Motive for banning

Frank the Manc

Today i was given 7 day ban from Airsoft adverts for alledged back seat modding, here is the thread in question:

http://boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055358256

now i could care less about the ban as its by far from the end of my world, but i do have to question the true reason behind the ban.

It seams that the mod, Lemming has a problem with me, the only reason that i can see why is because i questioned his actions before and also took offence with the foul mouthed manner in which it was conveyed, several F**ks and a reference to retards.


I was warned by a mod before for swearing as it was a open forum and there could be children reading, which i have absolutely no problem with.
i informed him that i had though that it was accepted as i had seen mods use the same language, he said report it the next time i see it.



Here is that thread:


[FONT=&quot]http://boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055346501&page=5

I have advised Lemming that i was starting a thread here in accordance with the rules, i wouldnt have bothered starting this thread if it wasnt for the comment, in brackets at the end of the first thread quoted.
that is what led me to believe that he had an ulteriour motive.

i can put up the PMs that were sent between us regarding the ban from the first thread but i dont know if that is allowed without his permission, but i have no problems with them being looked at to evidence that i was not engaged in trolling or any such behaviour.

Thank you for you time.
[/FONT]

Gordon

In that thread you were referring to "a certain mod" as having an overwhelming display of ignorance for carrying out mod actions. That's enough to piss off the mod in question, it's a bit like insulting the doorman at a club and expecting to be let in imo!

Frank the Manc

Gordon wrote: »

In that thread you were referring to "a certain mod" as having an overwhelming display of ignorance for carrying out mod actions. That's enough to piss off the mod in question, it's a bit like insulting the doorman at a club and expecting to be let in imo!

i appreciate the feed back but there are 5 if not 6 mods in the airsoft forum, and i didnt name anyone out in particular.

regardless that point is moot as i was not banned for personal abuse, i was banned for back seat modding with a reference to a previous interaction where i dared question the appropriatness of swearing and making reference to the handicapped in a distasteful manner.

so you would agree that i was banned as i pissed off the mod and not actually back seat modding, or would you classify my advice to the OP, in which i stated that he may or may not like to set a guide price.
to me a mod tells you what you cant do i.e. if you break the rules.

Gordon

Frank the Manc wrote: »

i appreciate the feed back but there are 5 if not 6 mods in the airsoft forum, and i didnt name anyone out in particular.

Who exactly did you mean?

regardless that point is moot

Not in my opinion. This adds to your online character. If you have been banned for foul mouthery in the past and then make a sly dig at a mod for claiming that he's being overwhelmingly ignorant then it puts you in bad standing wrt your online character.

as i was not banned for personal abuse, i was banned for back seat modding with a reference to a previous interaction where i dared question the appropriatness of swearing and making reference to the handicapped in a distasteful manner.

After a previous interaction it's usual etiquette to make sure there won't be another interaction and take steps to make sure that happens, doesn't look like you did.

so you would agree that i was banned as i pissed off the mod and not actually back seat modding,

It looks to me like you did two things - back seat mod and piss off the mod.

or would you classify my advice to the OP, in which i stated that he may or may not like to set a guide price.

Sorry, I don't understand that sentence.

to me a mod tells you what you cant do i.e. if you break the rules.

That's one of the roles, yes.

I have given Lemming a right to reply if he wishes.

Lemming

Gordon wrote: »

It looks to me like you did two things - back seat mod and piss off the mod.

I wouldn't say he pissed me off. But pissing him off on top of a backseat modding ban made me smile given his prior history.

That's one of the roles, yes.

Glib flippant remarks aside and being serious now, Frank has NO excuse for ignorance of the rules because he has been on the receiving end of them before. He clearly knew what he was posting and that the thread would be noticed. Had he left it alone, the price issue would have been dealt with. But no, he chose to indulge in backseat moderation. That he incorrectly tried to fling sly (or what he thought sly) insults about is irrelevant to the ban and not the reason for the ban. Amusing afterthought? Oh completely. But reason for? No.

Frank the Manc

Gordon wrote: »

Who exactly did you mean?

Not in my opinion. This adds to your online character. If you have been banned for foul mouthery in the past and then make a sly dig at a mod for claiming that he's being overwhelmingly ignorant then it puts you in bad standing wrt your online character.

After a previous interaction it's usual etiquette to make sure there won't be another interaction and take steps to make sure that happens, doesn't look like you did.

It looks to me like you did two things - back seat mod and piss off the mod.


Sorry, I don't understand that sentence.

That's one of the roles, yes.

