Creatine and cycling? - surely not

jomag45

I know someone who has been using creatine and racing on the bike. He hasn't had any major results to speak of, but neither has he been blown out the back in major races. From what I've read on the subject, creatine has one major drawback, the weight gain associated with water retention (well, that's according to some of the research anyway). I was wondering if anyone else has heard of their clubmates using this supplement, which afterall is totally legal, but the downsides seem to me to out-weigh any potential benefits. I can understand why for example rugby players would supplement with this, as bulk is good, when combined with the short bursts of explosive power that creatine is supposed to give, but for cycling? I wouldn't have thought so. Although, maybe I'm completely out of touch with the scene here???

brianthebard

What negatives are you talking about?Afaik creatine is supposed to help you train or perform longer.Would the extra water in the muscles not be of benefit?

jomag45

I'm talking about the additional weight you'd have to drag around.

brianthebard

How much weight do you think you would gain? A stone? Two? Or perhaps closer to a couple of kilos. Also, don't you think having extra water in your body is a plus, since it would make it less easy for a cyclist to dehydrate?

uberwolf

To answer the OP, yes I have heard of plenty who use it.

Is it any good? Supposed to aid muscle recovery from sharp bursts of use - so weights and interval training would be made easier

ilovelamp2000

You have to take creatine in cycles otherwise its effectiveness is compromised fairly quickly. The trouble is when you don't take it you completely lose the benefits of it, it has no residual gains so in a sense it's a bit false. It'll give you a boost when you take it but it doesn't do much for promoting lean muscle gain. Some people have issues with cramps when they take it too.

And there haven't been any serious studies of the long term effects of taking creatine.

For those reasons I haven't taken it and wouldn't bother taking it, and I say that as someone who has played rugby for years.

rob1891

brianthebard wrote: »

How much weight do you think you would gain? A stone? Two? Or perhaps closer to a couple of kilos. Also, don't you think having extra water in your body is a plus, since it would make it less easy for a cyclist to dehydrate?

It's actually quite counter-intuitive, but I've read that the main issue with Creatine for cycling is hydration. I guess all that water sloshing around in your muscles isn't actually where it needs to be. So, there are big problems with keeping hydrated and staving off cramps on long rides.

Glutamine and Ribose are where it is at apparently, but I'm coming off the protein shakes and onto the latest and greatest: Chocolate Milk! :-)

brianthebard

Theres always water in your muscles,and i doubt its sloshing about.The level of non knowledge about creatine is staggering tbh.

rob1891

brianthebard wrote: »

Theres always water in your muscles,and i doubt its sloshing about.The level of non knowledge about creatine is staggering tbh.

Where abouts is your level of knowledge regarding creatine and its benefit to TT, 1 day and stage bicycle racing? Do you care to share it or are you just here for a day trip?

OP: Head to some of the larger cycling forums and search for topics about this. You usually have to sign up to search though. There are loads of threads. My summary of the ones I have read is: It is of minimal/no benefit to an aerobic sport like road cycling. Anecdotally, it causes dehydration and/or cramping, which maybe fine during out of season preparations, but will destroy you in race season. Most people with experience of it, took it for sprinting (as in running) or other sports and stoppped when they started cycling. Disciplines it may benefit could include some track cycling, downhill, bmx. There are lots of better suppliments for cycling.

Feel free to go out and read, and draw your own conclusions or just tell your mate that some randomer on the internet says he's wasting his money. I'm sticking to the chocolate milk until I have some performance to enhance :-P

bwardrop

brianthebard wrote: »

The level of non knowledge about creatine is staggering tbh.

+1 There is a lot of nonsense in this thread.

OP - the amount of weight you may gain from taking creatine would have a negligible impact on performance in a moderately trained individual.

This would be countered balanced out by the potential benefits creatine offers in terms of energy production, most notably in sprint events.

There is no real definitive answer to your question - it would all depend on the way the guy is taking creatine, his current physical conditioning and most importantly, his training history. There is no magic supplement that is going to improve performance without concomitant hard training.

PeadarofAodh

Creatine use for cycling would be absolutely useless. I've read extensively on the supplement and yes, it has its benefits for sports that require bursts of energy such as rugby, however this is useless for cycling. Cycling is an endurance sport.

I would argue against the point made that weight gained from creatine would have a negligible impact. Creatine simply will not help when it comes to endurance sports, so all that you'll end up doing is having to lug a few extra kilos up those hills.

I couldn't really be bothered entering into one of those never-ending debates but I've read extensively about creatine and its uses (coming from a rowing background, the above applies here as well) and would seriously advise against wasting your money.

TinyExplosions

bwardrop wrote: »

There is no magic supplement that is going to improve performance without concomitant hard training.

EPO or Amphetemines could

bwardrop

PeadarofAodh wrote: »

Creatine use for cycling would be absolutely useless. I've read extensively on the supplement and yes, it has its benefits for sports that require bursts of energy such as rugby, however this is useless for cycling. Cycling is an endurance sport.

