CA drop outs.

gamblitis

Did anyone else see in the Independent today about the drop in graduate numbers from Computer Applications from 2005 to this year! Its down 154! Is the course getting harder or people just not able for it?

Opinions please.

giveliberty

I would imagine that if the CAO points have been dropping over the years it will that people are simply not able for it. Maths can be a difficult part of a course like that for some people, and couple that with exam pressures and other influences people break under the pressure and drop out.

We seriously need to look at how maths (like languages) is thought in this country.

robby^5

It doesnt help that the CA maths lecturer for the last few years is crap, Clancy teaches us theory for an entire year, most of the time going into huge detail about stuff that never comes up on the exam! Actually going to his lectures is a waste of time, and his notes barely cover half the exam so basically the only resource you have is the Maths Learning Centre

But really I think the maths requirment should be higher for the course, I got a C1 Ordinary level maths myself (I think the minimum is C3?) but i really think you should need a high ordinary level score to do the course, I wouldnt have done it had I known the maths would be basically higher level material.

gamblitis

Yeah the maths isn't the nicest. And if you think first year is bad! Try second year probability! Its actually twice as bad! The maths requirement should be at least a B in ordinary level. People who achieved less sometimes tend to struggle with the maths which is a shame as they would probably like some of the other modules but fail on maths alone.

Will

People go into the course thinking it will be something different than it is, and the low points gives the idea (well it did to me) that it would be a handy course to do. Boy was I wrong.

Been in CA myself 4 years, hopefully going into 4th year this coming term. It is a tough course but like anything if you put enough effort in you will do well. something ive yet to grasp

Septico

Will wrote: »

People go into the course thinking it will be something different than it is, and the low points gives the idea (well it did to me) that it would be a handy course to do. Boy was I wrong.

Been in CA myself 4 years, hopefully going into 4th year this coming term. It is a tough course but like anything if you put enough effort in you will do well. something ive yet to grasp

Just got out of CASE this year. A yes its tough. I thought it would be a lot easier and i struggled in first and second year.

Get the head down.. do the labs . and make sure you make use of the resources available. Strolled into a job with an honours qualification from this course so it makes the hard work worth while

H2G2

gamblitis wrote: »

Did anyone else see in the Independent today about the drop in graduate numbers from Computer Applications from 2005 to this year! Its down 154! Is the course getting harder or people just not able for it?

I think there is a serious and fundamental misunderstanding here.

The newspaper article was about the drop in applicants, i.e. number of people applying to to CA via the CAO system. It is NOT about the amount of people who “drop out” i.e. leave /fail the course after starting.

As for the reasons behind the drop in numbers… the negative publicity the IT market got after the dotcom bust is a major factor. But there are many others.

IMHO the CA degree is actually getting much easier not harder.

cognos

The article as a whole may have been focusing a drop in applicants but gamblitis is correct in saying the figures about CA refer to a drop in graduates, which would be influenced by drop-outs. There is no mention however that numbers dropping out is changing or if the entire decrease in graduates is from lower admissions. This would be interesting to examine though, I wouldn't be surprised if the percentage of people dropping out is increasing as well as the numbers of admissions decreasing.

I think the single biggest reason why people drop out is because people pick the course without having any interest or knowledge in the subject and for many its a last resort "well at least even if I only get 300 points I can still have a DCU degree". I don't buy the hard maths argument or the criticism of Clancy. I got a HC3 in maths and have never been good at it really but havn't had any problems with any maths content on the course and have never needed any help beyond lectures.

Interesting that first round offers have EC at 310, anyone have any admissions figures for that?

markpb

H2G2 wrote: »

IMHO the CA degree is actually getting much easier not harder.

I think you're right but the others have a point - the way the maths modules are taught leaves a lot to be desired. I managed to get a degree and a masters from CA and not only do I not know what they tried to teach me, I've never needed it since. Number theory for crypto is the closest to useful I've ever seen.