I have given Lemming a right to reply if he wishes.

i advised the chap that he may or may not want to include a guide price, i did not tell him to do aything, i advised him of his options, not what youd exactly call moderation is it?

by the way i wasnt banned for bad language before, i was told by a mod, on thread taht it was frowned upon.

an im sure if you look at this lemming lads use of unnecessary bad language in his posts that youll get a good reflection of his online charecter.

Lemming wrote: »

I wouldn't say he pissed me off. But pissing him off on top of a backseat modding ban made me smile given his prior history.



Glib flippant remarks aside and being serious now, Frank has NO excuse for ignorance of the rules because he has been on the receiving end of them before. He clearly knew what he was posting and that the thread would be noticed. Had he left it alone, the price issue would have been dealt with. But no, he chose to indulge in backseat moderation. That he incorrectly tried to fling sly (or what he thought sly) insults about is irrelevant to the ban and not the reason for the ban. Amusing afterthought? Oh completely. But reason for? No.

so basically what youre saying is that you had/have it in for me and this was your chance.

really how would you have dealth with the issue, locked the thread, banned/ infracted every poster and banned the op, for his ignorance of the rules?
exactly like you did countless times before.
why dont Kdouglas, oisin or the other mods see the need to go around locking theads and banning folks when a simple warning or even infraction would suffice?
your brash and quite frankly ignorant style of moderating does nothing for either our sport as a whole or boards.ie.
you dont listen and bull ahead with your own opinion, even when it flys in the face of reason.
quite evident from your frequent "fight da powa" remarks to anyone who questions your decision.

i have no problems with you personally what so ever but your style of moderating has put people off going to HRTA and other skirmish sites and i know that to be a fact in at least 3 peoples cases.

prior history? you mean when i took offence to the language you used in a thread, especially the reference to the handicapped and told you so in PM.
i would have reported the post but unfortunately i was banned from the section it was in.
you can put those pms up here if you like lad iv no problem with that

now you can either take what i have said on board or just ignore it and come back with some sort of "witty" retort but the fact remains that there is no need for the approach you take in 80% of the cases.

like i said i couldn care less about this ban, it means absolutely nothing to me but when i think that it has been due to the vendictive nature of a mod, thats when it bothers me.

Lemming

Frank the Manc wrote: »

i advised the chap that he may or may not want to include a guide price, i did not tell him to do aything, i advised him of his options, not what youd exactly call moderation is it?

The operative word there is "advised". I then advised that I wanted to see guide prices before offers were made. You engaged in backseat moderation. End therein.

by the way i wasnt banned for bad language before, i was told by a mod, on thread taht it was frowned upon.

an im sure if you look at this lemming lads use of unnecessary bad language in his posts that youll get a good reflection of his online charecter.

Ah yes, your personal preference for choice of language means that you are automatically right in being indignant at all times? Is that it? You're right and to hell with anyone else? Language is language. It's neither good nor bad but appropriate or inappropriate. There are times when I have to go in and ruthelessly moderate and when that happens I'm usually sick to the back teeth of dealing with idiots. Absolute f*cking (to prove a point) idiots. And when that happens, I don't care what language you think I should be using. You are not going to get tea and sympathy from me, only my annoyance at having to hand out a ban.

so basically what youre saying is that you had/have it in for me and this was your chance.

Would you kindly point exactly where I said I had or have it in for you. Dear god you have a serious persecution complex added to an unhealthy dose of paranoia.

really how would you have dealth with the issue, locked the thread, banned/ infracted every poster and banned the op, for his ignorance of the rules?
exactly like you did countless times before.

I got to the thread before the situation came to that and an "advisory" was all that was needed. No offers had been made and no bans were needed. The OP is not a name I have encountered much (indeed if at all) on the adverts forum hence I gave the benefit of the doubt.

As for the countless times before, usually the thread either warrants it on account of being an absolute shambles of a mess or the posters are well aware of the rules and despite it all behave as they do anyway.

why dont Kdouglas, oisin or the other mods see the need to go around locking theads and banning folks when a simple warning or even infraction would suffice?

Waaaah, wahhhhh , wahhhhh.

Airsoft adverts is not subject to your average boards.ie forum moderation. It is a subset of adverts.ie attached to the respective boards.ie subforum on account of the nature of what is traded in it and is felt that the community will be best suited to keep an eye on it. Adverts.ie is, as a rule, moderated fairly ruthlessly and with zero tolerance or humour since people stand to loose money (or items of monetary value) due to others dicking around. You either obey the rules, or you don't bother posting. If you are incapable of following the rules you are. Not. Welcome.

