Beijing: THE SUPERSTAR of the Olympics?

eagle eye

As above who do you see as the superstar of this Olympics?

Frankie Lee

Phelps or Bolt obviously, i'd go for Bolt.
Hopefully Darren Sutherland might come to the fore.

ironictoaster

Phelps.

eagle eye

Please leave a comment when you vote, I see there have been two votes without posting already.

Pride Fighter

Someone else. Maybe if Bolt gets 3 golds I would consider him ie adding the 200m and 4x100m relay. Hopefully the Hesh derails his 200 attempt:)

Lirange

Phelps.

His 200m WR domination was at least as impressive as Bolt in the 100 dash. 2 seconds ahead of the field is massive for that race. Add in his other victories, which included both dominating wins and gutsy nailbiters and it's an easy choice.

Bolt's race will probably go down as the peformance of the games for Athletics. But whatever temptation there might be for a backlash for the media frothing over Phelps ... he is the performer of the games for me. He is the best swimmer of all time.

Zaph

Bolt. Phelps achievements have been astonishing, but what Bolt did today defies belief. In an event that is often won and lost in 1/100th of a second, to be winding down with 15 metres to go and still smash the world record is beyond anything that has ever been seen before.

metaoblivia

I voted for Phelps. His domination in swimming is what does it for me. Bolt had a great race, but Phelps has had 7 great races.
Personally, Nastia Liukin is the superstar of my Olympics, but from an objective point of view, Bolt and certainly Phelps surpass her in achievement (although she still has 3 more legitimate medal opportunities. Depending on how she does, my mind may change).

robinph

Bolt, but I might change my mind before the end of the week,

Amz

I voted for Bolt.

I was a competitive swimmer and can't help but be impressed with Phelps, however Bolt's achievment in the 100metres was really astonishing!

ZiggyStardust

Bolt for me regardless of what he does in the 200m.
Maybe if Phelps had have broken the world record in the butterfly i might have been tempted :D:D

Lirange

ZiggyStardust wrote: »

Bolt for me regardless of what he does in the 200m.
Maybe if Phelps had have broken the world record in the butterfly i might have been tempted :D:D

7 out of 8 wins in world record time wasn't good enough?

The fact that he's versatile enough to win both the 100 metres butterfly and the 400 Metres Individual Medley is a great testament to his talent. No other swimmer in history has ever competed in both those events at an Olympic Games let alone won them both.

Kinetic^

Bolt!

High&Low

Phelps performance is incredible, but an athlete can never compete in 8 events, so it is not comparable, in addition swimming is a minority sport.

Bolt on the other hand competes in a sport with far more competition. Almost every able bodied person on the planet has at some stage run a sprint race, the very fastest continue to run and the very very fastest get to go to the Olympics. The fastest man on the planet is one of the only definite "...ests" (i.e. strongest, fastest etc) there is. Not every 100m winner would get that vote, but Bolt's dominance yesterday was incredible, so my vote goes to Bolt...

gordon_gekko

High&Low wrote: »

Phelps performance is incredible, but an athlete can never compete in 8 events, so it is not comparable, in addition swimming is a minority sport.

Bolt on the other hand competes in a sport with far more competition. Almost every able bodied person on the planet has at some stage run a sprint race, the very fastest continue to run and the very very fastest get to go to the Olympics. The fastest man on the planet is one of the only definite "...ests" (i.e. strongest, fastest etc) there is. Not every 100m winner would get that vote, but Bolt's dominance yesterday was incredible, so my vote goes to Bolt...

athletics is a minority sport as much as swimming is if you compare them to soccer , dont get what your saying there

minxie

still gotta be phelps for me... outstanding...:D

robinph

Lirange wrote: »

The fact that he's versatile enough to win both the 100 metres butterfly and the 400 Metres Individual Medley is a great testament to his talent. No other swimmer in history has ever competed in both those events at an Olympic Games let alone won them both.

Is it that unusual for a swimmer to be able to compete at both a 100 and a 400 event? Wasn't paying that much attention to who was doing exactly what event, couldn't even tell you what ones it was that Phelps did even though I saw them all, but it always seemed to be the same names appearing on the starting lineups for several different events. Phelps is better at multiple different strokes than others is the main difference between him and other swimmers as far as I can tell.

You won't see Bolt or any other 100 finalist being competitive at an 800 or 400 on the track.

Nolanger

Forget Schelps - if darts was an Olympics sport Phil Talyor would have won more gold medals than any swimmer.