I don't think the drop in applicants is anything for DCU to worry about, people are basing their expectations on the number of applicants during and shortly after the IT boom when everyone thought they could do a degree, get head hunted and make their first million by 26. Now people aren't sure what to do (so they do arts).

cooker3

I just think that people go into it without having an idea what it's really like hence the huge drop out in first year. The fact that Clancy is so terrible doesn't help either.
Thing is I think anyone who puts effort in can do well in CA, just of a matter of how motivated you truly are.

Will

I don't think the sole blame can be placed on just the maths element of the course. It's only one subject out of a whole range.

robby^5

cognos wrote: »

I don't buy the hard maths argument or the criticism of Clancy. I got a HC3 in maths and have never been good at it really but havn't had any problems with any maths content on the course and have never needed any help beyond lectures.

Well you see it's different for people who didnt do High Levels maths, the maths requirment is pretty low and the standard of maths in CA1 is pretty much the equivalent of higher level in the LC.

Hence people who get into the course having only taken ordinary level are already very much behind anyone who did higher level, hence I feel the requirement should be higher.

It's not the sole reason for failure in this course, but it was for me I passed everything except maths...

damnyanks

It's how its taught and what effort you put into it. I got a d3 in pass maths and graduated with maths as a minor (I did it fully to university level covering a variety of topics - primarily statistics)

I did nothing in school just got the thumb out when I went to college

cognos

robby^5 wrote: »

Well you see it's different for people who didnt do High Levels maths, the maths requirment is pretty low and the standard of maths in CA1 is pretty much the equivalent of higher level in the LC.

Agreed, I was basing what I said on the fact that in school I only ever just got by in maths without ever being great at it but getting by in higher level is clearly different from getting by in ordinary level.

I'd agree that the maths requirement should be higher, HD3 should definitely be sufficient to grasp anything in CA maths though.

cooker3

Will wrote: »

I don't think the sole blame can be placed on just the maths element of the course. It's only one subject out of a whole range.

No it's not the sole reason by any means but I believe I am right in saying it has the biggest failure rate in first year and probability is the same for 2nd year and so is the biggest reason for why CA has such a big drop out %.

Hauk

Well, I'm just going into 3rd year now. I had to repeat second year after passing everything in the first round of repeats, but then them screwing me over and having to repeat one module.

As a lot of people have said, I'd put it down to Maths. Clancy just flies through stuff in the class using set of all horses bollox, not really explaining anything. The best thing that ever happened to me with Maths was the Maths Learning Centre. I just went in there two weeks before the repeats and they talked me through the stuff I was sh*te at.

Myself and some of my college mates got royally screwed over with Probability in second year. ****ty lecturer, a mess of an "exam paper"(Example Question: <Insert lots of statistics here> Calculate the.") The what?


In saying that, I can't wait to get back and into third year :P

Hauk

H2G2

cognos wrote: »

Interesting that first round offers have EC at 310, anyone have any admissions figures for that?

It will only be 35 to 37, which is high considering it wasn't approved in time for the CAO handbook. Next year will be the real indicator of admission figures.

StickyMcGinty

Hauk wrote: »

Myself and some of my college mates got royally screwed over with Probability in second year. ****ty lecturer, a mess of an "exam paper"(Example Question: <Insert lots of statistics here> Calculate the.") The what?

we all had a tough Probability exam with the same lecturer. for every subject like probability theres another handy module that its easy to nail a first in.

you learn after second year that blaming lecturers isnt going to get you a good degree. every year has its dodgy lecturers, the key is to spot them early and work your arse off with your classmates and get through it.

its a hard 4 years, but when you walk into a well paid job that you really enjoy after you graduate you'll be looking back at CA with a different perspective

cooker3

As Hauk said the maths learning clinic is fantastic and is the the sole reason I got my 40% in maths in ca1. If everyone in the class went to it I imagine the failure rate would be pretty low. I think they should emphasise it much more and maybe get Clancy to attend it as well so he can see how it should be done

rugbug86

Will wrote: »

People go into the course thinking it will be something different than it is, and the low points gives the idea (well it did to me) that it would be a handy course to do. Boy was I wrong.