Further, the other moderators in question have very little adverts moderation experience, hence one of the agreements of the airsoft adverts forum being created was that an experienced adverts moderator (myself since I requested the forum in the first place) provided oversight.

your brash and quite frankly ignorant style of moderating does nothing for either our sport as a whole or boards.ie.
you dont listen and bull ahead with your own opinion, even when it flys in the face of reason.
quite evident from your frequent "fight da powa" remarks to anyone who questions your decision.

All in your opinion and highly subjective. I should again point out the whole adverts rules thing to you. If you do not believe that I ever listen, I suggest you go and have a word with the other adverts.ie moderators on some of the more ... lengthy disputes that I have been involved in resolving. That most of the airsoft adverts actions i have carried out have been pretty much "open and shut" seems to have escaped your rather dented nose after your last ban.

My "fight da powa" remark was based on your tiringly repetitive "set-my-people-free-and-stop-oppressing-me" syndrome that you have displayed both publically and privately on more than one occasion.

i have no problems with you personally what so ever but your style of moderating has put people off going to HRTA and other skirmish sites and i know that to be a fact in at least 3 peoples cases.

Anecdotal hearsay is being bandied about as some sort of fact now? Nice.

prior history? you mean when i took offence to the language you used in a thread, especially the reference to the handicapped and told you so in PM.
i would have reported the post but unfortunately i was banned from the section it was in.

When you consider that I spent over three hours in pm to just about every other person in question (5 out of 7 if I recall), and taking the time to explain everything to them and answer their questions; you may want to consider just WHY I didn't do the same for you. Perhaps taking a long hard look at your own attitude might be a fan-f*cking-tastically good place to start.

now you can either take what i have said on board or just ignore it and come back with some sort of "witty" retort but the fact remains that there is no need for the approach you take in 80% of the cases.

In your opinion. And quite frankly your opinion equates to precisely squat since you have absolutely not the first clue about moderation in general, nor the legal minefield that adverts moderation can become, nor just how much of an effort the airsoft adverts forum is to moderate. In fact most other moderators (including adverts mods) who have ever commented on it have said they wouldn't touch it with a barge-pole.

like i said i couldn care less about this ban, it means absolutely nothing to me but when i think that it has been due to the vendictive nature of a mod, thats when it bothers me.

Your massive posts would seem to suggest otherwise about your lack of caring.

Incidentally .... moderators, admins .... do we seriously have to take anythign more Frank says seriously after that vindictive comment? Coming from a poster who makes vindicitive, snide remarks about a previous ban?

Frank the Manc

Lemming wrote: »

The operative word there is "advised". I then advised that I wanted to see guide prices before offers were made. You engaged in backseat moderation. End therein.



Ah yes, your personal preference for choice of language means that you are automatically right in being indignant at all times? Is that it? You're right and to hell with anyone else? Language is language. It's neither good nor bad but appropriate or inappropriate. There are times when I have to go in and ruthelessly moderate and when that happens I'm usually sick to the back teeth of dealing with idiots. Absolute f*cking (to prove a point) idiots. And when that happens, I don't care what language you think I should be using. You are not going to get tea and sympathy from me, only my annoyance at having to hand out a ban.

oh wow you really impress me with you "bad" attitute, well done BA, here now drink this milk while me and Hannibal get you on the plane.

Lemming wrote: »

Would you kindly point exactly where I said I had or have it in for you. Dear god you have a serious persecution complex added to an unhealthy dose of paranoia.

read your first post.

Lemming wrote: »

I got to the thread before the situation came to that and an "advisory" was all that was needed. No offers had been made and no bans were needed. The OP is not a name I have encountered much (indeed if at all) on the adverts forum hence I gave the benefit of the doubt.

really? waht about the OP in my first link, he got banned for a month, and he was new here also.
benefit of the doubt yeah?

Lemming wrote: »

As for the countless times before, usually the thread either warrants it on account of being an absolute shambles of a mess or the posters are well aware of the rules and despite it all behave as they do anyway.



Waaaah, wahhhhh , wahhhhh.

Airsoft adverts is not subject to your average boards.ie forum moderation. It is a subset of adverts.ie attached to the respective boards.ie subforum on account of the nature of what is traded in it and is felt that the community will be best suited to keep an eye on it. Adverts.ie is, as a rule, moderated fairly ruthlessly and with zero tolerance or humour since people stand to loose money (or items of monetary value) due to others dicking around. You either obey the rules, or you don't bother posting. If you are incapable of following the rules you are. Not. Welcome.