Pherekydes

I voted Bolt.

If Liu Xiang wins the Hurdles in a new WR I'd be inclined to change my mind, perhaps.

Tristram

Zhang Ning was incredible imo.

Huggles

I voted for Phelps, the man is just a swimming power house!

juvenal

I think it's too early to give a definitive answer, but I think it will be difficult to overshadow Phelps' achievements in the pool.

There's no disputing that the chap is phenomenal, but the way some of the US media are calling him the greatest ever Olympian/athlete is way over the top. His dominance in the pool is not up for debate, but as has been pointed out in various ways, swimming lends itself to multiple medals and dominance across various stroke styles.

At Beijing there were 25 world records set, 14 in the men and 11 in the women. Advances in pool and suit technology have helped this, and if this was in track and field WADA would be into the Birds Nest before you could say "drug-test". I'm not for one minute suggesting that any of the swimmers are using performance-enhancing drugs, but the playing field that the swimmers is judged is far different from any other. All sports are different and trying to compare them is a subjective, and often a futile, excercise.

For example here is a list of the top multiple swimming medal winners in Beijing:

8|Michael Phelps (USA)
6|Natalie Coghlin (USA)
4|Kirsty Coventry (ZIM), Ryan Lochte (USA), Libby Trickett (AUS)
3|Kosuke Kitajima (JPN), Jason Lezak (USA), Alain Bernard (FRA), Aaron Peirsol(USA), László Cseh (HUN), Eamon Sullivan (AUS), Katie Hoff (USA), Rebecca Soni (USA), Jessica Schipper (AUS), Stephanie Rice (AUS)

I'm a big fan of the swimming, but no-one can seriously argue that any of the other Olympic sports allow that many medals to be won at multiple disciplines.

I think if Bolt wins the 200m and 4x100m with the sort of dominance he won the 100m, then he can certainly be held up there with Phelps.

Lirange

That's a very fair point. Also, Phelps has an advantage in relays because he's from the U.S.

But look at it in terms of individual events. Phelps won 5 individual events. 4 in world record time. The most anyone else won was two events. Nobody in the history of the sport has competed in as many events as Micheal did. He won each of them. Spitz competed in seven. Katie Hoff tied the women's record by competing in seven. But she didn't win any gold medals.

Thorpe was considered by many to be the best of his generation at one time. He won a single individual gold at his first games and two individual golds four years later. Phelps downed Thorpe's once seemingly untouchable 200 freestyle world record last year (before the LZR suit).

juvenal

I'm not disputing that Phelps won more golds than anyone else, or that he competed in more events, all I'm saying is that you cannot compare swimming to any of the other Olympic sports, it's like comparing archery and the pole-vault.

Spitz claims (and obviously it doesn't really matter) that if there was the 50m free in 1972 he would've won that as well, which would have given him 8. My point is not about how much better Phelps is than the rest, but because he won 8 golds he's not an automatic choice for the superstar or greatest, despite what NBC would like you to believe for television ratings.

Michael Phelps is an incredible athlete, no question, but it's not comparing like with like. IMO a single olympic gold in any sport is a phenomenal achievement, especially when it's in a truly amateur sport - Phelps' 8 golds, even as a professional, are truly incredible. It also helps that he appears to be a very likeable chap, down-to-eath and even dorky! The backlash against him in some quarters is as a result of the US media's jingoism. Sure we've (Ireland) twenty medals in the Olympic Games, and four of those we "won" in the same swim meet - Atlanta 1996. That's one example of the difference between the sports.

IMO Phelps is probably the greatest swimmer of all time, but not the greatest athlete and not yet the Superstar of these Olympics.

Lirange

juvenal wrote: »

The backlash against him in some quarters is as a result of the US media's jigoism.

You make valid points. But on this .... it should be irrelevant to everyone that's assessing him as an athlete. It should have limited effect on those watching outside America. By jingoism do you mean over saturated coverage? Overstating his legacy/accomplishments? What are they doing different that others would not be doing?

I was in Bali during September of 2000 during the Sydney Olympics. They had all the major Australian papers in print there. Their television and print media coverage was appallingly exclusionary to all but Australian athletes. Reports about Olympians such as Redgrave and Johnson were buried. Thorpe was God.

KJ_2008

Bolt was stunning, but it's got to be Phelps....surely?

