise I've had her for such a short time & we have a long way to go.....hopefully we'll go all the way

peasant

A dog is never too old or to "good" for a few training lessons ...even if they are just play. As long as you have the co-operation of the dog, it's fine to continue ...just don't force this down her throat.

Over a while, you will learn what her favourite game is ...fetching, chasing ...this can then become her "super treat". Also, when she's having fun, she will show some natural behaviour which you can then expand into a "trick" or something useful ...like you did with the lie down yesterday.

If she growls while shes napping, then I would strongly recommend to simply leave her be. A dog needs a break too every now and then ...especially with three kids around it can all get a bit much. Come to an understanding with the kids and the dog that she has a "safe zone". If she retreats to her bed (or any other favourite spot) to have a nap and be left alone ...well then she has to be left alone

Vas_Guy

now its 1 year on and there seems to be no improvement in the dog, the breeder contacted all the owners of the pups and they are all fine, there was a few problems with the dogs previous owners as they defamed my friend in writing saying all sorts.

I had the dog and she is very fearful i brought her to kennels on saturday for assesement and she was acting very agressive pullling at the lead, i had her in town and he barked at someon who i was passing by in the park.

in my opinion the dog needs professional help, socialisation does not seem to work, perhaps its something genetic.

if the dog has to be put to sleep it would kill the breeders, he wants to try all options, but at the moment its not looking good, i'm picking the dog up today and see hoe she got on at the assessment

cloudy day

peasant wrote: »

Dog behaviourist is talking out of his/her behind. This dog is four months old and doesn't know what fear-agression is.

Proper socialisation of the dog and training of the owners is the issue

Agree totally.

Sounds like they haven't a clue with dogs, spoilt the pup and decided easiest thing was to get rid of. thankfully for the pup I have to say. can you imagine it's future if you'd not took it back. It would probably of grown into an nutter and all the family's fault.

I''ve had 4 mth old pups bark at strangers, gaurding is natural to some dogs. But the pups never showed any aggression.

Vas_Guy

Just got feedback from the kennels, the advice was to add verliam to the dogs food to help her relax and to encourage people to me calm around her as she is very nervous.