Further, the other moderators in question have very little adverts moderation experience, hence one of the agreements of the airsoft adverts forum being created was that an experienced adverts moderator (myself since I requested the forum in the first place) provided oversight.

yet they seem to manage just fine dont they?
and they dont have to resort to treating people like they are second class citizens.

Lemming wrote: »

All in your opinion and highly subjective. I should again point out the whole adverts rules thing to you. If you do not believe that I ever listen, I suggest you go and have a word with the other adverts.ie moderators on some of the more ... lengthy disputes that I have been involved in resolving. That most of the airsoft adverts actions i have carried out have been pretty much "open and shut" seems to have escaped your rather dented nose after your last ban.

My "fight da powa" remark was based on your tiringly repetitive "set-my-people-free-and-stop-oppressing-me" syndrome that you have displayed both publically and privately on more than one occasion.

what does be goin on in you head chap?

Lemming wrote: »

Anecdotal hearsay is being bandied about as some sort of fact now? Nice.

i know what i know, but you can just pig-ignorantly bull your way through that and dismiss them as hearsay.
your ears must get sick of your hands trying to smother them all the time id say.
if other posters were allowed pots here i know at least 3 people that would confirm what i say.
i guess its a small pice to pay to leave the idiots and their lol cats and treckie pictures out of the equation.

Lemming wrote: »

When you consider that I spent over three hours in pm to just about every other person in question (5 out of 7 if I recall), and taking the time to explain everything to them and answer their questions; you may want to consider just WHY I didn't do the same for you. Perhaps taking a long hard look at your own attitude might be a fan-f*cking-tastically good place to start.

yeah that reminsds me wasnt one member unbanned before the 3 days were up and allowed to purchase what he wanted from the OP?
is that the way adverts.ie works is it?
i was under the impression that all deals were to be made on thread
surely this alledged 3 hours copuld have been better spent simply tidying up the thread and allowing the sale to go on no?

Lemming wrote: »

In your opinion. And quite frankly your opinion equates to precisely squat since you have absolutely not the first clue about moderation in general, nor the legal minefield that adverts moderation can become, nor just how much of an effort the airsoft adverts forum is to moderate. In fact most other moderators (including adverts mods) who have ever commented on it have said they wouldn't touch it with a barge-pole.

Boo Hoo Hoo.... do you want the baba?
you impress me wit your "uber leet moderation powers", youre goin places with those.

Lemming wrote: »

Your massive posts would seem to suggest otherwise about your lack of caring.

Incidentally .... moderators, admins .... do we seriously have to take anythign more Frank says seriously after that vindictive comment? Coming from a poster who makes vindicitive, snide remarks about a previous ban?

lad your definition of massive and mine seem to be on completely different scales.
yeah i made a remark and i stand by it, it is obviously true as it seems to have got you so worked up.
and it wasnt to do with my ban, it was the attitude expressed and actions taken.

i noticed you still havent put up the PMs that were exchange originally, i wonder why that is?

Lemming

Frank the manc wrote: »

read your first post.

And again I'm going to ask you to point out exactly where it was said or implied that i had it in for you. I suggest that you read your own tripe before telling me to go re-read what I post.

Frank the Manc wrote: »

i noticed you still havent put up the PMs that were exchange originally, i wonder why that is?

What? These ones that I had go looking for? I'm in work ... writing that original post took a while as it stands. You aren't paying for my time so you can wait until hell freezes over for all I care.

Frank the Manc wrote:

Lemming wrote:

Frank the Manc wrote:

Lemming wrote:

Frank the Manc wrote:

Lemming wrote:

Hi Frank the Manc,

You have been banned from Airsoft Adverts for the following duration:

3 Day(s)

for the following reason:

Engaging in auctioneering.

Providing your ban is not permanent, it will be lifted automatically after 3 Day(s). You will get an automatic message informing you that the ban is lifted. If you do not receive this message after the alloted time, please PM a moderator to clarify.
Also, please be aware that an abusive response to this automated message may result in an extension of your ban, or in extreme cases, being banned from the entire site.

Thanks,

Forum Moderator.

what exactly is the problem here?
the OP offered goods for sale, at a defined and tangible price, for the lot, then acceped offers on the individual guns themselves as has happened countless times in adverts before.

that thread went to 6 pages before you decided to step in and lock the thread in the most unnecessarly ignorant fashion i have ever witnessed on a public message board.

do you not think for a minute that, others, especially the press may be indeed reading the tripe that you posted?
do you consider that a good representation of our sport?

i take strong exception to your most foul language, especially the term "****tarded".
what sort of ignorant, obtuse scumbag are you?
are you of the opinion that you are some sort of supreme being, exempt for all form of manner and decency?

i shall be reporting this post as soon as my ban is lifted and am contemplating taking it further.

you could do well to mind your manners, other moderators can do their job efficiently without resorting to such low and quite frankly obnoxious language.