Guy:Incognito

Nolanger wrote: »

Forget Schelps - if darts was an Olympics sport Phil Talyor would have won more gold medals than any swimmer.

So Phelps has more medals than Bolt but Phil Taylor would be better than him, so woudl that not mean he's better than every other athlete there (taylor) because as far as I know, phelps has the most medals of anyone there.

BTW how would Taylor win more golds? At 1 gold per Oylmipics, I cant see him managing 14 Olympics (Phelps has 13 iirc) . Thats over 50 years for Taylor without losing . He'll be aroudn a while but in 50 years he'll be dead, never mind winnign things.


Phelps for me btw.

juvenal

Lirange wrote: »

You make valid points. But on this .... it should be irrelevant to everyone that's assessing him as an athlete. It should have limited effect on those watching outside America. By jingoism do you mean over saturated coverage? Overstating his legacy/accomplishments? What are they doing different that others would not be doing?

I was in Bali during September of 2000 during the Sydney Olympics. They had all the major Australian papers in print there. Their television and print media coverage was appallingly exclusionary to all but Australian athletes. Reports about Olympians such as Redgrave and Johnson were buried. Thorpe was God.

Every country focuses on their own competitors, look at RTÉ/BBC etc. I raised this point only as some people will say Phelps is not the greatest or not the biggest star due to their annoyance with the media coverage, rather than assessing his feats and athleticism. I agree the media coverage is irrelevant when it comes to analysing his performances and impact on sport.

eunified61

eagle eye wrote: »

As above who do you see as the superstar of this Olympics?

I think that the women who come back to sport after having kids, people who come back from injury or people who overcome some adversary to compete are the stars of sport. Seen a woman in her thirties playing badminton for Germany thought she was the best athlete I've seen

eagle eye

Ok, you give no name so obvously you are voting for the third option. If a name crops up a number of times I will see if I can change the poll to include that person.

moe_sizlak

garry o toole the swimming professor seemed quite suspicious of bolts run and it does seem amazing what jamaica has done in the sprints , was listening to anton savage in the car this evening discussing the jamaicans with the sports editor of the tribune , that frazer girl who took gold in the 100m has come out of nowhere , apparently jamacia does not have as stringent a drugs programe as many other countries

juvenal

moe_sizlak wrote: »

garry o toole the swimming professor seemed quite suspicious of bolts run and it does seem amazing what jamaica has done in the sprints , was listening to anton savage in the car this evening discussing the jamaicans with the sports editor of the tribune , that frazer girl who took gold in the 100m has come out of nowhere , apparently jamacia does not have as stringent a drugs programe as many other countries

I'm not an athletics expert at all but here's my €0.02.

I have yet to see any of the athletics expert question the veracity of either 100m winners. Correct me if I'm wrong.

Bolt hardly came from nowhere, his pedigree is well established, and he was a superstar in the Junior ranks for several years. He was a Junior World Champion in 2002 at the age of 15, was the first junior ever to run under 20.00 for the 200m, and after Athens had NCAA colleges queuing up to offer him scholarships. He was a silver medallist in the 2007 World's in Osaka, so this sort of a performance is hardly surprising.

I don't know a whole lot about Shelly-Ann Fraser, but it was interesting to hear some commentators remark that she had no baggage going into the Olympics. I think a lot of the sprint events are as much about mental strength as athletic ability. Look at Tyson Gay, who didn't even feature in the final, or Asafa Powell who was well off the medals. Before the Olympics everyone was calling it a 1/2/3 between these two and Bolt, it was just a case of where they ended up. In these events a small mistake will end your chances as there's no time to make up the ground.

I'm a huge fan of O'Toole's analysis, but I think his expertise in swimming would make him more qualified to discuss the topic of performance-enhancing substances in that sport.

eagle eye

moe_sizlak wrote: »

garry o toole the swimming professor seemed quite suspicious of bolts run and it does seem amazing what jamaica has done in the sprints , was listening to anton savage in the car this evening discussing the jamaicans with the sports editor of the tribune , that frazer girl who took gold in the 100m has come out of nowhere , apparently jamacia does not have as stringent a drugs programe as many other countries

I didn't hear him mention that, but he has no clue about athletics and less in fact than I'd have given him credit for if what you say is true. Theres no question over Bolt.

Pride Fighter

juvenal wrote: »

I'm a huge fan of O'Toole's analysis, but I think his expertise in swimming would make him more qualified to discuss the topic of performance-enhancing substances in that sport.