I agree with you - for endurance exercise there is little evidence demonstrating performance improvements from creatine supplementation. Not all cycling is endurance performance - in track cycling or shorter time trials there may be some benefit. The OP was referring to endurance performance - what I tried to say in my previous reply is that there will be negligible negative effects accompanied by negligible positive effects, which will results in little difference in performance. Reading back, I didn't make that too clear.

PeadarofAodh wrote: »

I would argue against the point made that weight gained from creatine would have a negligible impact. Creatine simply will not help when it comes to endurance sports, so all that you'll end up doing is having to lug a few extra kilos up those hills.

In much of the research on creatine and performance, the weight gain associated with creatine supplementation is usually less than 1kg - typically in the region of 500 - 700g (about a 1% increase for an average 70kg man). You will not put on a couple of kilos due to creatine supplementation.

I'm not going to delve into a load of calculations, but trust me - for an average person, a 1% increase in mass in not going to have much of an effect on performance in an endurance event.

If you didn't go to the loo before your event you could be holding close to this much weight in your bladder / bowels... Or if you knocked back a 500ml bottle of water you would be adding this much weight. It is insignificant in the grand scheme of things.

Diarmuid

PeadarofAodh wrote: »

Creatine use for cycling would be absolutely useless.

Surely for track sprinters it would be helpful? Those guys do a lot of heavy squatting and cleans in their weight training.

rubadub

bwardrop wrote: »

the weight gain associated with creatine supplementation is usually less than 1kg - typically in the region of 500 - 700g (about a 1% increase for an average 70kg man). You will not put on a couple of kilos due to creatine supplementation.

There are LOTS of threads on creatine in the fitness forum, there is no weight/powerlifting forum so many discuss it there. I had heard up to 6-7lb gain was normal, but these guys might be 5 stone more than the average cyclist anyway.

I had often read it is only for short power, e.g. sprints, lifting etc, when your glycogen is gone I think it boosts your ATP so you can get a few more reps in. But it was commonly posted to be pretty useless for endurance atheletes like marathon runners, and most cyclists are endurance competitors.

I took if for lifting and I cycle to work and did find I was able to take off quicker at lights, but that could be placebo.

Even if it was only 500g gain, you will hear of lads paying big bucks to shave 500g off components. It could be balanced out in sprints as mentioned, but just from what I read in the fitness forum most do not recommend it for runners anyway.

This thread might benefit from being put in the fitness forum, or a link if possible. Lots of knowledgeable folk in there.

bwardrop

First of all, let me clarify - I do not think creatine supplementation will offer any significant ergogenic advantage to the vast majority of road cyclists.

rubadub wrote: »

There are LOTS of threads on creatine in the fitness forum, there is no weight/powerlifting forum so many discuss it there. I had heard up to 6-7lb gain was normal, but these guys might be 5 stone more than the average cyclist anyway.

I knew I should have addressed this in my previous post. For someone who is training specifically for power / hypertrophy and weighs 100kgs +, then sure, there is potential to gain 6-7lbs. They would generally be taking a higher dose of creatine, particularly during the loading phase, due to their increased mass. Their increased mass should also be lean (i.e. more muscle) - so there is potential for greater water retention in said muscle. Still, a 6-7lb gain in a 100kg lifter is only about a 3% gain - and this would be at the higher end of the spectrum. Typical (outside of power / bodybuilders) gains are usually less than this.

rubadub wrote: »

I had often read it is only for short power, e.g. sprints, lifting etc, when your glycogen is gone I think it boosts your ATP so you can get a few more reps in. But it was commonly posted to be pretty useless for endurance atheletes like marathon runners, and most cyclists are endurance competitors.

The evidence suggests that the most benefit will be in the types of activities you mention. Creatine helps to re-generate ATP from ADP. It will be at work long before you are glycogen depleted.

rubadub wrote: »

Even if it was only 500g gain, you will hear of lads paying big bucks to shave 500g off components. It could be balanced out in sprints as mentioned, but just from what I read in the fitness forum most do not recommend it for runners anyway.

Yes - people pay silly money to save weight on their bike. But does it improve their performance? At the top end of cycling, yes. For the average Joe? Probably a bit, but nothing significant. For the majority of the people, performance will be limited by their physical capacity, not 500g here or there on the bike. In the average cyclist, a 1% gain in weight due to water retention will not really disrupt their performance that much.

Do not mistake this with a 1% gain in muscle mass - increasing your lean mass while dropping fat is probably the single most effective thing the average person can do to improve their performance. I know if it came down to it, I would rather gain 500g of muscle & loose a kg of fat (net loss 500g) instead of loosing 500g of the bike!!

quietobserver

brianthebard wrote: »

Theres always water in your muscles,and i doubt its sloshing about.The level of non knowledge about creatine is staggering tbh.

enlighten us???