Regards,


Frank.

I've taken the time to explain to others why the decision to ban was made. But given the above tripe I'm not going to bother in your case.

excuse me now but what have i said in the above "tripe" that isnt worthy of your great explanaiton, oh almighty one.

you are pure ignorance personified.

You, who made grand assumptions and accusations that I let the thread get to 6 pages before doing anything, accuse me of ignorance?

How about being eyeball deep in work?
How about juggling work and looking fro a new job?
How about being so tired after all the above that the last thing you want to deal with is a god-awful mess of an adverts thread (that you haven't noticed because of the above) on what has been universally recognised by most other moderators as an absolute hell-hole of a forum to moderate?

So you will perhaps appreciate that I have things on my mind of a somewhat FAR higher priority than what goes on in adverts at the moment. I noticed that thread because it was reported by another user.

No. Your above accusations were pure ignorance personified.

Go fight da powa

youre not the only moderator here, surely someone else could have done it, iv seen KDouglas, oisin and gandalf all mod that forum before.

the language you used in that thread was uncalled for and i stand by that, especially the term ****tarded, i was goin to open up a thread in feedbac, but to be honest youre not worth the effort.

what exactly was inherintly wrong with the thread, he offer goods at a price and then decided to split the sale, i have seen this done countless times before without remark, what exactly was wrong with the thread?

Frank the Manc

Lemming wrote: »

And again I'm going to ask you to point out exactly where it was said or implied that i had it in for you. I suggest that you read your own tripe before telling me to go re-read what I post.

it was implied where you said it put a smile on your face banning me

Lemming wrote: »

What? These ones that I had go looking for? I'm in work ... writing that original post took a while as it stands. You aren't paying for my time so you can wait until hell freezes over for all I care.

good reply there, if your in work youre gettin paid anyways, look just go off and have a game of WOW or something, im done with you now,
youre never goin to take heed to anyones advice but your own, so im done wasting my time on you.
iv learnt my lesson, i wont slip up again, in adverts at least.
im just goin to go around being as ignorant and as aggressive as you are to people and when the ask ill say lemming said it was ok to be like this.

see ya later oinky.

Lemming

Frank the Manc wrote: »

it was implied where you said it put a smile on your face banning me

It put a smile on my face because you tried to make a snide remark and thought you were being clever. Your remark was not the reason for your being banned. As has been said and repeated already. And I've just repeated it again.

im just goin to go around being as ignorant and as aggressive as you are to people and when the ask ill say lemming said it was ok to be like this.

Your words. Not mine. And I'll point that out to everyone you ever say that too.

see ya later oinky.

And thank you for "slipping up". Reported.

Frank the Manc

I wouldn't say he pissed me off. But pissing him off on top of a backseat modding ban made me smile given his prior history.

are you totaly f*ckin dense or has all the masturbation over picture of james t kirk made you blind?

are you goin to respond to any of my other points or just ignore them like you do everything else?

yeah rat all you like, i dont give a f*ck.
it must be nice to be able to ban people from the very threads that they wish to report.

just how many people did report this thread, i wonder,

http://boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055346501&page=

and what actions were taken exactly,
care to answer that?
probably not id imagine for that might be too close to admiting that you might have been wrong.

bye bye now,

see you soon

mwah x

Beruthiel

Frank the Manc wrote: »

it if your in work youre gettin paid anyways, look just go off and have a game of WOW or something, im done with you now,
youre never goin to take heed to anyones advice but your own, so im done wasting my time on you.
iv learnt my lesson, i wont slip up again, in adverts at least.
im just goin to go around being as ignorant and as aggressive as you are to people and when the ask ill say lemming said it was ok to be like this.

If that is the case, I will have to recommend to lemming that your ban is perm.

are you totaly f*ckin dense or has all the masturbation over picture of james t kirk made you blind?

I see no reason why any Mod should have to put up with this kind of behaviour.

Frank the Manc

Beruthiel wrote: »

If that is the case, I will have to recommend to lemming that your ban is perm.



I see no reason why any Mod should have to put up with this kind of behaviour.

well when youre faced with someone who will not admit anywrong doing what so ever and continues to bait and shout you down then maybe you might understand where im comming from.

what exactly is so wrong with the first comment that would warrent a permanent ban?
ill admit the second was made in the heat of the moment and was unnecessary but i was angry with the complete lack of reasoning here.

i noticed that you made no remark about any of his comments, is he totaly in the right here?