I think it's across the board in DCU, and is one of the main problems with the CAO system as it is based on demand rather than difficulty. Universities tend to control their intake by matriculation requirements, such as needing an OC3 in maths or whatever. This is where DCU fails IMO. I can't comment on CA as I didn't do it, but I got into DCU to study science with really crap results in my leaving cert physics, and I was accepted in biology having never studied it before.

And I agree - the maths learning centre is a fantastic resource.

Patricide

Ok going ot here but just a question here going into this course this year and im just wondering what campus is this on so i can book my accom.

cheers.

artanevilla

Probably should have read this before accepting today. :pac:

rugbug86

What do you mean what campus?

The DCU campus, on the Northsoide, close to the 'mun.

rugbug86

artanevilla wrote: »

Probably should have read this before accepting today. :pac:

Like most things if you put the work in you'll get through it. You don't need to work 24/7, but try to keep on top of the work as best you can, and talk to classmates/tutors/lecturers whenever you see yourself falling behind. Lecturers tend to be fairly approchable.

Good luck. And enjoy your 4 years in DCU - they'll be the best years of your life.

CuLT

CA dropout checking in

Did the IS stream, slowly lost interest. Felt the course was becoming less and less relevant to my interests as it progressed. I may go back to pick up a degree in a few years time, would like to do it in DCU, but I would like a computing course relevant to my interests by then.

Not enough diversity in computing courses these days. Too broad.

Patricide

rugbug86 wrote: »

What do you mean what campus?

The DCU campus, on the Northsoide, close to the 'mun.

Thats what i thought, I was told there was 4 dcu campus's scattered around dublin and a quick google earth seemed to confirm this so i said id check it. Cheers.

O and im a dropout already going back into college. I cant afford to drop out again or il be slaughtered by the folks.

markpb

Patricide wrote: »

Thats what i thought, I was told there was 4 dcu campus's scattered around dublin and a quick google earth seemed to confirm this so i said id check it. Cheers.

There's something very wrong with the maps you've been looking at. Perhaps you mean DIT which has campuses on Bolton St, Cathal Brugha St, Aungier St and a few others?

DCU only has two - one in Glasnevin/Santry/Ballymun (take your pick) and one in Citywest.

Anarking

The high drop out rate?



People


The lecturers are bad and the students are mutants, good god, such mutants should never have walked this earth.

Will

You are a DCU student... you are in my class... self loathing is a terrible thing my friend.

Anarking

I meant the students that arent handsome and debanoir like me.



Some of them, foook, ugly as the back end of the bus and do these troglodytes ever wash?

Darren1o1

Anarking wrote: »

I meant the students that arent handsome and debanoir like me.



Some of them, foook, ugly as the back end of the bus and do these troglodytes ever wash?

On the first of the semester

H2G2

markpb wrote: »

There's something very wrong with the maps you've been looking at. Perhaps you mean DIT which has campuses on Bolton St, Cathal Brugha St, Aungier St and a few others?

DCU only has two - one in Glasnevin/Santry/Ballymun (take your pick) and one in Citywest.

Well if you want to get pernickety about it, DCU’s “Linked Colleges” do represent ‘other’ campus. The linked colleges are: All Hallows, Mater Dei Institute and St. Patrick's College. So you could count them in addition to the Ryan Academy in CityWest.
But as there is little movement of people between these campuses, I think its fair to say that Markpb is right, there is really only one located in “Glasnevin/Santry/Ballymun (take your pick)”

NiSmO

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gamblitis

A1 in HL maths would be handy too. But not necessary though. :P


Doesn't make a difference what system ya go for tbh, if your gonna be programming at home just make sure all your compilers are working properly n such. The computer labs are usable from roughly 5am till 10.30 pm 4 if not 5 days a week and close early on weekends. 6ish. They are handy as they will have everything you will need for all modules and all programming you do.

NiSmO

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gamblitis

Yeah there is wireless everywhere so that won't be a problem. My opinion would be that a laptop would be a very handy asset. Contradictions welcome.

ghostdancer

can't argue with getting a laptop, especially seeing as LG01 is in the middle of being turned into offices, and L201 is undergoing building work, which could well also be offices, as if the labs situation wasn't bad enough.

NiSmO

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