He is a qualified doctor. Thats why he knows about all drugs and not just those related to swimming.

Pride Fighter

There was a French cyclist who finished 4th in the road race at the age of 49. I thought that was incredible.

juvenal

Pride Fighter wrote: »

He is a qualified doctor. Thats why he knows about all drugs and not just those related to swimming.

I'm well aware he is a doctor, and as I already said I've a lot of time for his thoughts, he's probably my favourite analyst on RTÉ.

I haven't seen RTÉ's coverage (most unfortunately), but it sounded as if he was engaging in a little "swimming-v-athletics" around the doping issue. Perhaps it was after Coghlan giving him a hard time the other day? If this wasn't the case, then I stand corrected. I can only go on what the members are posting here.:o

moe_sizlak

juvenal wrote: »

I'm not an athletics expert at all but here's my €0.02.

I have yet to see any of the athletics expert question the veracity of either 100m winners. Correct me if I'm wrong.

Bolt hardly came from nowhere, his pedigree is well established, and he was a superstar in the Junior ranks for several years. He was a Junior World Champion in 2002 at the age of 15, was the first junior ever to run under 20.00 for the 200m, and after Athens had NCAA colleges queuing up to offer him scholarships. He was a silver medallist in the 2007 World's in Osaka, so this sort of a performance is hardly surprising.

I don't know a whole lot about Shelly-Ann Fraser, but it was interesting to hear some commentators remark that she had no baggage going into the Olympics. I think a lot of the sprint events are as much about mental strength as athletic ability. Look at Tyson Gay, who didn't even feature in the final, or Asafa Powell who was well off the medals. Before the Olympics everyone was calling it a 1/2/3 between these two and Bolt, it was just a case of where they ended up. In these events a small mistake will end your chances as there's no time to make up the ground.

I'm a huge fan of O'Toole's analysis, but I think his expertise in swimming would make him more qualified to discuss the topic of performance-enhancing substances in that sport.

garry o toole briefly commented on bolt , he didnt comment on shelley ann frazer , that was a tribune sports writer on the last word yesterday

besides athletics has a closit full of skeletons compared to swimming when it comes to cheating, there is no comparrison
i would give more creedance to what o toole would say compared to coughlan or mullet man beside him

juvenal

moe_sizlak wrote: »

garry o toole briefly commented on bolt , he didnt comment on shelley ann frazer , that was a tribune sports writer on the last word yesterday

besides athletics has a closit full of skeletons compared to swimming when it comes to cheating, there is no comparrison
i would give more creedance to what o toole would say compared to coughlan or mullet man beside him

So because athletics has had more athletes banned for using drugs than swimming it means the Jamaicans must be on something?

juvenal

On the original topic, South African swimmer Natalie du Toit finished 16th in the women's 10km Open Water swim.

Maybe not a superstar per se, but if there's such a thing as Olympic spirit that's a good example.

Other contenders are the two Croats who lent their boat to the Danish pair when their mast snapped and they went on to win the gold medal! Pierre de Coubertin medal ftw.

robinph

Bolt.

No question about it now.

juvenal

I think if Bolt and Jamaica win the 4x100m relay with a WR it may seal it as the Bolt Olympics.

Obviously the US meeja won't push it as hard as Phelps, but they're certainly comparable. Phelps' is a phenom, Bolt is a phenom. It's splitting hairs after that.

bing3

Bolt for me now.
Phelps 100 fly win seemed a bit dubious to me (not that 7 golds would be a disgrace) but his haul was expected; Bolts was hoped for.
Just hope Husain doesnt become too overbearing for his own good as it looks like there wont be anyone fit to chase his shadow for the foreseeable...

eagle eye

I think what Bolt done today was just awesome. To break that world record and running into a head wind was just incredible. Its still 50/50 though. I think if Jamaica win the 4x100 with a world record that it will certainly be Bolt for me.

eunified61

eagle eye wrote: »

As above who do you see as the superstar of this Olympics?

Changed my mind it has to be the Horse's dealer

eagle eye

eunified61 wrote: »

Changed my mind it has to be the Horse's dealer

Lol, Bolt is pretty much guaranteed a third gold medal, but it will be hard to break the world record when there is no team pushing them.

eagle eye

Well its definitely Bolt for me now, three world records and three Olympic Golds in Track and Field is just awesome. Phelps missed out on a world record in his events so Bolt is the perfectionist for me.

kwestfan08

Bolt for sure.

He may just be the saviour of track and field